Batman Begins

[Hammerskjold]

>Another problem with the original Batman movies is that, in large part, they were made off the sudden popularity of the Frank Miller graphic novel The Dark
Knight Returns.

I agree that Burton pretty much stole most of the look from TDKR, but unfortunately left out everything else that was worth stealing from the book.

>Unfortunately much of this book contains the same type of charcter descrepancies as the movies do. Being as that novel is more of a What-If? story I don't think any continuity based book, or movie for that matter, should base much of it's mood/character on them.

I gotta ask, why not? I personally rather have a good story that features Batman, than a boring story\toy commercial that slavishly follows 'continuity'.

> And it really is unfortunate because a much better Frank Miller book to base a Batman movie on would be his work in Batman: Year One. I still get a little nauseus when i'm at the comic shop and i hear some crankshaft going on about how great TDKR is and 2 seconds later it becomes apparant that their whole concept of what the Batman universe is about is based on this one book.

I liked TDKR. I liked Year One. I liked most of the Neal Adams Batman. And even though I don't think it's one of his better work, I liked Alan Moore's the Killing Joke. But really when it comes down to it, Batman is a pretty broad character. He can exist anywhere from the ridicilously campy to the nearly psychopathic.

And I'm a bit curious, so what if some person's whole concept of the Bat-universe is derived from TDKR? Doesn't that say something about the book's worth if it's accessible to more than just avid bat-fans? And while I understand some people's view on continuity, in the bigger picture most people really only care about the quality of the story.

>I also think that any writer or director that might attempt to takle a batman film would sorely lacking if they didn't spend a good bit of time studying the works of Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale in The Long Halloween and Dark Victory as well as the graphic novel Arkham Asylum as it is the rawest batman book ever made and as close to the core of these characters as you are likely to get.

All those are good, though where's the Paul Dini and Bruce Timm's interpretations? Even if they admit they do not strictly follow the official DC comic continuity ;P the way they handle character and story is worth the study in my opinion.

[DeeBye]

If I became a Mystery Man and joined the team, I'd be the Amazing Scratch— master of billiard combat.
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I'd be Bald Guy. I'm not bald, but my secret Mystery Men identity would be. I would use all kinds of elaborate polishes to shine my head to a mirror finish. I'd practice controlling the muscles beneath my shiny scalp to allow me to reflect ambient light in a concentrated burst towards my enemies. I would reflect a wide-angle stream of light to blind a group of enemies, or focus it into a narrow beam to burn individuals like the tiny ants that they are.

[Rhydderch Hael]

There's always Padlock Man, the man who uses an extensive collection of padlocks to thwart the efforts of his enemies by securing doors and items in place. And, as a last-ditch effort, he can hurl those padlocks at his foes.

He keeps his large arsenal locked into the loops and pockets that line his cape, with every combination memorized and every key kept on an insanely large key-ring. Naturally, his weakness maninfests itself when he's flustered and cannot remember the right combination to the right lock, or ends up fumbling with all the keys in his collection and subsequently cannot unlock his locks from his cape.


Another potential super-hero: Santa Claus. That's right. Kris Kringle himself. The story goes that Santa, with his Christmas wish lists filled with nothing but brand-name requests, no longer finds it neccessary to maintain a workshop. If every kid is asking for a brand-name toy, there's just no need for the elves and the shop anymore. Add to that the global distrubution and warehousing capacities of the modern world, and Santa finds himself with a problem: too much free time. He still delivers presents at Christmas, but since he no longer makes those toys himself, he has nothing else to do for the rest of the year but take up crime-fighting.

Seriously! He's got the flying sleigh, he knows if you've been bad or good, and as long as the evil villians' lairs have a chimney and fireplace, no stronghold is impenetrable to him. I wouldn't daresay call him an "action hero". Obesity and fur suits are not conducive to great execution of the martial arts (unless you count the actual practice of the martial arts to be his own death sentence).

[Doc]

There's always Padlock Man, the man who uses an extensive collection of padlocks to thwart the efforts of his enemies by securing doors and items in place. And, as a last-ditch effort, he can hurl those padlocks at his foes.

