Friday 2/10, Saturday 2/11, Friday 2/17

[Alram]

After 2 days of work I finally completed all the steps neccessary to be able to summon Gahz'ranka, the optional fish boss in ZG. So we can fight him if we choose to.

[vor_lord]

Possible big problem!

Last night I noticed that a couple of the Lost Souls were in ZG. Feero (Priest) and Vasska (Warrior) at least were there, possibly more but I think just those two. It's a good bet they got in with the same bunch of people I did two weeks ago (the Keepers of the Dusk and friends raid on Wednesday night and Sat. night there). Normally that'd be a good thing, as they'll see some success, learn about the encounters, and get excited about our own ZG runs (hey just like I did).

Then looking at the Raid Zone Reset Calendar I noticed that the reset for ZG won't happen until Saturday. This means that at least those two will be locked out of our raid tomorrow if I understand how that works.

Is that how it works? If it does, we need to fill two more spots. If it isn't how it works, can someone help a raid n00b understand?

Xarhud, fancy pushing to 57 tonight? Swirly?

We could do UBRS and a 5 man as a backup plan.


edit: I am aware that you aren't locked unless you kill a boss, but especially if they went with KotD, they would have killed a boss and therefore be locked.

[Concillian]

They only had one warrior on their list and it may not have been Vasska.

We don't know who is on their list and who is not. I wouldn't freak out just yet. We have to have a certain amount of trust in order for an alliance to work.

If it is the case, there's not much we can do about it. Pressuring Swirly into doing something he's expressed little interest in is not how I'd like to handle the situation of being short a person or two. We also were able to do the snake boss last week with 19. Now that we've done it once, we probably could again knowing the transition and knowing that the boss goes nuts and starts doing mass damage at 20% so we should try to make the transition without shield wall and use shield wall at 20% instead.

[Mavfin]

On the raidlock thing...it only applies if they were there for a boss fight, and killed the boss. If you don't kill a boss, raidlocks do not apply.

[vor_lord]

They only had one warrior on their list and it may not have been Vasska. 

Ah yes I was thinking of the original list which had names (both of them were on it).

I wouldn't freak out just yet.  We have to have a certain amount of trust in order for an alliance to work.

I'm not freaking out, apparently my message came across wrong. I just wanted to point out that not having knowledge of the raid reset schedule could potentially impact our ability to field the necessary numbers.

And in no way am I trying to pressure swirly to do something he doesn't want to -- I wasn't aware he had no interest in it (sorry swirly I'm sure you can safely ignore me). He mentioned to me he's been twice on his other server, one good run, one bad. I also know he's said he prefers 5 mans over raids but I mistakenly took that to mean raiding things designed for a 5 man.

As far as trusting Lost Souls I'm not sure what you mean. I trust them. My assumption was that they might not even know how raid lockout works and might not even be aware this could cause a potential problem. It's not just Lost Souls that might be unaware of how the lockout/reset system works, and I thought this would be a good example to inform those of us Lurkers new to it.

Again, if we don't have enough to go I don't mind we have plenty of things we can do. So don't worry, no freaks here :P I'm good.

[Alram]

I believe it was Feero and Vasska in the raid. Before I email Mystique, please explain to me exactly what effect that will have on our raid if they come, as I do not fully understand the implications. Does it mean that the whole group won't be able to kill the bosses they killed? If so, couldn't we just kill other bosses? Please explain it to me.

[Concillian]

I believe it was Feero and Vasska in the raid.  Before I email Mystique, please explain to me exactly what effect that will have on our raid if they come, as I do not fully understand the implications. Does it mean that the whole group won't be able to kill the bosses they killed?  If so, couldn't we just kill other bosses?  Please explain it to me.
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The way I understand raidlocks to work... there are two options:
1) we get locked into their instance
Ramifications:
- The boss(es) they killed will not spawn.
- The guild they were with can't kill bosses we kill, if we kill any
- If the guild they were with wants to raid Friday, there will be direct conflict.

2) We go into our own raidlock instance
Ramifications:
Those that went with a different guild lastnight would be unable to come with us Friday, they are raidlocked into a different instance, so they would be unable to enter ours.

I am not 100% sure on the specifics of option 1), but I'm pretty sure this isn't what we'd want to do anyway.

[Alram]

I just sent this email to Mystique:

Hi,
We have a possible problem with our raid on Friday 2/17. I would appreciate any help you can render. I believe that Vasska and Feero did a raid with some other guild on Wednesday night. Normally that'd be a good thing, as they'll see some success, learn about the encounters, and get excited about our own ZG runs. However, because the reset for ZG won't happen until Saturday, Vasska and Feero are raidlocked to that instance run and can't participate in ours. If you don't kill a boss, raidlocks do not apply however.  Vasska and Feero would need to be replaced in our Friday raid if their raid did kill a boss. I'm sure they were unaware of the potential problems a raid lock could cause.
Here is a link to a thread which discusses raid locking:
http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.p...854&#entry73854

Please get back to me about this. Thanks.

