Lurker Lounge now a hack site

[Nicodemus Phaulkon]

Because, certainly no one with a mind clear of fog would write this:

I'd remember that Dii.net is run mostly by women, and no offense to Griselda, you gals tend to like gossip, conflict, and the "who's cheating on who" stories. Not bashing, I'm just saying.

I speak for myself, but I'm growing VERY tired of your opinions and innuendo. One would hope that you're rapidly approaching "Strike Three" with the Admins as well.

[Orbert]

The Single Player forum at D2.net is incredible. There are so many members, so many regular posters and guests as well, and yet the amount of flaming/crap/etc. is very, very low. It is often the only D2.net forum worth spending any amount of time at.

Orbert

[Jarulf]

The Single Player forum at D2.net is incredible.  There are so many members, so many regular posters and guests as well, and yet the amount of flaming/crap/etc. is very, very low. It is often the only D2.net forum worth spending any amount of time at.

Orbert

Actually many of the forums there are quite good, with nice people and good discussions. That is not the problem though, it is the management that is the problem in my opinion.

[lemekim]

The Single Player forum at D2.net is incredible.  There are so many members, so many regular posters and guests as well, and yet the amount of flaming/crap/etc. is very, very low. It is often the only D2.net forum worth spending any amount of time at.

Orbert

Actually many of the forums there are quite good, with nice people and good discussions. That is not the problem though, it is the management that is the problem in my opinion.

I share the same opinion... Although sometimes I do find some very unpleasant posters, I also see some very good posters as well. So in that respect it's not much different from another diablo site... But the management, IMHO is where the problem lies.

[Bolty]

I'd remember that Dii.net is run mostly by women, and no offense to Griselda, you gals tend to like gossip, conflict, and the "who's cheating on who" stories.  Not bashing, I'm just saying.

* DUCK! *

Let me reiterate that I am NOT responsible for things posted by other people here.

Hey Conner, good luck buddy. ;)

Edit: I'll just restate this again - Conner, hoof-in-mouth disease can spread to humans! I'd watch out!

-Bolty

[Conner Macleod]

No prob, I'm gone.

Diabloii.net is run by inept people who have no idea the power they have, and further, they are not a friend of Blizzard, but another enabler of hackers because they refuse to acknowledge that they lack the knowledge of the hacking world. They allow trades on their site (commonly) of things not legit. They might champion themselves as legit, but they are far from it. They are not stupid at Dii.net, they are far from that. They are merely ignorant (which means DO NOT KNOW) of the way it works in the modern realms.

Let me state this - I posted way too many foolish things, and I'll pay the price for it. No need to reply to this post, and all those that post in favor of my leaving are the most vulgar people I've ever met, you know who you are. I've gotten a few hate mails and posts about it.

I guess I'm not welcome. Not a big deal.

Darth Vader once said, Turn to the Dark Side... Join me and we will rule the empire. If many of the people on this site continue their attitude problems, then you will never enjoy this game. Since this is the most legit site available, and many people on it are nasty human beings, they will no doubt make the D2 world a terrible place to enjoy gaming, while ridiculing the illegit players. The point is that we are trying to spread the word here. There is no call for being nasty to other legit players. We champion ourselves as legit players.

Maybe I should become an Ith User, buy from Ebay, trade for 40/15ias blue jewels, and then install Maphack. Maybe I should trade for 290 poison damage charms. Maybe I should buy a dupe technique and make the game impossible for anyone to enjoy. Not like I would do this, I respect the game further than a handful of ruffiants. But the point is, if you treat everyone with an opinion this way, you will need to buy another game.

Point is, get a grip. It's an internet community. What I say, well, who cares? What you say, who cares? No need to attack everyone personally. In my usual "too-much" fashion, I'll log off, and good luck in 1.10 should it ever come.

P.S. Bolty - you have one helluva good site.

[TheDragoon]

Maybe I should become an Ith User, buy from Ebay, trade for 40/15ias blue jewels, and then install Maphack. Maybe I should trade for 290 poison damage charms. Maybe I should buy a dupe technique and make the game impossible for anyone to enjoy.

That'll teach us!

[FenrisWulf]

Originally posted by Conner Macleod
No need to attack everyone personally.

Of course, attacking people generally isn't much better. :) I happen to like diabloii.net, and I have many friends there who aren't Lurkers in disguise; having you dismiss every single one of them as...well, pick about any negative stereotype about your common BNetter, you used a ton of 'em...I can see why people might start sending you angry letters.

