Lurker Lounge now a hack site

[FoxBat]

Their site is the best and largest so you shoud be honourd to be there and be greatfull that they spend so much tim on it. With all that work put in others should not benefit by having a link (even if in the forum as help to someone asking for information) to their site.

I wonder if advertising revenues from # of hits is an unadmitted factor. Sounds like the old story of Microsoft Gas only for Microsoft Cars.

[Pu uhonua]

I just like the lower idiot count here at the Lounge sooooooooooo much better.  Gaile and Elly and Flux don't want to attract idiots, but their popularity simply draws them like a flame draws moths.

Sort of like The Lounge back in Dii's heyday . . . and during the LoD Beta.

I just can't stress how important a low idiot count is to my continued intrest in reading LL forums. I've tried on many occasions to read either Blizzards or Dii's forums... but I just can't do it. I can instantly feel my brain turning into vegetable matter. My frontal lobe siezes up and I begin to wonder how we ever learned to control fire.

Of course, it's not Dii's fault. I visit their site all the time... I just have to stay away from the forums.

[CelticHound]

Ya know, I came to the Lounge back when it was still on network54. (Due to some fanfic by Ronin that I'd really liked and someone on alt.games.diablo mentioned that it was also on the Lounge.) Huh - one of the last threads was a post count - I had 250 back then - about 1/6th as many as Occhi... (Urg! Just spent a half hour looking at old threads.)

At times I've been a bit taken aback by some things here. But I have to admit that people like Pete do act like a dose of chlorine in the gene pool. :P

Right now, I like the metaphor that the LL is an ecology of ideas - in some ways, a harsh, Darwinian one. That's what makes it so valuable - the strongest/best ideas survive. I don't know if that's what Bolty originally intended, but it's an interesting result.

dii.net must run under some other baseline, but I haven't figured out what it is.

-- CH

[lemekim]

I pointed out a huge number of holes in the rules, and got plenty of flames, as expected. (Hi Grumpy, I very much appreciated your friendly input to that thread!)   But funnily enough, no one answered up when I reminded one of the folks there that a legit set of rules that included maphack . . . was completely broken.

You are mistaken Occhi... Maphack is banned by private dueling rules. Sure, people still use it outside of dueling, it's quite hard to stop them when no one is around. But in duels themselves, especially moderated tournaments, it's strictly enforced.

Oh, and maybe you would be interested to know that pretty much the entire pvp forum (the people who made up the knowledgeable core at least) picked up and created their own forums/site :) There was a big brawl, and even Jarulf stopped by at one point, but got flamed by Elly Gaile in the usual fashion - Reply, Insult, Lock thread so no rebuttal is possible. <_<

[Jarulf]

>I then went and had some fun with a nice angry young
>legit and modder called Apocalypse Demon, who I really
>think means well,


Apoc is actually quite OK, although slightly extreme in some views or discussions.

>Gaile and the Gang do pretty good work, in general,
>and have a good site.

I agree, that does not mean you have to like the way some of them run the site and their general view on things. You don't have to either like it all or nothing. I have for example a very different view on different admins there.

>Gaile and Elly and Flux don't want to attract idiots, but
>their popularity simply draws them like a flame draws
>moths.

diabloii.net want to attract people. That almost seems to be the main point, to have as many people as possible. That is why they can't understand why someone would not like to have their guide (for example) anywere else and why people should be sooo thankfull for it to have the most readers anywere and so on.

Oh well, now I am geting more and more nonobjective and biased :)

[Jarulf]

I wonder if advertising revenues from # of hits is an unadmitted factor.&nbsp; Sounds like the old story of Microsoft Gas only for Microsoft Cars.

Of course hits is a big thing and so is add revenues (just check the Announcement in the forums) and no wonder, must cost quite a lot to run that site, just imagine the bandwidth for example. I never understood why they need one million different domain names though :)

On the other hand, being paranoid and thinking that just because someone post information to some other site, people will go LESS to their own site simply is not nessecary. On the contrary. People KNOW you get good info in their forums and then come to them (and the site) more. Puting the head into the sand pretending there is no other D2 site out there is just follishly. But hey, it is their call.

[lemekim]

Oh well, now I am geting more and more nonobjective and biased :)

diabloii.net is great at uniting such different groups of players as lurkers and pvpers in one common opinion :D

About the bandwidth cost - they are not being truthful about their figures... When they mention their monthly bill, I think this includes all their sites, and not just diabloii.net. I am in good standing with an owner of a huge site, dslreports.com, and his bandwidth costs are about 1/5 of what elly/gaile told us, while the daily posts on his 200-odd forums outnumber the whole rpgforums.net day post count by a big margin. Truly something is amiss, don't you think?