[swirly]

And in no way am I trying to pressure swirly to do something he doesn't want to -- I wasn't aware he had no interest in it (sorry swirly I'm sure you can safely ignore me).  He mentioned to me he's been twice on his other server, one good run, one bad.  I also know he's said he prefers 5 mans over raids but I mistakenly took that to mean raiding things designed for a 5 man.
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I don't actually have a problem with doing ZG, I just don't get excited about it either. Combine that with not liking to schedule days and times when I will be on because it stops feeling like a game to me and more like work makes it so that I shouldn't be counted on for things like ZG. If I log in and there is room without anybody stepping aside then I don't mind going. So I don't mind it being said that I could fill a hole possibly, just understand that I may or may not be around to fill it. You can keep me in mind if you wish, but don't count on.

Guess I should also say that I didn't feel pressured by anything you or anybody else said. I'm just posting this so people have something to refer to instead of just going by what has been said or heard in game. : )

On another note since I'm making a post anyway. The guild I did the successful run with saved coins until there was enough of a type to complete a quest for somebody then the people who could use the coin would roll for the whole stack. This way you end up with one person getting an item instead of several people having coins and all of them having to wait for items. Of course this requires a bit of a team outlook and understanding that you may not be the first to get things. I'm just pointing it out so it can be considered for the coins and other such things that go to our guild. That guild also gave priority to the enchants on the items that can be used for enchants. I'm assuming this is because you can get the enchants before you have the required reputation and so there is no point giving the items to people who won't be able to use them for a long time anyway. Better to give them to those that can make quicker use of them and others can get them as they get closer to where they need to be. Course if people don't have items they want to bother enchanting with them anyway then I don't know where that leaves you. Just some things for people to consider in regards to the drops. : )

[bonemage]

I just sent this email to Mystique:
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Some of info in that link is dated though, as the instance reset times are no longer tied to when the instance was first raidlocked, but now regularly set on a schedule. It did clear up what I was confused about regarding the raid leader's part. It's important to understand how this works and the schedule, because a Wednesday night run in ZG would not have been a problem last week and won't be next week. The raid calendar on when instances are reset can be found here. I believe this information should be passed on to the Lost Souls.

[VoiceMan]

Quick update for me....I will not be logging on as early as I usually do on Friday nights. I have some real life committments that will prevent me from being there before 8 pm server time. However, I AM expecting to be there by then, if it's after that, it will only be due to the que to get in, so I should be there in time for the ZG run, even if I happen to miss some of the trash mob clearing.

[Alram]

Some of info in that link is dated though, as the instance reset times are no longer tied to when the instance was first raidlocked, but now regularly set on a schedule.  It did clear up what I was confused about regarding the raid leader's part.  It's important to understand how this works and the schedule, because a Wednesday night run in ZG would not have been a problem last week and won't be next week.  The raid calendar on when instances are reset can be found here.  I believe this information should be passed on to the Lost Souls.
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I sent the link. Thank you.

[Concillian]

On another note since I'm making a post anyway.  The guild I did the successful run with saved coins until there was enough of a type to complete a quest for somebody then the people who could use the coin would roll for the whole stack.  This way you end up with one person getting an item instead of several people having coins and all of them having to wait for items.  Of course this requires a bit of a team outlook and understanding that you may not be the first to get things.  I'm just pointing it out so it can be considered for the coins and other such things that go to our guild.  That guild also gave priority to the enchants on the items that can be used for enchants.  I'm assuming this is because you can get the enchants before you have the required reputation and so there is no point giving the items to people who won't be able to use them for a long time anyway.  Better to give them to those that can make quicker use of them and others can get them as they get closer to where they need to be.  Course if people don't have items they want to bother enchanting with them anyway then I don't know where that leaves you.  Just some things for people to consider in regards to the drops. : )
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I think we were working along these lines. Coins are considered a guild roll, not an individual roll, and Xame made a character for banking coins. It makes sense to use them on a 'can be used' basis either for wanted items or for the rep gain turn-ins.

I already made the chart for what paragons are useful to what classes at what rep levels. I think giving paragons to people who can use them a friendly over those who can use them at revered makes a great deal of sense.

[Alram]

On another note since I'm making a post anyway.  The guild I did the successful run with saved coins until there was enough of a type to complete a quest for somebody then the people who could use the coin would roll for the whole stack.  This way you end up with one person getting an item instead of several people having coins and all of them having to wait for items.  Of course this requires a bit of a team outlook and understanding that you may not be the first to get things.  I'm just pointing it out so it can be considered for the coins and other such things that go to our guild.  That guild also gave priority to the enchants on the items that can be used for enchants.  I'm assuming this is because you can get the enchants before you have the required reputation and so there is no point giving the items to people who won't be able to use them for a long time anyway.  Better to give them to those that can make quicker use of them and others can get them as they get closer to where they need to be.  Course if people don't have items they want to bother enchanting with them anyway then I don't know where that leaves you.  Just some things for people to consider in regards to the drops. : )