Gaile is a lot of fun, by the way, if you take the time to get to know her. Elly is a bit more reserved, and stricter about the rules, so I can see how that might turn some people off; I got into a bit of trouble about the offsite linking thing with her, but she did notify me by PM and so on, thus I have no complaints. Haven't actually met Flux. Regardless, I don't think it's justified, nor polite, to go off calling them "inept". Perhaps "misunderstood". :)

So...yeah, how about that local sports team?

[Kyrene]

How arrogant  and self-centered.

I say let them rot in their arrogance and ignorance.

Oh, and hi all. Hadn't noticed the board changes and had to re-register (for the 3rd... 4th... nth time).

[Ruvanal]

Kyrene,

Just to make sure that you realise, the admins at diabloii.net were also classifing the Amazon Basin as a hack site also. I ran into this earlier than the incident that Juarlf ran into concerning the LL.

Ruvanal

[FenrisWulf]

Originally posted by Kyrene
I say let them rot in their arrogance and ignorance.

Ah, yes. Because we're all arrogant and stupid over at diabloii.net. <_< Remember, generalizations are bad. Understanding that, while the Lurker Lounge is certainly not a hack site, it definitely can be construed as competition to dii.net, and that though you may disagree with the philosophy that there is competition between two sites striving for the common goal of a more profound understanding of this game that we play, this is still a valid business model, misguided as it may be, and that if you really want to effect a change in this policy, it would be better to contact the administrators and point out valid reasons that their site would benefit if they amended their ways, instead of insulting them in a very unbecoming manner and giving them further reason to dislike this fine site...is good.

And, um, long, convoluted sentences are bad. :blink:

[Kyrene]

Just to make sure that you realise, the admins at diabloii.net were also classifing the Amazon Basin as a hack site also.&nbsp; I ran into this earlier than the incident that Juarlf ran into concerning the LL.

Ruv,

No worries here mate. I was last regged at dii.blah.gossip.net during 1.03. I have never regretted leaving.

Oh, and, yeah I got the innuendo (actually it was blatantly stated) in Elly's 'axe grinding' sniffing (sniveling?) reply. She actaully mentioned LL and AB by name in her P.S.

Way back when (IIRC Jan/Feb 2002) I wrote a little Avg Dam Calc with info gotten from here, AB, D2Realms and the german WSC site (mostly Heri for the Jab stuff back then). I approached AB, D2Realms and dii.net (I can't recall if I approached LL) for linkage, since I had worked hard on it and wanted the peeps out there to have a nice lil tool to help them decide between axe A and sword B. To date I have gotten 11.6K hits on the download page and it is even Googled, but have yet to receive a reply from Elly to say that they will not indeed have any need to link to it. No great loss, as I lost the source code recently and won't be continueing the project anyhow (WSC does a better job anyway for weapon speeds), but it was just once again an indication of the rot that has set in at dii.

Perhaps I give them to much credit on the download page:

DiabloII.Net (Some good, some bad, but overall Elly, Gaile and Flux run a good site)

;)

[Jarulf]

Understanding that, while the Lurker Lounge is certainly not a hack site, it definitely can be construed as competition to dii.net,

You must have missed or missunderstood either this thread or the one over at diabloii.net resulting in this one. Basically they appear to have a list of many sites that are AUTOMATICALLY blanked out after a while and that list appearantly (according to Elly) has hack and cheat sites on it. Links to Tommi's page, and these forums triggered in another thread (linked to from the thread mentioned in diabloii.net) which caused all this to start.

As for thinking fan site is about competition and being a winner, that seems like a completely rediculous point of view in my opinion, but by all means, anyone is free to feel that way but if that include deliberately preventing people from finding information or geting question answered, something has gone wrong.

[Kyrene]

Ah, yes. Because we're all arrogant and stupid over at diabloii.net.&nbsp; <_< Remember, generalizations are bad.

Fenris,

All power to you. However, I could probably make the point that if you continue to waste you time (relatively speaking, to you it might be worth your while) posting at dii.net you are being stupid. By the way I used the word ignorant, not stupid as I do realise that many posters at dii.net are not the former, but rather the latter for their 'stick my head in the sand' about the management of the forum they post on attitudes.

Let me make an example. If for instance LL had all the greatest posters in the world, with all the most accurate information and guides about the game, but the admin and management of the forum were utterly draconian, I would refuse to post here. By posting here, I would actually be giving them the 'green light' to continue in their ways. I would rather then take my business (clickage paying for ad revenue) elsewhere, somewhere more deserving of my limited knowledge.

As always YMMV.

