Where Things Are Going

[Bolty]

I'm going to make a mistake and go on record here with my current plans for this website, so you can be aware of them and get on my case if I fall behind. So here goes:

As we all know, Diablo II is far along on the winding-down of popularity scale which occurs for all games; as they get older, all but the most die-hards move on to newer games. You can see evidence of the die-hards in our current Diablo 1 forum, with guys such as Lemming holding down the fort and helping those still (amazingly!) new to the game learn its ins and outs.

For our community to keep kicking, we need to adopt a new game. There's no easy choice this time like there was with Diablo II, the direct sequel to the game this site was started for. Currently, Guild Wars is looking like the frontrunner as the game Lurkers are most excited about, but there's been little chance to get a deep hands-on look at it to be sure that there's enough there worth getting our hands dirty with. World of Warcraft, Blizzard's latest offering, seems an obvious choice for our next game on the surface; however, it's an MMORPG, quite a different beast than the Diablo-style games we love.

Personally, I'm having a blast with WoW during its long beta test. It's insanely fun and addictive as any MMORPG. Hopefully many of you have chosen to get into the Open Beta so you can get a good look at it and make up your own minds. Perhaps there's enough room in both Guild Wars and WoW for our site to cover both games, but I've found that sites that try to cover too much at once get too spread out.

Another issue facing us is the fact that over the years, many of the regulars here have really gotten to know each other. While this site is first and foremost a strategy site, we are inevitably becoming more guild-ish in nature (despite my strong resistance to this becoming a guild site). I'm not so sure that this is a bad idea anymore, but as I've stated many times, I don't want to run a guild. This ties into discussion below, so bear with me.

Currently my plans for this site involve getting this dang forum properly skinned, and moving the main site over to a content management system. I'm sorry it's taking so long to skin this forum and you've had to deal with the agonizing BLUENESS of it all lately. I basically suck at skinning and site layout designing. It can take me months to come up with a new look. Fortunately, I'm not coming up with a new look here, but applying the styles of the old look to the new interface is still a slow process for me. Thanks for your patience.

My timeline is as follows: by December 31, (yes, THIS year) I want to have the entire main site switched over to Mambo Open Source ( http://www.mamboserver.com ), a content management system that seems to fit what this site needs like a glove. It's a very good CMS that's had years of strong open source development support and constant updates. To implement this, I'll need to install, setup, and skin (argh) the software with a decent, spiffy look. The site will move to just one look and one "section," instead of its current setup with a section for each game. Then I have to complete the time-consuming (but easier than skinning) process of taking all the articles, news, and data of the site and placing it into the Mambo database.

At that point, I will be dusting my hands off and finally considering myself "free" of the content of this site. Content people for the site will be able to add news and articles much more easily than before without requiring any technical HTML knowledge *at all*. Other great features will include the ability for those submitting strategy articles to have direct access to their article - i.e. the Lurker Lounge would become their hosting base for their guide, which they could log in and edit at any time to keep it up to date without having to submit it to an admin who then could take weeks to update it (which happened in the past, unfortunately). I will fully relegate myself to a technical role - applying upgrades, monitoring the server, maintenance, finances, etc: the "extra crap" that webmasters have to put up with alongside the fun of running the site. For me, it's actually a little fun, but for most people, it's a huge barrier to them running their own site. I'll free that up. At this point, we will likely be moving to a new game and I will be accepting applications for people to "run" a game on this site by being the content admin. We may have more than one admin for a game if it works out better that way. The admins would run the show for their game, deciding on all content, administering the game's forums here, etc, just as Lemming and Refrigerator do now for Diablo and Diablo II, respectively.

It'll be an exciting time for the site and for me personally. I know that quite a few of the posters here would make great site admins if they wanted to be. Some have already inquired into it, and I had told them to hold off until getting this new system installed. That was almost a year ago! (ack) But another thing I'm considering opening up is the possibility of a guild for these games, with guild admins controlling a WoW or Guild Wars guild through this site. Obviously the emphasis on the guild would be the inclusion of people who enjoy the strategy aspect of these games more than the "W3 H4VE 400 MEMB3RZ W3 R0XXX0R!" guild people you see on these games, but the guild leaders would have full control over the direction of their guilds. We've had a loose Lurker Lounge guild during the beta, divided between two servers. It's been pretty fun so far, if small.