Personally I would prefer that each person holds their own, with the option of using Xame's character to exchange their coins. There are several reasons.
1. Five coins of 2 different types are required to make Armor Set pieces. Each class uses a different combination of coins. It is less complicated if each person tracks their own needs.
2. Someone who is not interested in making an armor set piece gets left out of a roll; in fact that person could turn in 3 coins(1 each of 3 different types) to gain rep, an equally valid use of coins.
3. There are alternative ways other than a raid with our guild to farm coins: solo kills of non-elite tiger cubs (.1% drop rate), small raid parties killing trash mobs (1 drop for 11 kills on our incursion). The need to deposit all coins in a central bank is a disincentive to farm coins. socialism/communism vs. capitalism?
4. By distributing coins to all guild members present in a raid, everyone gets some loot from the raid. There is an immediate reward fairly distributed.
5. We have always had a cooperative spirit where we contribute goods and services to help each other; it just feels wrong to me to formalize and institutionalize it.

[Alram]

Bad news. Vasska and Feero killed 2 bosses and are raid locked + Deadpriest, their 2nd priest can't go.

So we have 16 total. we could take a short run in there, kill Grah, and trash mobs, probably thats all we could do. Xarhud will be lvl 56--i'm guessing thats too low. So we do some 5 mans? or an 11 UBRS and 1 5 man?

[Concillian]

Bad news. Vasska and Feero killed 2 bosses and are raid locked + Deadpriest, their 2nd priest can't go.

So we have 16 total.  we could take a short run in there, kill Grah, and trash mobs, probably thats all we could do. Xarhud will be lvl 56--i'm guessing thats too low. So we do some 5 mans? or an 11 UBRS and 1  5 man?
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If we don't do ZG we can fit Xarhud, Feero and Vasska in. which is 19, almost a full UBRS run + 5 man.

- I have all the junk together for a full tribute run.
- I could also really use a BRD run so I can smelt. SOO much space taken up by Dark Iron Ore (up to 10 bank spaces now). A run with a mage could get Royal Rescue out of a few people's quest logs.
- Or I know Marn has been wanting scholo for a while. Just throwing out ideas.

I don't really need anything from UBRS at this point except the 'never gonna see it' Chromatic Carapace, but if that's where I best fit in, I'll go for sure.

[Alram]

In chats about the situation while in game, the consensus was that if Xarhud stays back, he could come along and be an asset. So we would have 17, and that would probably be enough to get the easier ZG bosses done. Any objections?

[vor_lord]

In chats about the situation while in game, the consensus was that if Xarhud stays back, he could come along and be an asset. So we would have 17, and that would probably be enough to get the easier ZG bosses done. Any objections?
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It won't take too long to reach Venoxis -- we only have to do troll and snake pulls (no nasty bat riders). If we can't handle Venoxis there isn't much point in trying Jeklik or Mandokir (I don't know how deep in the fishing boss is or how hard he is).

We could give it a shot. We're bound to get at least some coins and rep, and education. If we suck we can blame it on not having enough people :D

I am of course available for five mans/UBRS if that is the consensus too. For me personally my priority of actual upgrades are DM East (3 excellent raiding healing pieces), DM West (good ring, gloves from the Ogre quest), Strat Live (Balnazzar's head this time leading to the Baron quest which has an upgrade for me), Scholo (Devout Crown and Burial Shawl), UBRS (Devout Shoulders).

I've had enough of a break from tribute that I could do that also if that's what people want. And I've always loved BRD though we don't generally have trouble finding people to make a group for there.

[Alram]

It won't take too long to reach Venoxis -- we only have to do troll and snake pulls (no nasty bat riders).  If we can't handle Venoxis there isn't much point in trying Jeklik or Mandokir (I don't know how deep in the fishing boss is or how hard he is).

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Gahz'ranka is just past the Tiger area. I believe he is relatively easy. In his immediate area there are a couple of fish and maybe some crocs to clear just to be on the safe side.

[Concillian]

Venoxis didn't seem terribly difficult, though with 3 fewer than last time we may be short on DPS so we run into more trouble healing.

As a DPS warr I was having trouble avoiding enough of the poison to really put a lot of damage on him. I bandaged once and that allowed me to get back in briefly, but after that I was mostly just hanging back so I could go in for one last execute before death.

Perhaps we didn't have the groups well enough organized for poison cleansing and / or nature resistance. I didn't hear much early discussion about aspect of the wild and such, so I don't know if that was happening, not that I had a hunter or shaman in my group anyway.

So I guess what I'm saying is that if we have a little improvement in group organization and tactics, we should have a reasonable shot with 16. DPS in phase 2 seems the key factor. Phase 1 is fairly sustainable with some rotation, but phase 2 needs to happen as fast as possible. I don't think I have enough time to gather Whipper Root Tubers, and I only have 2 or 3 left. Seems like those + potion use could help a lot on keeping up the melee DPS without sucking too much healer attention.

Going for that would be a challenge for sure, but fun.