Uber upgrade?

[Guest]

I guess he was missing the obligatory SARCASM ALERT again dry.gif

edit: ps: also edited my earlier post to be less subtle, slightly more obvious

That cruel.

[bigeyedbug]

That cruel.

Ah ha! I think unreal is screwing with you guys. :o

Better tone it down a little there, fella. Otherwise they may catch on... :unsure:

Hmmm. At least, I hope that's what's happening. :huh:

[Guest]

I'm not... I'm saying that everybody has been giving me a lot of crap lately.

[gekko]

I'm not... I'm saying that everybody has been giving me a lot of crap lately.

I figured my comment concerning murder was clearly so unbelievably stupid that no one would every believe I was serious. Then again, I've been quite convinced, upon first seeing things on this very forum, that someone was using sarcasm. Typically, it turns out the poster was dead serious.

gekko

[whyBish]

Is it just me or is everybody mean...

As one of the ancient ones raised as a suggested motto for the *Lurker* Lounge
"Post less, read more" :)

[Archon_Wing]

Punishing murderes is stupid, because we've been punishing them for thousands of years (even killing many of them) and murder still happens. We want to stop murders from happening, but we can't; therefore, we shouldn't bother trying.

I object to your unwillingless to punish the heinous crime of murder. Just because it still happens does not mean we shouldn't do our best to stop it. This shows that you are devoid of moral values and I would not share my turkey sandwich with the likes of you. Not even a cheese sandwich. And dear lord, only the most heartless fail to comprehend what a murderer is, and you even spelled it wrong! You'd probaly murder a old granny crossing the streets just for kicks! Ahh, no turkey for you! And no, I am not being sacrastic!! You really don't get any turkey! :blink:

[LPL2004]

Edited- LPL, I'm pretty sure that you weren't advocating selling characters. From your post, I think you were trying to point out how silly it is that people would pay more than they paid for the original game for a single character. However, I don't want the LL forums to link to characters for sale, so I had to edit your post to delete the link. Please don't link to characters or items for sale. Thanks.

-Griselda

[LPL2004]

[deleted]

[Trobb]

The advantage to demon limb's enchant is not only the fire damage. It also adds 215% to your attack rating. I know some pallys have a hard time hitting so that would be one good buff even if it didn't add any damage. And on a zeal or fury of 5 hits it would add 460-540 fire damage for each attack. Granted, that isn't alot but you could whittle an immune monster down with that.

[neod]

I am posting this and only this:

I have just sat and read every single entry in this thread. sad really.

I would like to think that I have gotten something from reading this but i think all i can really say is .... what a waste of time. I could have been doing something productive.

Well i guess i should add something...
IMO both sides are correct and both sides are wrong. As a person who plays d2 constantly and tries trading for the best i can get, I feal that d2 is far from perfect. As is any online game. There is always going to be a person or in most cases a vast amount of ppl that exploit the game and "ruin" it for others. As far as i have seen in LoD the duping is bad but atleast the items that are being massed duped are actually able to make in a game. BOTd for instance. It is possible to have a lgt BoTD that you made. I have only been on LoD for a couple weeks now but during that time I have seen tons of duped items. about 99% though were runed items. All of which are actually possible to get in the game.
Hmm Now if the items are actually able to be found in the game and the people that are wasting money or time (such as trading their other lgt items for a duped) are using the duped items in the game i really don't see how it is ruining the game for others. I mean atleast the items aren't super uber hacked like in classic d2.
Does it make others jealous that they have the duped items? Because they didnt' spend a gazilion hours looking for them? Well i say that any person that uses a duped item which they worked darn hard to get like by trading their rarer items for it, should have every right on using that item.

If sentences are not making sense it is late so forgive me.

Overall, I think duping is bad. Very bad. I hate bots. I think anyone that uses a bot for any purpose should have their acct deleted and cd key banned.
I also think that there is only one way to not deal with duping and that is by doing exactly what gekko does. Don't play with those ppl. ignore bots by making lvl res games and password games. Don't let the duping ruin the game though. Just know it is out there and I can never be stopped. But there are ways to deal with it. I think by taking it to the extremes is the only real way that duping can ruin the game. But if you are happy in your priv games and with your friends then good for you.

All this came about from a simple question lol i love it. Hmm gonna make a ww druid myself soon.

Best wishes to all and good luck gamin.
-NeoD

[lfd]

really don't see how it is ruining the game for others
...
Does it make others jealous
...
any person that uses a duped item which they worked darn hard to get like by trading their rarer items for it, should have every right on using that item
...
also think that there is only one way to not deal with duping and that is by doing exactly what gekko does. Don't play with those ppl. ignore bots by making lvl res games and password games

Right.