[edit: didn't realize he had 200 boards now]

[Conner Macleod]

Top Ten Reasons to Avoid Diabloii.net at all costs.

10. Like I would actually make reasons

Come on, it's a lame site. The mods couldn't recognize a true hacker if they were given a formal introduction. The people on Lurker are 10,000 times the player that the average user on that site are about, it's not worth the worry. I used to trade on their forums, but their mods are so incompetent they can't recognize shopbotted from slopbotted. Truly the most incompetent moderators to ever moderate "legit trades" in the business. I think it's all about power trips in their own world, and I avoid even casual posting there. I only log in there if I can't get onto Battle.net hoping they have an answer - which is usually right after GF posts on Battle.net.

They've gone from a legit forum to a tolerant forum. Which means, the mods recognize there are hack users, and they are willing to tolerate them to maintain the presence of the forum. Even if they don't mean to do that, they are doing it out of negligence. Truly sad because they have more than their share of hack users actively posting on that site. The wrong types that we don't want here.

My opinion, I could be wrong.

[Jarulf]

I really have no idea about their costs and don't care or remember when I see it. I always assume it is for their entier "net", that is all forums (I think they have the rpg ones and the wc3 ones as seperate) plus all their different sites for each game and their main loaded inc. Their also has the blizzardnews.net site which among other things seems to have "their store" which seels various products despite claiming to not be a comercial site, I call it a comercial site if you have a store selling products, but that seems to be an opinion not shared by themselves :) To be honest thought, they don't sell it themselves but through chipbits.com and appearantly linking to amazone too (no idea if they get a commission fro mthere).

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Lemekim,

Of cause, if they didn't have the huge numbers (ie got rid of all the jerks), they'd have much lower costs ;)

[Occhidiangela]

When I read the rules list that Valoren Gunsling has presented, and which I critiqued, that issue was right out there as an issue. It may have since been resolved, which your post seems to indicate, but at that point in time it appeared to be discussable, and I cannot imagine anyone considering himself legit who uses maphack.

What got me interested in the discussion was that it was even raised as an issue. It also got me laughing that cheese and cheating were not differentiated by any number of the folks who frequent that forum. The Smite Paladin who uses a teleport ring/amulet. Not cheating, it is in the game, it is not a bug, and is a valid approach unless it is agreed between parties before the duel to not use that. In that case, of course, it is an honor violation between parties, which is of course antithetical to any duelist with any self respect, like yourself. I thought that the attempt was an interesting way to try and codify a lot of "understoods."

I was advised by any number of folks that in a tournament, the kinds that many folks there had been in, and where it was easy for them to spot folks stepping outside the bounds of the pre agreed RoE, that there are MANY understood rules for those who duel often.

Thanks for reconfirming that cheating is still seen as abhorrent to those legit duellists out there.

Pandora was one of my friends who likes a good legit duel. Not sure if she plays any more.

[south]

Hi
I went to DII.net to bump the original post that caused grief, has it been censored.? lol
pity I like dii.net in spite of loads stuff that can give you a headache specially mindless discussion in forums, I found up to date news there....pity :(
Due to my bandwith I can access dii.net easier than bnet when trouble happens.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, guess what? Not only will dii.net not allow you to link elsewhere, they have a better idea! They steal them!

A recent article on hacking was apparently taken without the author's permission. Or so the author says it; it has been edited without her permission.

Actualy, apparently, the banned her and posted her article- Yea, I can understand banning ppl for hack methods, but that's just mean.

I mean, yes forum posts are their property, but the actual writing belongs to the author and proper credit /w permission must be given, if not ethicaly.

Perhaps this is a hoax, but I don't like the idea :(

[Jarulf]

Well, that thread over at diabloii.net was just locked. Appearantly it was turning "nasty" (strange, since for the last day or so almost all posts was by Elly or Worgus only, except Ruvanal pointing out why Tommi's site is banned). IN addition the whole issue was BS anyway according to Elly. So I guess it was not true anything. We can be relieved, LL is not a hack site and the censoring appearantly never happened :)

[Jarulf]

Well, guess what? Not only will dii.net not allow you to link elsewhere, they have a better idea! They steal them!

A recent article on hacking was apparently taken without the author's permission. Or so the author says it; it has been edited without her permission.

