Uber upgrade?

[ima_nerd]

Realm Reset and a New Patch against B/H/D.
I think it would be the best thing to happen to D2 Realms in a long time. It would 1) Prevent topics like this that have kept me up WAY past my bed time. :angry: 2) Stop all the annoying spam bots so that I could play in peace, at least for a short while. and 3) Completely reset the economy which has long ago surpassed post WWI German inflation.

BTW: Was it WWI or WWII? Or both...I'm tired. I think it was WWI...

[whyBish]

My actual opinion, devil's advocacy aside, is that the sale of items for Real Life™ currency should probably not be part of the game. Blizzard should have included rules to this effect in the ToS, asked eBay to desist from presenting D2 item/character sales (much as Sony did with Everquest), and worked to shut down (using the terms of the ToS) item warehouse websites.

That is a rather naive view, considering that the world is such a large place. How would they stop clan exchanges (e.g. an A.B. type weopon bank but a tracking of value contributed/removed etc.). It would just push selling off of 'secure' methods like EBay and into sites hosted in countries that Blizzard could not sue in, or down into trading in smaller groups. In the end, Ebay purchases is no different to me paying my neighbor $20 for item X... and how would they police that? It is a game after all and not an invitation to sign up to a R.L. big brother scenario.

Or maybe I've misinterpreted?

[IKKE]

Nice OT :P

[Archon_Wing]

The ladder was reset not too long ago, and it didn't take too long to make it a mess again. :(

[Archon_Wing]

The damage on enchant isn't particularly nice, especialy since you can't benifit from synergies. It's a nice plus, but I would not make a big deal of it- IMO using the demon limb, casting enchant and switching weapons is not worth it at all. That 120ish fire damage could be provided with charms, not to mention repairing charges slows everything down. And don't even think such a low elemental damage will help vs. physical immunes, especialy at the point in the game where you can come across an elite unique mace.

I would stick with the demon limb, unless you happen across an even stronger weapon, like a cranium basher etc.

An upgraded Plague Bearer would seem nice too, and you could actualy find one. ;)

[FenrisWulf]

Okay, I'm going against my previous assertion that I was done with this thread, but only to answer a direct question. :D

@whyBish:
I guess you would have to consider the reasons for my opposition to item purchase to understand how much shutting down eBay and item-selling sites would help. Again, I'm of the opinion that the trade of items for money gives a market to stockpiling of hacked/botted/duped gear that would not otherwise exist; see previous posts for extra verbage. But to support a market of this sort, you need a fairly large consumer base willing to pay you money for items, and you actually need to have money coming in exchange for the items. Your AB weapon bank idea, as far as I can tell, still keeps all of the merchandise in-game (ie, you add a few items to get credit, and then you can pull items out at a loss of credit; it's just managed in-game trading); if you were able to pull out Real Life™ money as you accrue a positive balance...well, if done via hacking/botting/duping, then you're just cheating your friends, and on a very small scale. Same thing with the neigher scenario: it's too complicated of a procedure to ever make a business out of.

eBay and item-selling sites are different in the sense that they quickly and effectively put you in contact with the entire population of BNet, and provide efficient methods of money transfer between lots of people that you don't have to personally know. Hacking/botting/duping becomes more profitable (more people, easy to get money from), and becomes a profession (monetarily) worth getting into. Development of more effective hacks/bots/dupes also is more lucrative, less so than in a small-scale neighborly-trade situation. In my opinion, you need commercial-style sites to make this work. And commercial sites can be shut down.

I am naive on several levels, though, of course. For instance, Blizzard would never take and enforce a stance like this; it's too hard (requires monitoring of BNet chatter, for instance). And there may be some inherent value to having 20 copies of the same item that I'm not aware of. And maybe most of the people aren't complicit hackers/dupers/botters by convenience (ie, they participate in it mainly because it's easy), but because they really have some sort of inexplicable competitive urge to be better than everyone else at this endless level grind. That would kind of mess up some of my theories, too. In general, though, I at least stand my belief that eBay and item-selling sites Are Not Helping™.

Also, my belief that item purchase isn't good for Diablo II. :)

Note: the opinions on this matter were strongly influenced by this article (dii.net link, in case you want to avoid), and then reinforced by later research into the subject.

EDIT: Heck, here's even a link to my research paper (Word document), but only if you're really interested (it has a bibliography of interesting sources on the matter, hopefully still being hosted). :P It's not spectacularly well-written, sorry; I was overall a bit strapped for time and finished most of it on the plane from SF to Virginia.

[Pren]

ignorance

Look, I played EQ for nearly 5 years.

www.mysupersales.com

Multi-million dollar business spanning every MMORPG selling duped items, legit items, powerleveled/exploited accounts, and legit player accounts sold to them. The guy who runs it has purchased several fansites and message boards (paying for all costs, thousands in bandwidth, etc) to advertise.

www.playerauctions.com

Originally came about when sony had EQ stuff yanked from ebay.



Nothing can be done about it, because the online game industry is about making money. There's no such thing as fair, cheat free, etc, except in who you associate with. It quite -benefits- the companies to have a RL cash trade going on in their game because it keeps people playing. In MMORPG, an account that gets sold means continued revenue, versus one that gets cancelled or deleted. Even if they DO want to stop it, they can't.

We all want a legitimate environment, but it can't happen on a large scale. Even the basin is full of retards talking about their BoTD and 20/20/5 whatever the hell jewels and gems. But sure, it's legit. Really.

Me? I wish that I'd made $5000-100,000+ off items in EQ like people I know. Too young/naive/lacking in credit card.