So you don't see how it ruins the game for everyone else, you think people who cheat or benefit from cheating have "every right" to do so, and that everyone who doesn't agree should be forced to change how they play to the extent of shutting themselves away in private games?

This argument is trotted out by every cheater (note: I am emphatically not calling you a cheater, here, you say in your post that you hate duping and botting so I assume you go to lengths to avoid benefitting from it), and it's flawed to the extreme. It's basically saying "if you don't like how _I_ play the game, go off and play it on your own".

It's made public games almost unplayable for the legit players - try playing with a BoTD-frenzier, and see how many steps you can take towards a monster before it's dead. Good luck keeping up with them as they speed offscreen towards their next target, too. It's made a mockery of the ladder race (it's not the only thing that has done so by any means, but it hasn't helped). So-called strategy guides which dictate equipment list the high-end runewords as if they are plausible to build your character around.

Meanwhile, people who just want to play the game are forced into solo play, single player, LAN multiplayer or things like the AB just to get the gameplay that _should be standard in a public game_. That is, after waiting a minute or so in the game creation queue.

Duping and botting doesn't ruin the game for others? Give me a break.

[neod]

i can see your point and i now agree with you that playing in a game that has a duped to the extreme player with botds enigma and what-not lowers the fun outta your kills and the rest of the parties. It is like a lvl 80+ comin into a norm game and not partying but killin everything so you get no exp or q's.

But what of the players that have lgts? would you say that a lgt botd frenzy barb ruins the game? in that case i am very sorry that blizzard made items as powerful as they did. And you don't feal others should have them.
My main point here is that just because there is a botd in a game doesn't mean it is duped. I do however understand that allmost all are. Just don't be mad at me when i come into your game wearing a lgt high end rune word accusing me that i am supporting dupes because i have a certain item. And please dont' respond with "like you really have that specific item" because that is just way to easy to comment back on.

I repeat. I hate dupers and bots. But I love lgts. If someone has a high lvl lgt i praise them i dont' look down on them for it just because 99% of the losers on bnet just pay for theirs.

-NeoD

EDIT: oh yeah and i totally agree with you that the ladder season is a joke. all that is good about it is the speciffic ladder items and rune words. The only reason i am even playing ladder is to get runes. So when that person hits 99 big deal. I know that i could have reached it much faster than most ppl on bnet without bots. That is all the reward i need to satisfy me. They can have their "prize" for cheating their way up to 99. I wouldn't want it if i had to cheat. Besides if the prize could be any worse it would be scary.

[Guest]

I'm taking some context from another thread that I'm sure most of you (IFD, gekko, and munkay at least) have read. It was a thread called MF bug, in which I got flamed for saying that there is a bugger dealie thingie that makes your mf go down every time you kill Meph.

Anyway, Adeyeke (sic?) and somebody else (forget who) were saying how you can't say 'I just KNOW there's a mf bug thing'; you have to prove it (nobody wanted to).

I think this is kind of relevent. I'm pretty sure that you two (munkay, gekko) think that what Adeyek has said is true. If so, then how about PROVING that these sites do dupe and bot, instead of just flaming me, and saying you JUST KNOW that they do?

[Archon_Wing]

If you say there's an MF bug, there should be some kind of reasoning behind it. Then people have no right to flame you if you have some kind of decent explanation for it.

I read that thread. Where's the flames? Maybe you can pull them out because I really didn't notice them. -_-

These sites have a high chance of botting because they have stores of difficult to find items. yes, it's possible to find godly stuff but the chance of finding so much with such low drop rates is really low! Not only have we got some lucky folks out there, but it looks like there are tons of them. Judging by their luck, I ought to win the lottery soon.

Yes, there's no exact evidence in each case but there's a diffrence between logical assumptions and talking out of your ass. :)

[Baajikiil]

how about PROVING that these sites do dupe and bot, instead of just flaming me, and saying you JUST KNOW that they do?

Well, proving every site may be time consuming and annoying. I think we can determine a general trend in such sites, and stick with that.

Say, for example the site that hosts Chippy's skill calculator. Search the AB for posts by the user "jesse". He/she is the owner of that site, and openly admits to selling dupes/hacks in the past.

Have you looked at some of these other sites? They commonly list a quantity column for *rares*. That tends to strike me as a bad sign. Read the FAQs on such sites. They often have instructions on how to avoid having items deleted.

And as for the runewords, well think about it. How many ZODs do you really think are found every day? It can't even be a tiny fraction of the amount that are sold. The drop %s are simply too low for there to be thousands of them out there.