He keeps his large arsenal locked into the loops and pockets that line his cape, with every combination memorized and every key kept on an insanely large key-ring. Naturally, his weakness maninfests itself when he's flustered and cannot remember the right combination to the right lock, or ends up fumbling with all the keys in his collection and subsequently cannot unlock his locks from his cape.
Another potential super-hero: Santa Claus. That's right. Kris Kringle himself. The story goes that Santa, with his Christmas wish lists filled with nothing but brand-name requests, no longer finds it neccessary to maintain a workshop. If every kid is asking for a brand-name toy, there's just no need for the elves and the shop anymore. Add to that the global distrubution and warehousing capacities of the modern world, and Santa finds himself with a problem: too much free time. He still delivers presents at Christmas, but since he no longer makes those toys himself, he has nothing else to do for the rest of the year but take up crime-fighting.

Seriously! He's got the flying sleigh, he knows if you've been bad or good, and as long as the evil villians' lairs have a chimney and fireplace, no stronghold is impenetrable to him. I wouldn't daresay call him an "action hero". Obesity and fur suits are not conducive to great execution of the martial arts (unless you count the actual practice of the martial arts to be his own death sentence).
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What the heck are you talking about, being fat and unable to do martial arts... Sumo wrestling is considered a martial art you know... It takes years and years, a lifetime of training and conditioning to become a Sumo Master.

He could be Sumo Santa! Or Sumo Claus. Or something.

I really shouldn't mock Sumo wrestling, considering the sort of respect I hold for the artform. :P

[DeeBye]

I really shouldn't mock Sumo wrestling, considering the sort of respect I hold for the artform. :P
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It's just a bunch of fat guys in diapers slapping each other and throwing handfulls of salt around :rolleyes:

[Mithrandir]

My oh my did I hate Mystery Men. I think I just have a natural aversion to Ben Stiller or something. Zoolander is a great movie, but pretty much everything else he has done I just can't stand.

There's a certain point where you a bunch of parodied super heroes. And then there's a whole 'nother line you cross when you have "The Spleen".

[Doc]

It's just a bunch of fat guys in diapers slapping each other and throwing handfulls of salt around :rolleyes:
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Actually, Sumo wrestling is most closely related to Aikido. It's more than slaps and salt. It's tactical throws, how to absorb crushing blows, how to absorb and redirect energies that your foe sends in your direction. Energies in this sense not being mystical forces or fireballs, get your head out of the arcades for a moment. When you go to slap somebody, there is a lot of energy in that person's arm. Forward momentum. An Aikido student will know how to absorb, and then redirect that energy back into it's originating source, usually with absurd results. Like say, little tiny old man or child capable of throwing a big giant brute 10 to 20 feet acrossed the room. Or, if violence isn't your thing, you can absorb these energies into your body and allow them to harmlessly disapate into nothing. This style of Aikido is known as absorbtion, or the Water Technique. It is a brutal art. You have 2x4s smashed over your face, you get strangled, beaten, kicked, boxed in the groin, and you learn to take each incoming blow and completely internalize it so it becomes harmless. It is a very different school of thought and action from deflective Aikido. With the absorbtion and redirection of energies, you can unleash a horrible can of whoopass on your foes, channeling their own attack and turning it back on them in ways they never imagined. I once saw a Sumo break a 4x4 wooden post by slapping it from about 3 inches away. To be able to channel the entire strength and force of his whole body in such a short span of space... And he blew this thing to splinters. Apply this same type of force to a human body and you would break every rib, shatter their spine, and the resulting shock waves would probably shatter their pelvis as well. From three inches away. Anybody not schooled to absorb these sorts of blows would be FUBARed.

Bruce Lee pushed these theories to their limits, and scrawny little thing he was, he could send people flying with a punch from one inch away, or shatter wooden planks.

It's sad that Sumo wrestling has become a form of public ridicule, just another pop culture joke. :(

[Rhydderch Hael]

Screw Ben Stiller! Actually, you guys can screw Ben Stiller. I'll screw— well, I already had my say into that matter...

I just have a thing for girls in black who talk to the dead.