One of the challenges I've already completed so far was moving this site to a new host on a Linux operating system that I've had no experience with before (that was fun). However, some of the challenges I'm still facing to get this all done by December 31:

1) Skinning this forum software
2) Installing and configuring Mambo 4.5.1a
3) Skinning Mambo
4) Moving all current content over to the Mambo system
5) Developing a new logo

Yes, a new logo. This site has NO logo, when you think of it. A few months back I has asked around for a logo and a number of Lurkers came up with some great submissions (thanks, Deebye). But what is needed is something more than just text or letters - something with an image (that's not copyrighted) that can be incorporated with the Lurker Lounge text in some way. What would be cool would be:

a) A logo similar to the top of the LL pages now, with the text - but some cool image either behind the text or incorporated into the text
B) A button - something smaller with height and width being equal, with perhaps just "LL" in it
c) All with a "gothic" look that fits the theme of a gaming website
d) The willingness of its creator to donate the work free of charge to the Lounge

Finally, keep in mind that installing and moving over the data of the site to the Mambo CMS is more important to me than skinning its appearance, because it will enable me to move this site forward to its next era faster. I'd hate to wait so long getting this done that WoW and Guild Wars are both released and we have no support in place for them. Do note that I'm geared up and running to move the LL to its next major age: our third game, a new "paradigm" if you will, where I will no longer be running this show when it comes to the individual games. All of this needs to be in place by January 1, 2005.

If some of you are thinking, "what can I do to help," there are a couple of things that I could use help on:

1) being patient with me
2) considering being a content (site) admin for an upcoming game
3) working on developing a possible template (skin) for the main site in the Mambo Content Management System - see http://www.mamboserver.com and http://www.mamboportal.com for lots of info, guides, and articles on how to create templates for this software - imagine how neat it would be to develop the look of this website and know that it's YOUR design! (p.s. people actually make decent side/hobby money developing templates for Mambo and selling them, since this software's pretty popular, so this would be good practice)
4) start writing strategy guides for WoW or Guild Wars when you feel you can. This site is ultimately judged by the quality of its strategy news and articles. The LL will be able to host your guide and give you access to edit it as you please to keep it always-updated. Imagine being known throughout the WoW community as THE expert of some facet of the game - all it takes is the willingness to create the definitive guide to something and get it all down in text for that to happen, even if you're not the most knowledgeable out there (*cough*, Bolty's High Level Warrior Guide) about the subject matter! In other words, "(s)he who writes it gets the credit, muhahaha." Because then, other experts will give you advice to tweak your guide and make it even better. Oh no, my secret's out! :)
5) getting on my case if things fall behind. Note that this conflicts with point #1. Crap.

Overall, what I'm asking for is community involvement - any help that is offered, I'll take. In the past, I've shunned help, mostly because I'm a "do-it-my-own-way-dammit" personality ("no, REALLY?" some of you are thinking), but that needs to change if we're going to progress into a new game.

Thanks for reading. Feel free to reply with public comments, or email/PM if you need to get in touch with me in private.

-Bolty

[DeeBye]

Wow, looks like you have a lot of food on your plate right now. I am looking forward to the exciting new changes.

Yes, a new logo.  This site has NO logo, when you think of it.  A few months back I has asked around for a logo and a number of Lurkers came up with some great submissions (thanks, Deebye).  But what is needed is something more than just text or letters - something with an image (that's not copyrighted) that can be incorporated with the Lurker Lounge text in some way.
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Finding a decent image that was not copyrighted was where I hit a brick wall. I can make Photoshop do stuff, but I don't have enough artistic talent to actually draw something new from scratch. I tried Google Image Searching for stuff, but everything I found was either 1) copyrighted or 2) ugly. There are no decent medieval weapons images on the internet in the public domain. At least, I was never able to find anything even remotely appropriate. I also wanted to avoid using something that everyone has seen a hundred times before, just because it was one of the rare few public domain images. Oh look, that website uses that public domain image of a sword in it's logo. EXCITING!

