Electric Blue's 1.10 Wolf Guide

[Ynir]

carrion wind doesnt lead to any overpowered fury/rabies build, meaning that you wont earn much damage by using carrion wind. it is just the skill points you get. I advise you to go for rabies, with or without carrion wind.

Thanks for this timely advice.

I posted my query on the ab board and adeyke asserts that the synergy is a bug, which I take to be the best I can do on that topic.

I was going to dump into feral rage as a result, but I have been there & done that in 1.09. I have never been able to get poison to work effectively before, so here is my big chance. I will pump rabies and see what happens.

On the issue of communication: I am a scientist & I interpret mathematical and scientific notation daily. In the real world it is the author's job to communicate clearly and accurately. It is the reader's job to sort through different expressions of similar ideas to find those that work. Consistency with prevous notation may be convenient but has no inherent virtue, especially if new notation leads to new ideas or expresses old ideas better.

[TheDragoon]

On the issue of communication: I am a scientist & I interpret mathematical and scientific notation daily. In the real world it is the author's job to communicate clearly and accurately. It is the reader's job to sort through different expressions of similar ideas to find those that work. Consistency with prevous notation may be convenient but has no inherent virtue, especially if new notation leads to new ideas or expresses old ideas better.

While this is true, I (and basically every other Druid player that I've talked to) stand by my belief that the "new notation" of electricblue's adds nothing but confusion for the people he targets with the guide.

His definition of "WIAS" (Weapon Increased Attack Speed) is the same definition that the Druid community has used for "Weapon Speed Modifier (WSM)." The term Weapon Increased Attack Speed has been used to mean the Increased Attack Speed value listed on your weapon while the Other Increased Attack Speed (OIAS) means the value of Increased Attack Speed listed on all other items. Similarly, Skill Increased Attack Speed (SIAS) means the value of Skill Increased Attack Speed listed on the skill that applies to you.

Thus, according to the standard notation, the WIAS/OIAS/SIAS total values are just the sum of the values that you read off of the user-interface for the game. Thus, all three types of IAS are consistent in that respect. With electricblue's notation, they are not consistent as OIAS and SIAS are teh sum of the values from the game's display while WIAS is the sum of the listed value in the game and the base weapon speed which is NOT listed anywhere in the game. You have to get the base weapon speed values from the weapons.txt file or the Arreat Summit.

So, of course, my suggestion had been to change the listing from WIAS to WSM, at which point his chart is basically the EXACT same thing as the charts for the Werewolf that were originally compiled by Concillian.

So, in the end, the new notation just isn't consistent with all other information sources (including my calculator, the calculator from diablo2.de, Concillian's Tables, and, really, every other guide out there) and, in fact, the same composite value already has a name from the more standard notation. :) As I think I've said to some people before (and drawing upon a chemistry example), renaming the WSM to WIAS would be kind of like renaming Enthalpy to some other name that isn't used anywhere else. The value would be the same, but it would have a different name and probably lead to confusion in all of those Chemistry students out there. B)

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As for the whole synergy thing, I would agree with adeyke that it's a bug. If you'd like to see my justification, message me and I'll send it to you. I know electricblue disagrees so I'll refrain from posting it to avoid another argument between he and I about it. :P

[electricblue]

I agree with the confusion, but the notation is not new, it is 2 or 3 years old. I already told the story. My tables are drawn independant of any study done by Concillian or TheDragoon, but at the first study that is printed in my 1.09 guide, only the spear and bow attack speeds were taken and added later from concillian's tables. And they were given references.

However, because of the confusion, I had changed the term WIAS in my most recent update to WTS (so, before the message that I am quoting was sent :)), ie. weapons total speed, and seems that I will further change it to WSM if it is the exact common definition. It would be nice if TheDragoon read my guide to check before posting that.

About the definitions, if you properly define something before you use it, then there should not be any problem. Redefining will be some kind of abuse yes, but this situation is different from that, since it is not renaming something.

About the synergy thing, good decision :) But if they are objective, feel free to post.

I hope you will stop calling the 'old' notation as 'new notation' as a matter of respect to a past study.

[TheDragoon]

First off, I'll say that my response really was not directed at you, whatsoever. Rather, it was meant for Ynir as he had a good point, in general.

Consistency with prevous notation may be convenient but has no inherent virtue, especially if new notation leads to new ideas or expresses old ideas better.

However, I did not feel it really applied so much to this situation where it was not a new idea, nor did it express old ideas better. Rather, it was just renaming the notation that is more widely used. It was for his benefit, in case he didn't know the whole story. I've told you how I feel about this before, and you've basically said that you don't care before.