I found William H. Macy's 'Shoveler' a much more visible leader than Mr. Furious. He was the one asking the questions when they confronted Casanova Frankenstein on the road. It was he who rallied the gang for the final battle (showcasing one of but two instances in my personal cinematic history where food was used as a symbol of defeat— fresh chocolate cake being the other). It was he with the greatest emotional stake and the most to lose in his super-hero lifestyle. Plus, he got the big physical fight scene in the mansion.

And Casanova Frankenstein... well, I saw Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl before Mystery Men. I know now where Geoffrey Rush's character study on Captain Barbosa was born— and surpised to find that Barbosa was the less-wacky version of the two villians.

There was one quote that kind of hit a little too close to home for me, though. "...You try and say pithy things, but your wit is a hinderance and therefore nothing is provocative— just mixed metaphors. Doesn't that make you angry?..."

That, or it was "...you dress in the manner of a male prostitute..." I forget which.

...There's a certain point where you a bunch of parodied super heroes. And then there's a whole 'nother line you cross when you have "The Spleen".
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Hey! Not my fault that 9 out of 10 gyspy curses give their victims a bad case of gas.

Reminds me of another super-hero motif: a Chinese chef who bungled an order to tragic consequences.

You see, there was this special arrangement between his restuarant and this particularly wealthy and powerful customer to have a fortune cookie specially prepared with a little slip of paper proposing marriage to his longtime girlfriend. The cookie would be given to the lucky lady as a rather glib way to pop the big question.

Well, this chef accidentally mixed the fortune cookies up. The results— utter disaster! The cookie containing the proposal ended up in the hands of another woman at a nearby table, and its intended recipient got a commonplace cookie in its stead. The companion to the woman who actually received the proposal found himself in a most dire social circumstance— seeing as this was his first date with a woman who was, he would soon learn, of such psychological vulnerability as to cling steadfastly to any and all conclusions that were presented to her. The woman who was supposed to receive the cookie, took one look at the commotion that erupted at this nearby table and asked rather heatedly to her boyfriend why he never did anything like that for her— sparking off a tempest of pent-up disappointments and heated words that ultimately ended rather badly for all concerned.

'All concerned', of course, meant our hapless chef/super-hero, who was blacklisted and fired from the restaurant, tortured and killed in a high-tech nuclear laboratory run by the irate millionaire jilter, and then buried in a shallow grave deep in the desert— only to be brought back to life through mystical power by a Native American shaman who was grateful that his ditzy daughter had suddenly found herself a husband in Champion City (apparently the lucky girl was propositioned at dinner on the first date...)

Resurrected, he now uses the skills he honed in the art of Chinese gourmet to battle evil in all its guises. What those powers are— I haven't figured that out yet. But I suspect it has something to do with a wok and cans of MSG.

[Rhydderch Hael]

What the heck are you talking about, being fat and unable to do martial arts... Sumo wrestling is considered a martial art you know... It takes years and years, a lifetime of training and conditioning to become a Sumo Master.

He  could be Sumo Santa! Or Sumo Claus. Or something.

I really shouldn't mock Sumo wrestling, considering the sort of respect I hold for the artform. :P
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Nay, the mark against Santa is his sedentary training and atrocious dietary habits. A man so used to staying bundled in cold weather within the confines of a workshop is hardly in the practice of either aerobic or strength training. A steady intake of cookies and whole milk is hardly helping matters, too.

Santa will defeat his enemies by infusing their hearts with the cheerful warmth of the Christmas spirit... but he might have some problem going up against the Yakuza or the like, I imagine.

Bah, when that fails— candy canes sharpened to a fine point!!! Pomander grenades! ("Arrgh! I'm hit! That thing blasted cloves into my rear!") Blackjacks made out of fireplace stockings stuffed with fruitcake!

[Rhydderch Hael]

...  The key villains are Scarecrow and Ra's Al Ghul.
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Do not read any online movie reviews of the movie. I repeat, DO NOT READ any online movie reviews for this movie.

I came across two separate reviews, on CNN and ABC which, shamelessly and without any regard, gave away spoilers to the late-movie plot conflicts without warning nor note to the readers. Muy importante spoilers, too, concerning the antagonists of the movie.