I am now off to read up about Mambo Open Source.

[Roland]

If some of you are thinking, "what can I do to help," there are a couple of things that I could use help on:

1) being patient with me
2) considering being a content (site) admin for an upcoming game
3) working on developing a possible template (skin) for the main site in the Mambo Content Management System - see http://www.mamboserver.com and http://www.mamboportal.com for lots of info, guides, and articles on how to create templates for this software - imagine how neat it would be to develop the look of this website and know that it's YOUR design!  (p.s. people actually make decent side/hobby money developing templates for Mambo and selling them, since this software's pretty popular, so this would be good practice)
4) start writing strategy guides for WoW or Guild Wars when you feel you can.  This site is ultimately judged by the quality of its strategy news and articles.  The LL will be able to host your guide and give you access to edit it as you please to keep it always-updated.  Imagine being known throughout the WoW community as THE expert of some facet of the game - all it takes is the willingness to create the definitive guide to something and get it all down in text for that to happen, even if you're not the most knowledgeable out there (*cough*, Bolty's High Level Warrior Guide) about the subject matter!  In other words, "(s)he who writes it gets the credit, muhahaha."  Because then, other experts will give you advice to tweak your guide and make it even better.  Oh no, my secret's out!  :)
5) getting on my case if things fall behind.  Note that this conflicts with point #1.  Crap.

-Bolty
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1) Easy enough. I'm a patient individual - I can give you patience until I croak. ;) I understand how hard it is to run a site, small or large. Take all the time you need. Ultimately, this is still YOUR ball game, so don't let the fans direct your game flow TOO much. ;)
2) Done and done. I have no access to the beta as of yet, but I intend to be a WoW subscriber from day one. I have minimal interest in Guild Wars as of yet (PvP has never interested me at all outside of direct-competition games like FPSes), and I don't see that changing much before release, so consider me a die-hard WoW fan for the time being. ;) I just hope my limited finances can cope - I've had to temporarily drop two MMOs already, which I am still itching to get back to.
3) I suck at computer graphics. Period.
4) See point #2 - no access to the game, yet. If / When I do get access, I will start writing up my usual notes. If any gems come about, I'll save them for future use.
5) Don't look to me for a kick in the rear - just look to me for a pat on the back and an ice cold brew to help you keep going. ;)

As always, I'll do whatever I can. And, as always, thanks beyond words for all you've done Bolty. You always say it's the people at this site that make it what it is, not you, but were it not for you starting this place all those years ago, none of us would be here. Never forget that, and never forget how much we all love and appreciate your hard work and dedication, through all the trials of time. You have a thousand unnamed friends - we'll stick by you through and through, and remember you for all the good you've done; never the bad.

[TaMeOlta]

I'm looking forward to New Skin .... this white stuff looks ..... cold ..... ;)

Thank you very much Bolty for keepin' this place goin :D - no matter which game becomes the main focus , I'm still here because of your regulars and old-timers :D

[WarLocke]

Does liking this blue skin/theme make me strange? :wacky:

I find myself checking the SA forums more frequently than the Lounge nowadays, since I'm no longer active in the gaming communities the Lounge covers (D1/2). But rest assured, I'll probably be all over the Guild Wars discussion once I've had a taste of the game (whether it be in any open beta that's run or retail).

I don't see myself playing WoW, both because I feel like I'm 'burned out' on fantasy MMORPGs, and because I have a personal 'one MMORPG at a time' rule since I don't have infinite pockets - and City of Heroes will hold my attention for a while to come, I imagine.

So, uh, rambling aside, good luck with the plans Boltster. I salute you!

[Walkiry]

I don't see myself playing WoW, both because I feel like I'm 'burned out' on fantasy MMORPGs, and because I have a personal 'one MMORPG at a time' rule since I don't have infinite pockets - and City of Heroes will hold my attention for a while to come, I imagine.

Which pretty much echoes my own position. CoH is in fact my first MMOG, and I just can't see myself playing yet another "Magic and Swords" game like D/D2 (although I do freshen them up from time to time to whack a couple of things).