Which brings me to my next point. I'm getting tired of you just spouting off the same exact lines in every post you make. I'm well aware of what you think, as you've stated your opinions many, many times in the past. You've written lines such as,

About the definitions, if you properly define something before you use it, then there should not be any problem. Redefining will be some kind of abuse yes, but this situation is different from that, since it is not renaming something.

...many, many times before in the past (some even in this thread!). Please, we know how you feel. If you have something new to say, go ahead, but repeating the same lines over and over really just wastes our time.

It would be nice if TheDragoon read my guide to check before posting that.

Addressing someone in a post directed toward an entire forum (hence why my name is in the 3rd person, rather than addressing me in the second person) and claiming that they didn't read what you wrote or look at something before posting is extremely rude. I've already chided you about this sort of thing, before, on other forums. You're making an assumption and, when it's shown to be false (as it is about to be) it really just makes you come off looking like a jerk for claiming that the person (me, in this case) didn't read something (your posts).

I'm well aware that you have finally changed your notation in your guide. Believe it or not, I HAVE been reading what you have said. However, you will note that NO WHERE in this forum have you ever said that you changed notation. I only knew because I have read your posts in other forums. For instance:

But I think, to prevent further confusion, I will rename WIAS term used in my guide with the update.

As stated, that post is not directed at you, it was directed at Ynir. I meant to show that there was a definite reason why using a different notation than the normal was not helpful, as it made it harder to understand for people who don't know the in's and out's of Wereform Attack Speed.

About the synergy thing, good decision  But if they are objective, feel free to post.

Why did you even post this? Your line of, "But if they are objective, feel free to post," is VERY trollish given that you know that I feel my critiques are perfectly objective. They don't reach the level of "complete confirmation from Blizzard," but they are, in fact objective. I can go on about this for a very, very long time (and did on Diabloii.net) but I won't let myself be goaded any farther by your trolling.

I hope you will stop calling the 'old' notation as 'new notation' as a matter of respect to a past study.

Fair enough, I'll meet you halfway on this. I'll say the notation is "old" to you and "new" to everyone else.

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To sum up, I'd say that your post was rather pointless as it contained no information that wasn't already found in this thread and was made in response to someone who already knows where you stand because he has read the entire thread (and threads on other forums). Claiming that I didn't read something before posting was unfounded and insulting. If you're going to claim that someone hasn't read something, you better have some really good proof or you are going to get burned. I also begin to get the feeling that many of your posts are rather trollish. I don't intend to reply to any trollish posts of yours any longer, however, as I will just report it to a moderator and let them deal with it. :)

[electricblue]

First off, I'll say that my response really was not directed at you, whatsoever.  Rather, it was meant for Ynir as he had a good point, in general.



However, I did not feel it really applied so much to this situation where it was not a new idea, nor did it express old ideas better.  Rather, it was just renaming the notation that is more widely used.  It was for his benefit, in case he didn't know the whole story.  I've told you how I feel about this before, and you've basically said that you don't care before.

Which brings me to my next point.  I'm getting tired of you just spouting off the same exact lines in every post you make.  I'm well aware of what you think, as you've stated your opinions many, many times in the past.  You've written lines such as,



...many, many times before in the past (some even in this thread!).  Please, we know how you feel.  If you have something new to say, go ahead, but repeating the same lines over and over really just wastes our time.



Addressing someone in a post directed toward an entire forum (hence why my name is in the 3rd person, rather than addressing me in the second person) and claiming that they didn't read what you wrote or look at something before posting is extremely rude.  I've already chided you about this sort of thing, before, on other forums.  You're making an assumption and, when it's shown to be false (as it is about to be) it really just makes you come off looking like a jerk for claiming that the person (me, in this case) didn't read something (your posts).

I'm well aware that you have finally changed your notation in your guide.  Believe it or not, I HAVE been reading what you have said.  However, you will note that NO WHERE in this forum have you ever said that you changed notation.  I only knew because I have read your posts in other forums.  For instance:



As stated, that post is not directed at you, it was directed at Ynir.  I meant to show that there was a definite reason why using a different notation than the normal was not helpful, as it made it harder to understand for people who don't know the in's and out's of Wereform Attack Speed.



Why did you even post this?  Your line of, "But if they are objective, feel free to post," is VERY trollish given that you know that I feel my critiques are perfectly objective.  They don't reach the level of "complete confirmation from Blizzard," but they are, in fact objective.  I can go on about this for a very, very long time (and did on Diabloii.net) but I won't let myself be goaded any farther by your trolling.



Fair enough, I'll meet you halfway on this.  I'll say the notation is "old" to you and "new" to everyone else.