[FenrisWulf]

@Jarulf:
I may well have missed out on some key features of this argument, as I've read the entire thing in spurts (and thus details have begun to blur rather radically), and I'm also moderately vociferously pro-diabloii.net, on account of the great times I've had with posters at most of the forums, most significantly the Druid, Single Player, and Pal Forums. And I definitely hold great respect for Gaile, as she's truly a very nice person who cares about what most of us think; Elly I'm able to vouch for less convincingly, as my interactions with her have been sufficiently painless (except for my offsite linking issue that came up a while ago :P) but a bit more detached and less friendly. Regardless, I do like them, and this may affect my judgement slightly.

But I seem to recall that there was a clause in one of the rules concerning offsite posting that advertisement of "competing sites" would not be permitted. Again, not debating the validity of this commandment, just the fact that it's there. Thus, I only interpret the auto-blanking of the Lurker Lounge and Amazon Basin through use of the Hack Site list not to be any moral judgement on either of these sites, but rather an expedient method of enforcing said rule pertaining to site competition. Please correct me if this is nonsensical.

Trust me, I do feel that this is an ill-informed decision on the part of the diabloii.net administration; if this summary dismissal of so many valuable sources of knowledge had not been in place, then I'd like to think that many of our most valuable posters, such as yourself and other pioneers into the depths of the game, would not have migrated to places afar, but rather timeshared a bit. However, I don't feel that it's appropriate to lodge such personal attacks against the owners of the diabloii.net site, nor the members of it, in protest to this policy, as has happened throughout almost the entirety of this thread. There are simply better, more effective ways, to deal with such problems.

EDIT:
@Kyrene:
Too much value placed in SATs during my youth has made me jump at obvious synonymous conclusions (sage:intelligent::ignorant:?). :P I'll try to regard nuances a bit more carefully in future.

To be honest, perhaps one of the reasons that I cannot understand some of the assertions lodged against diabloii.net staff on the subject of offsite linking is that the policy really hasn't touched me in any momentous way. I was slapped on the wrist once, yes...however, I still continue to link to appropriate sites, domestic or foreign, if the situation warrants it, and I've not come up against any large amount of resistance that would warrant labeling the administration as a "draconian" regime. And again, I'm on fairly friendly terms with the admins, which also casts them in a more positive light. Our differing opinions may stem from this; regardless, I don't feel that bandying about insults really solves anything. :P

As a note, I've never felt that I've wasted my time at diabloii.net, any more than I've been wasting my time here or at the Amazon Basin. Well, except during Finals Week. But that's a topic for another day. :)

[Kyrene]

Fenris,

Therefore my generalised statement. I know full well that those that are neither ignorant nor arrogant won't be rotting. Yourself as a prime example.

Unfortunately, from my point of view, a kind of dry rot has set in with and/or from the Elly et al side and the symptoms of that has verily filtered through to the site/s they manage. If one is sure of ones product (in this case website) and it indeed delivers what it promises, no amount of off-site linkage or indeed anything else on God's earth will lure away your loyal client (poster/viewer) base. I strongly suspect that dii.net admin/management are not that confident in their site (both in content, deliverables and stance) and therefore take any and all steps neccesary to not lose any clientelle, even to the detriment of those same clients.

I often compare dii.net to a rag-mag like People™ magazine (having some truth among a lot of lies), whereas AB and LL are along the lines of scientific journals (some lies among a lot of truth). Which would you rather read?

[Roland]

...I seem to remember a "history" with DII.Net, a long time ago. But, I can't recall just what it was about! Damn this faulty memory. :D

[Roland]

So yea, diabloii.net is a great site, but there are a lot of immature folks out there, and sometimes one feels like babysitting. As a result, some guests are uneasy and tension errupts causing general discomfort for all.

The Lounge is a great site. DiabloII.Net is just a full site. Full of what, I'll hold my tongue about. ;)

And I was mostly commenting on the quality of their guides. About the ONLY thing DII.Net is good for is obscure, inside information. And, more often than not, that information changes by the time it becomes relevant, so it's an uphill battle for them, and hardly worth reading.

The glory days of DII.Net were back before even the Closed Beta. By the time D2 was released, they had lived out their usefulness. The only thing left to talk about, really, is strategy and game mechanics. Between the Lounge and the Arreat Summit (formerly the Chaos Sanctuary), I have everything I need. As does just about anyone else.

*shrugs* Just my two cents on the issue. Disagree all you like; I'd expect an old-timer to their to defend them. Won't change my mind one lick about the "quality" you can find their. I don't doubt there's a few hidden gems. I'd be very surprised if there weren't. However, those few gems aren't worth digging through mountains of manure (that make you sterile and senile, to boot) when I've been residing in a veritable gold mine since before the D2 Closed Beta. ;) See my point?