Funyy thing is, if I hadn't gotten into CoH I'd be playing Spellforce like a maniac right now, and more likely would have proposed that lovely game as our next one (although it's kind of a mix with a RTS, so it'd have been... weird ;) ).

As far as helping, I suck at drawing, graphics, skinning or anything else related to it. I'm a halfway decent programmer though, although I get the feeling Bolty doesn't need that.

I'll nevertheless be checking Guild Wars when I can get my hands on it. WoW? Not very likely.

[Refrigerator]

Good news! :)

Well, as soon as I have some free time (next week, maybe) I'll check out the skinning thing, and I may as well submit something for the logo.

btw, Deebye: I have a secret weapon: my very artistic sister, who happens to owe me a favor or two...! :)

[DeeBye]

I forgot about this LL logo I made a while back:

I guess I thought it was funny enough to save.

I also tried to do a decent tshirt-type graphic, and this was as far as I got (image linked due to hugeness - 1000x1000 pixels). The sword image is a copyrighted one, so it's unusable. I just used it as a placeholder until I found something better, which I never did. I ditched the project.

Anyhow, I guess what I am trying to say is that I'd love to work on a LL logo, but I really NEED an original graphic produced by an actual artist. It should be something simple, and should be something that scales well. Too much shading and too many colours make a graphic hard to scale.

Letters and text do not a recognizable logo make (Coca Cola excluded). A simple graphical image does (Nike swoosh). I can't draw for crap, but I can take a drawn image and do all sorts of wonderful things to it to make any number of wonderful logos, banners, buttons, street signs, Monday Night Football commercials, and "do not remove" tags for mattresses.

To make a long story short, we need to decide on what sort of image (in the literal sense) that could possibly represent the Lurker Lounge, and have someone draw one. I've been playing around with sword images, but I'm sure that there are lots of other options we could could chose from.

BTW, I vote hot pink for the new forum skin.

[Chaerophon]

First of all, that is hilarious, but I doubt if many people actually caught it... :D

Anyways, this:

Reminded me of this ever-so-lovely '80's throwback :rolleyes: :



Which made me think... apend an (obligatory) sword-wielding strat-nerd in place of the cat and you might have yourself a winner! (Well, an occasional winner, anyways...)

[NuurAbSaal]

Anyhow, I guess what I am trying to say is that I'd love to work on a LL logo, but I really NEED an original graphic produced by an actual artist.  It should be something simple, and should be something that scales well. 
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:ph34r:

I think this would be a great image for a logo. Honestly, I can't get enough of them Ninjas. :ph34r: See?

Maybe have them wear glasses, to accentuate our nerdiness :)

Greetings

Nuur

[Fragbait]

On the new logo topic:

I'd vote for a cantle of a screenshot of one of Blizzard's better videos/teasers (this would require a 'yes' from a Blizzard official, of course)
I've got a picture of a dark and somber tavern in my mind, with it's tavern sign wavering in the wind. This image may come from the intro to DI, but it would be nicer from the video teaser to DII where the dark wanderer haunts Marius the first time. (-> better graphics)
The wavering wouldn't quite come across on a still, that's true. But it's a nice idea to have 'THE LURKERLOUNGE' inscribed in an old, moldered font on the sign.
Also we could have an intro like that of 'http://d2network.gamigo.de/', just - well... just weirder, and not only restricted to DII!

:rolleyes: I think I am getting carried away right now... :ph34r:

Anyways, you know what I mean.

Greetings, Fragbait

[Chaerophon]

I'll second that concept - that's a really good idea.

[WarLocke]

Well, if we want an image that works for the Lounge as a whole, why not steal a page from Van Damned and use the Lurker Lounge Lizard as our mascot?

I'm thinking something along the lines of the gecko from those Geiko commercials, but maybe with a fedora and some shades.

Idunno, I've been working since 4 this morning, so this may not seem such a good idea to anyone else. :P

[Bolty]

I can't stress enough though that we cannot use a copyrighted image in any way. The ideal situation would be something that someone with talent in computer art would draw, that could be easily resized and used in lots of different ways.

Consider for later on, if we wanted to have t-shirts or somesuch - we could not use anything with the slightest hint of copyright or we'd risk getting in trouble.