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To sum up, I'd say that your post was rather pointless as it contained no information that wasn't already found in this thread and was made in response to someone who already knows where you stand because he has read the entire thread (and threads on other forums).  Claiming that I didn't read something before posting was unfounded and insulting.  If you're going to claim that someone hasn't read something, you better have some really good proof or you are going to get burned.  I also begin to get the feeling that many of your posts are rather trollish.  I don't intend to reply to any trollish posts of yours any longer, however, as I will just report it to a moderator and let them deal with it.  :)

First off, I'll say that my response really was not directed at you, whatsoever.  Rather, it was meant for Ynir as he had a good point, in general.

So, you think that my post is directed at you?

Sorry, but I can't see a point with this post related to game.
Hope I am not missing anything.

But, about reading thing, i need to make clear why I thought that you have not read it..

His definition of "WIAS" (Weapon Increased Attack Speed) is the same definition that the Druid community has used for "Weapon Speed Modifier (WSM)."

Your respond uses present tense, no clue that the issue is a past issue.

I don't intend to reply to any trollish posts of yours any longer,

I would thank you for that, since I really don't think that your last reply is positive. I won't go into things like saying same things over time, since I find that pointless.

Anyway, I think with the term renamed, the issue is OK. :)

[Cyath]

Ummm, all this heated discourse aside, I have a simple question. How do you deal with monsters that don't spread infection around, such as archers? Also, what do you do about monsters which are immune to poison?

[Bun-Bun]

I've found that knockback is quite handy for compressing groups of monsters, even the relatively immobile ones. Other than that, I just tag them all, one by one. :(

For Immunes, my WW has maxed Feral Rage, which was probably a mistake. Maxed Fury would be much better.

I still can't get past Hell Ancients, alas.

[electricblue]

Ummm, all this heated discourse aside, I have a simple question. How do you deal with monsters that don't spread infection around, such as archers? Also, what do you do about monsters which are immune to poison?

this is a hybrid build. meaning that rabies is not your only offense.
you can either have fury or fire claws along with rabies.
which can take archers and poison immunes easily.

burning souls may be a problem with fury. you ll need high resist + absorb to deal with them with fury.

[electricblue]

update:
completed hybrid subclasses

www.geocities.com/welett/index110.htm

update:
a more friendly version of the guide, I think you'll like it.

www.geocities.com/welett/fram.htm

[electricblue]

Hi, It's been quite a while since the first release of the guide, and I think It has matured enough. I am thinking about a final update to the hybrid wolves and moving on to my druid summoner guide.

Do you have any points that you see missing in the guide?
inputs?
comments?

www.geocities.com/welett/fram.htm

[LoWang]

Hey electricblue, you really tried to play that fire druid described in your guide? :blink:
I am just amazed how you "big planners" make your characters get to such level ;) with all points spent in all synergies and without having problems because of lack of another skills needed to survive...

An about that killing speed - it may be faster than fury only on hell diff. when monsters have realy lot of hps. I think fury is always faster then anything else even you have the fastest possible weapon, simply because it hits multiple monsters and you don't need to click on each one ;) So you will never be so fast with fire claws as with fury and you can kill monsters faster then the average fury druid only when killing monsters that fury druid would normally kill with 3 or more hits... hm that's a difficult math but I guesed that :)

[electricblue]

Hey electricblue, you really tried to play that fire druid described in your guide?  :blink:
I am just amazed how you "big planners" make your characters get to such level  ;) with all points spent in all synergies and without having problems because of lack of another skills needed to survive...

An about that killing speed - it may be faster than fury only on hell diff. when monsters have realy lot of hps. I think fury is always faster then anything else even you have the fastest possible weapon, simply because it hits multiple monsters and you don't need to click on each one  ;) So you will never be so fast with fire claws as with fury and you can kill monsters faster then the average fury druid only when killing monsters that fury druid would normally kill with 3 or more hits... hm that's a difficult math but I guesed that :)

you mean fire wolf?

anyway, i played all of them, but of course not to lvl 99. no problem surviving here, didn't get your point. what skills?

I personally like fury more, but against monster packs it gets interrupted frequently.

You can move with fire claws on the right click and you wont need to bother with clicking on every monster. same with fury.

And one thing.. you take burning souls with one hit with fc.

[LoWang]

OK so how far did you get your fire wolf?
And what skills did you use before your fire claws got strong enough?
Fire claws do not make a physical damage don't they?

And yet one stupid question :)
What's good on using one handed weapon by werewolf? It's for blocking?

[electricblue]

OK so how far did you get your fire wolf?
And what skills did you use before your fire claws got strong enough?
Fire claws do not make a physical damage don't they?

And yet one stupid question :)
What's good on using one handed weapon by werewolf? It's for blocking?

all builds killed hell baal.

the fire wolf has 20 points in fury, and that carries you till fc is strong enough.
when you hit with fc, you do some physical damage.
1h for PvM is usually for resists&dr
1h for PvP is for many pusposes including increased dmg, block, dr etc..