Well, the botting is harder to prove. You are right, there is no actual way to prove that a site is botting its items. But considering the lack of morals that are already apparent, it's not exactly a leap of faith to assume that botting goes on.

Now, if you can prove a site is *not* botting or dealing in hacks/dupes, than that will be something. :D

[Munkay]

Are you trolling for more? That debate started on that thread and (supposedly) died. We've stated a reply to the question you just asked. We talked about our reasonings and why we beleive it.

Stop beating the dead horse. And stop trolling.

Munk

Edit: Contemplated deleting the entire post. <_<

[neod]

I am only replying to continue the vicious cycle.

Carry on. Spread the good word. And don't forget to actually play the game instead of searching endlessly in forums.

-NeoD

Once bitten twice shy!

(i don't know i am tired)

[Guest]

Well, proving every site may be time consuming and annoying. I think we can determine a general trend in such sites, and stick with that

Likewise, proving that Mephisto drops worse after every time that you kill him is time consuming and annoying.

Now, if you can prove a site is *not* botting or dealing in hacks/dupes, than that will be something.

It would also be something to prove that Meph doesn't drop worse. In both situations, the sword is double bladed. As you said, the only arbiter is common sense, which is, unfortunately, relative.

What does trolling mean?

[adeyke]

That's "adeyke" <_<.

And the situation is entirely different.

For the MF situation, we have a very good understanding of how drops work. It's been researched and tested and such. However, some said that their drops became worse with time. They said that there must be some kind of counter that tracks how often you kill something to make the drops worse with time. This is inconsistent with our understanding of the drops, and Jarulf himself said there was no counter. However, they persisted, even though they really had no evidence other than unreliable anecdotes. They failed to give anything more substantial than "it seems that way to me." Furthermore, the reports were inconsistent about just what was happening, or why. And any trends could easily be explained by perception errors or just the effects of randomness. In such a case, it's much more rational to believe the established, researched, documented system than the supposed system without any evidence, without any details, and without any sort of explanation other than "drops get worse if you kill the same monster a lot."

As for the other situation... We know they're trying to make a profit. We know that it's much faster to cheat to get good items than to get them honestly. We know that cheating will get you more money than legitimate playing could. We know that many people who would buy items wouldn't care if they're legit or not. We know that there's a significant market for dirty items. We know that many stores do sell items that are absolutely, postively dupes (try googling for "blood whorl" or "imp shanks", for example). We know that some item selling sites have no sense of ethics, as they use spam bots to advertise their sites. Now, given all this, don't you think it's rational to be just a bit wary of item selling sites?

How are those situations even vaguely similar?

Accepting that there is "a bugger dealie thingie that makes your mf go down every time you kill Meph" would mean accepting an unsupported rumour over established knowledge. Accepting that a site sells dupes or botted items needs no such leap of faith. Many sites do sell dirty items, so one more that does so would really not be unusual.

And the dirty item sites are often quite obvious. Any time there's a rare item with a quantity field, they're dealing in dupes, period. Even without those, it should be possible to tell if they have too many items to possibly have obtained legally. For example, 40/15 jewels are so extraordinarily rare that you couldn't possibly have those as a stock item, unless they're dirty. And if they have any sort of FAQ or info page, those can be quite informative.

So we do know without a shadow of a doubt that many item sites sell dirty items. What isn't known is if there's an item site that really does sell only legit items (without any dupes, bots, or hacks of any sort involved anywhere in the process). I wouldn't buy an item even from such a site, so I haven't exactly been looking.

Regardless, you are completely misapplying my argument.

[adeyke]

You're right. We cannot prove that absolutely every D2 item site sells dirty items. However, we can prove that many of them do. I did just decide to google a bit and look at the top hits as well as the sponsored links. I could confidently prove that every single one that I saw is a cheat sites. That means that none of the easiest-to-find sites are legit. However, there admittedly would still be the possibility of a legit site. You're welcome to try and find that to use as a counter-example.

However, when you originally brought up item sites, you weren't trying to say "there are some legit sites hidden among all the obvious cheat sites."

No, what you said was:

There are websites you can just buy them from. Bots are always spamming them in games.

That is, when you were referring to item sites, you specifically meant the ones that have spam bots. While spam botting alone would already disqualify a site from legit status, the sites that do use spam bots also have the dirty items.

And if that's not sufficient, consider the situation where you brought up the sites. You had said that BotD was better than the upgraded Heart Carver. When Baajikiil said that those were hard to get legitly, you brought up the item sites.

In other words, you implied that the item sites that use spam bots are selling legitimate BotDs.

This is absolutely false.