-Bolty

[WarLocke]

I can't stress enough though that we cannot use a copyrighted image in any way.  The ideal situation would be something that someone with talent in computer art would draw, that could be easily resized and used in lots of different ways.

Consider for later on, if we wanted to have t-shirts or somesuch - we could not use anything with the slightest hint of copyright or we'd risk getting in trouble.

-Bolty
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I wasn't suggesting we use a modified version of the Geiko gecko (assuming you were 'speaking' to me), I was just using it as a visual example. Of course, If you want to stay away from anything even close to a copyrighted image, that's understandable - but that makes the picking's slim indeed.

[LochnarITB]

Although it is somewhat been-there-done-that, here is another concept for a logo. It would be fairly easy (for someone with talent) to make into a 2 color outline/stylized version suitable for t-shirts/mugs/toilet bowl brushes. (note: graphics are ©Blizzard and are used for example only)

[DeeBye]

Although it is somewhat been-there-done-that, here is another concept for a logo.  It would be fairly easy (for someone with talent) to make into a 2 color outline/stylized version suitable for t-shirts/mugs/toilet bowl brushes.  (note: graphics are ©Blizzard and are used for example only)

http://www.arewehavingfunyet.com/diablo2/logo1.gif http://www.arewehavingfunyet.com/diablo2/logo2.gif
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I really like the shield and weapon idea, and I think that a silhouette of something like that would be very recognisable even at a small scale. At larger image sizes, the shield would make an excellent background to mount text on.

I'm not particularly enamoured with the idea of crossed one-handed axes, but we can discuss particulars like that later.

I spent about 30 seconds Google Image Searching and another 10 minutes Photoshopping to come up with a 2-colour silhouette image based on your idea. Neither image is public domain, but it's a decent proof of concept.

(yes, I know that the outline of the swords looks a little "bubbley" in parts, but this was a rush job and can be easily cleaned up)

[Flaming June]

Yes, a new logo.  This site has NO logo, when you think of it.  A few months back I has asked around for a logo and a number of Lurkers came up with some great submissions (thanks, Deebye).  But what is needed is something more than just text or letters - something with an image (that's not copyrighted) that can be incorporated with the Lurker Lounge text in some way.  What would be cool would be:

a) A logo similar to the top of the LL pages now, with the text - but some cool image either behind the text or incorporated into the text
B) A button - something smaller with height and width being equal, with perhaps just "LL" in it
c) All with a "gothic" look that fits the theme of a gaming website
d) The willingness of its creator to donate the work free of charge to the Lounge

Interesting. Are there specific restrictions as far as dimension proportions and file size are to be concerned with this project? And, is the "gothic" theme a must for it? I have a few ideas but not all of them have a necessarily dark, serious atmosphere.

Additionally, is a new title header for the main page being considered? There's something that would likely be too complex for a logo that I may be able to contribute based on another thought swimming in my head.

[DeeBye]

Are there specific restrictions as far as dimension proportions and file size are to be concerned with this project?
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The way I see it, the only restriction is that the logo must be recognisable at very low dimensions. Think avatar sized, or even lower. Simplicity is really key. It's easy enough to make recognisable logos at higher dimensions, because you have much more space to work with. At higher dimensions, you can also add all sorts of other things like extended tracts of text and inset images.

Check out http://www.brandsoftheworld.com to get a feel for what makes a good logo. The best ones are simple and small.

Here's an example:

It's only 100x36 pixels, but it's instantly recognisable. I think that's what we are shooting for here.

[LavCat]

Thanks, Bolty, as always. Whatever site technology is fun for you and makes your life easier is OK with me. My two wishes would be text that is easy to read and maybe a little more PM storage space.

I have gotten into WoW, and I would hope our little WoW guild could continue into retail. The guild seems to run itself and if there have been any problems I am unaware of them. My only complaint is that often I am the only guild person on, at least until Ruvanal wakes up.

Surely there must be someone here with artistic talent who could donate original artwork to the site. My little boy did a good job with the design of the D2 guild site he ran, but I suppose he can volunteer himself if he is interested.