[Roland]

They're a walking encyclopedia of useless information. Whereas the Lounge is your Encyclopedia Brittanica, DII.Net is a cross between Mad Magazine and National Enquirer.

There's an old saying, common among English teachers: quality, not quantity. Mayhap DII.Net should study that phrase. If they can lose their egos long enough to bother, that is.

[Jarulf]

> And I definitely hold great respect for Gaile, as she's
>truly a very nice person who cares about what most of
>us think; Elly I'm able to vouch for less convincingly, as
>my interactions with her have been sufficiently painless
>(except for my offsite linking issue that came up a while
>ago :P) but a bit more detached and less friendly.
>Regardless, I do like them, and this may affect my
>judgement slightly.

Bah, I used to think they were different too and some nicer than others, but it is just a matter of time it seems until you see they are all alike. To me, it just happens to be with bad experience which just makes me not like anyone of them. That is easilly solved though, I just avoid having any private contact with them :)

Do note that just because the admins might not be on your "I love you people" list, does not mean the site or forums might not have nice people.

Since I don't see how hosting a fan site can end up in a competition, I have simply stoped contribution to the competition in a way that means anyone "win" (competition is all about winning no? Why else have a competition). I simply resport to more chit-chat type of posts an more non directly game related posts.

>But I seem to recall that there was a clause in one of
>the rules concerning offsite posting that
>advertisement of "competing sites" would not be
>permitted. Again, not debating the validity of this
>commandment, just the fact that it's there. Thus, I
>only interpret the auto-blanking of the Lurker Lounge
>and Amazon Basin through use of the Hack Site list
>not to be any moral judgement on either of these
>sites, but rather an expedient method of enforcing
>said rule pertaining to site competition. Please correct
>me if this is nonsensical.

It wasn't about the posting "rules". If they simply wanted to automatically remove all links, fine, but they don't do that. You can post tons of links to almost anywere without it being removed (replaced by **** really). That is appearantly reserved for a list where they put up site they appearantly consider hack or cheat sites or have bene reported in some way (that is based on what Elly said in the thread among other things). It has thus NOTHING to do with the rules.

What started the discussion was when someone wondered what had happen to the links in a thread with information about faster run/walk info (I think that was the subject). People having posted noted the links had been to sites such as the LL forums, Tommi's page with faster run walk info and so on. People was wondering why those sites (and not many others) got that special treatement. In comes Elly and mods talking about grinding of axes, conspiracy thought, in an all defensive way calling it "ugly" and all such.

Fact is, despite the rules, there has never been any problem providing links to relevant information or in answering questions on the forum. Both mods and AND admins have in the past posted in threads with such links allread in them with no deleting of them for example. That was what people (and at least me) through was strange, that some of those links suddenly turned into ****s. Providing information or answering questions is hardly "advertising" sites and such although appearantly it is supposed to be taken that litterally.

It seems strange that still MANY threads in the statistics forum have links to all sort of places without having them deleted, despite the mod speicifcally due to the thread in question feeling the need to make a sticky threead claiming ALL links are banned and will be removed. Oh well, I don't care. It gets a bit silly when questions from people seeking advice or help has to be answered with "sorry, this site doesn't have that info and we can't tell you were to find such info", or when such posts lead to a whole discussion on how to instead use ones profile in various constrictive ways to get arround the problem and help people out.

The fact that a mod also jumps in starting to discuss creidts and such (in a not always true manner on top of that) i something I won't even comment on since it had nothing to do with the issue at all.


>Trust me, I do feel that this is an ill-informed decision
>on the part of the diabloii.net administration; if this
>summary dismissal of so many valuable sources of
>knowledge had not been in place, then I'd like to think
>that many of our most valuable posters, such as
>yourself and other pioneers into the depths of the
>game, would not have migrated to places afar, but
>rather timeshared a bit.


Sorry, I really don't understand the above or what you try to say, my english is not always the best :(


> However, I don't feel that it's
>appropriate to lodge such personal attacks against
>the owners of the diabloii.net site, nor the members
>of it, in protest to this policy, as has happened
>throughout almost the entirety of this thread.

I can't talk about anyone else but it has virtually nothing to do about any policy at all!!! It has everything to do with the attitude, acting and general behaviour (often through other means than posting in the actual forums) of the admins.

> There
>are simply better, more effective ways, to deal with
>such problems.

You mean we are not allowed to discuss something at another place (at a site that is NOT the one in question) just because you feel there are other ways to "deal" with something you have obviously no idea what it is all about and obviously don't have the whole understanding of?