Actualy, apparently, the banned her and posted her article- Yea, I can understand banning ppl for hack methods, but that's just mean.

I mean, yes forum posts are their property, but the actual writing belongs to the author and proper credit /w permission must be given, if not ethicaly.

Perhaps this is a hoax, but I don't like the idea :(

I don't know if they simply took the article (or if someone else sent it to them). She was banned from the forums though, quite some time before that "article" was posted though. I was very surprised, not only they posted it, but that she would forward it to them. Never thought they stole it though. My guess is that someone else sent it to them though. Still, funny how they are so anti hacking yet post an article (it was a pst really in another forum I think) by someone being the admin of one of the major "hack" sits. I get someone didn't do eanough research :)

Just in case anyone wonder, the person was Morgalis and the site diabloworld.com.

[Archon_Wing]

Oh, it must have been someone else then who passed it in. I suppose this asks for the passage to be taken down.

[Ruvanal]

...(strange, since for the last day or so almost all posts was by Elly or Worgus only, except Ruvanal pointing out why Tommi's site is banned)...

What I find interesting there is Elly's reply to my statement.

Ruvanal:

Tommi's site appears to be a part of a student access at the Helsinki University of Technology. Sounds like your current method of applying your policies leaves something to be desired. One student does something like hacking, therefore all students there are hackers?

Elly:

Yes, that is correct.

So, since most universities end up with at least one student that does some form of hacking and pretty much any one with a worthwhile degree in anything would have needed to attend a university; therefore pretty much anyone with any college or university schooling is to be considered a hacker? Sounds a lot like a serious stereotyping problem to me.

[lemekim]

When I read the rules list that Valoren Gunsling has presented, and which I critiqued, that issue was right out there as an issue.&nbsp; It may have since been resolved, which your post seems to indicate, but at that point in time it appeared to be discussable, and I cannot imagine anyone considering himself legit who uses maphack.&nbsp;

What got me interested in the discussion was that it was even raised as an issue.&nbsp; It also got me laughing that cheese and cheating were not differentiated by any number of the folks who frequent that forum.&nbsp; The Smite Paladin who uses a teleport ring/amulet.&nbsp; Not cheating, it is in the game, it is not a bug, and is a valid approach unless it is agreed between parties before the duel to not use that.&nbsp; In that case, of course, it is an honor violation between parties, which is of course antithetical to any duelist with any self respect, like yourself.&nbsp; I thought that the attempt was an interesting way to try and codify a lot of "understoods."&nbsp;

I was advised by any number of folks that in a tournament, the kinds that many folks there had been in, and where it was easy for them to spot folks stepping outside the bounds of the pre agreed RoE, that there are MANY understood rules for those who duel often.

Thanks for reconfirming that cheating is still seen as abhorrent to those legit duellists out there.

Pandora was one of my friends who likes a good legit duel.&nbsp; Not sure if she plays any more.

Ah Occhi, the maphack discussion... Many of people who visited pvp forum did not belong to the legit dueling communities... And it was them who started that ridiculous discussion in the first place. They are another reason why the pvp community picked up and left dii.net - so many people coming in and simply making ridiculous statements like "oh you don't allow ith because you cannot afford it!"

I think one part of the discussion was that at first people didn't know how to detect maphack, so some people might have said that since you can't detect it, why not just allow it. That might have been true, I don't remember for sure. But once people found some ways to catch users with it on, that issue got dropped and it's really a non-issue now.

It might seem like it's pvpers arguing with themselves to an outsider, but if it's over some ridiculous, like allowing auto aim hack or Ith weapons, you can bet that's it's some outsider trying to stir up trouble.


I just thought of something - what do you think of using hacks to detect cheating by moderators in team duels? For example, you will have 3 vs 3 people team duel going, and a moderator apiece to prevent cheating. Since a moderator is not actually playing the game, but simply judges, do you think he should be allowed to use PKTK (it's a tool that let's you see players items, so you can monitor if they are trying to cheat or not). I understand the no maphack at any point when playing diablo, but if you are not playing and it's the only way to really see if someone uses illegal item... What do you think!

[FoxBat]

I dunno, what do you think of scanners for D1?

Old topics never die! :D

[Tommi]

Tommi's site appears to be a part of a student access at the Helsinki University of Technology.

Actually, it is a staff site. If there's any D2 hacking activities at my university, I can report them to our system administration. Never heard of such, though, not being a hacker myself.