Edit: The one thing I don't understand is how blizzard profits from b.net. All of the advertisements are now for blizzard products. In a MMOG, keeping people playing (either because the account gets sold, or because people with busy RL can 'keep up' by buying items, and therefore not cancel their accounts) brings in money for the company. But -how- does the battle.net model work?

[Guest]

Edit: The one thing I don't understand is how blizzard profits from b.net. All of the advertisements are now for blizzard products. In a MMOG, keeping people playing (either because the account gets sold, or because people with busy RL can 'keep up' by buying items, and therefore not cancel their accounts) brings in money for the company. But -how- does the battle.net model work?

Post Settings

Blizzard doesn't profit, except for selling their games and merchendise. That's what's cool about Blizzard; they're still keeping their Starcraft servers up, even though they are now LOSING money on the game (not enough people buying it). Blizzard has long since been known as a company with high production values, and the develepors (sic?) play their own games. Diablo II, however, is not in the same boat as Starcraft. Starcraft servers don't actually host games, just hold databases and provide the ability to chat. Actual people host the games. Diablo II servers actually host games (every time you make a game, a server is assigned to host it). This obviously means a lot more computers are involved, and as the popularity for the game dwindles, I see huge losses coming Blizzard's way soon, the source; D2. (World of Warcraft works the same way of course, but they have a monthly fee.) Likewise, when Blizzard stops selling Warcaft III copies, they will likely cut back on servers in one of their other games to keep their profits in the green (Warcraft III servers actually host most games, except for custom games, and then there are the chat servers).

[gekko]

Nothing can be done about it, because the online game industry is about making money. There's no such thing as fair, cheat free, etc, except in who you associate with. It quite -benefits- the companies to have a RL cash trade going on in their game because it keeps people playing. In MMORPG, an account that gets sold means continued revenue, versus one that gets cancelled or deleted. Even if they DO want to stop it, they can't.

<< edit: adding, as adeyke so succinctly put it, the obligatory SARCASM ALERT end edit >>

Punishing murderes is stupid, because we've been punishing them for thousands of years (even killing many of them) and murder still happens. We want to stop murders from happening, but we can't; therefore, we shouldn't bother trying.

<< edit: END SARCASM ALERT: SERIOUS NOW!! end edit >>

Just because utopia is impossible, doesn't mean we shouldn't aspire to it. Just because we can't stop the purchasing, duping, botting, and hacking of items, doesn't mean we shouldn't bother trying.

More to the point: just because other people are purchasing/selling these items, does not make it OK for YOU to do so -- whether your personal involvement (or lack thereof) will have any realistic effect on such actions existing has no effect on the morality of your actions. You shouldn't murder people, just because people will get murdered whether you kill them or not.

Your post was in most ways absolutely correct -- and missed the point entirely. It's not about whether or not we can stop such actions on a large scale -- it's about individual choices.

gekko

edit: added sarcasm alert and minor spelling corrections

[Guest]

Punishing murderes is stupid, because we've been punishing them for thousands of years (even killing many of them) and murder still happens. We want to stop murders from happening, but we can't; therefore, we shouldn't bother trying.

I find myself disagreeing with you.... If we don't punish murders then what incentive would people have to not kill people? People would be dying all the time. I think murder is a very serious crime.

EDIT:

The rest of your post contradicts what you said up there... ^^^^

[adeyke]

I guess he was missing the obligatory SARCASM ALERT again <_<?

[Guest]

Oh. Well he never said that he was being sarcastic.

[adeyke]

Indeed. And if even someone of your brilliance cannot detect the sarcasm, it must be gekko's fault for not making it clearer.

[lfd]

Oh. Well he never said that he was being sarcastic.

Forgive me for asking, but are you autistic to any degree? You seem to have great difficulty spotting when people are "lying for comic effect", especially with sarcasm...

My apologies if this question seems slightly offensive - it's not intended to be in any way!

Edit: just to clarify, I don't agree with the definitions of autism provided by Webster or dictionary.com - the autistic/aspergers people I know seem perfectly normal in all regards except for difficulties in recognising when not to take what people say literally or at face value.

[lfd]

And if even someone of your brilliance cannot detect the sarcasm, it must be gekko's fault for not making it clearer.

You're evil. :D

[FenrisWulf]

@Pren:
You're correct in the sense that shutting down all item-selling sites related to Diablo II would turn out to be a logistical impossibility, and I suppose that, yes, I was presenting it too much as an actual suggestion as opposed to a desirable scenario. Item-selling sites simply have the largest impact on overall item sale within D2, which is why I primarily focused on them in my arguments. I'll revise:

In my opinion:
IF item sale (for real money) were not possible in relation to the D2 Closed Realms,
THEN there would less incentive for D2 players to hack/dupe/bot.

Rephrased:
Item sale encourages hacking/duping/botting.

As gekko quite rightfully clarified, it's not so much about the actual fact that this happens as it's about the moral responsibilities we have if these assertions are true. If you disagree with me on the practicality of implementing some scheme to stop all item purchase, point taken. If you, on the other hand, feel that this impracticality amounts to a green light for each individual to purchase items...well, I'm with gekko. :)

("ignorance", really? A bit harsh, old chap. :))

[Guest]

If dictionary.com's definition is wrong than what is the real defintion? (I don't know what it means anyway)

EDIT:

An hour later...

UnrealShadow13: do you think i'm autistic?
PhilJenkins93: no
PhilJenkins93: although you often act like it

Is autistisiscm a disease?

[gekko]

Clicky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

gekko

edit: ps: also edited my earlier post to be less subtle, slightly more obvious

[Guest]

Is it just me or is everybody mean...

[Munkay]

Is it just me or is everybody mean...

It's just you. :P