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kandrathe,Jan 22 2006, 05:51 PM Wrote:What is different about the Music industry that is not true of any employer/employee relationship? Consider the union laborer who builds cars on the Ford assembly line. How much of every truck does that laborer get? How about the artists and software designers at Blizzard? Did they get any royalties on every copy sold?
[right][snapback]99870[/snapback][/right] Hi,
Foul comparison, and I'll tell you why:
Ford doesn't sell their cars because worker T.J. Miller assembled the doors. (In fact they don't sell much anyway these days). Nobody gives a f*** about T.J. Miller, and therefore his share of the profit is very very slim.
Blizzard doesn't sell their games because artist Sam Piper designed the textures for some creatures. Nobody gives a f*** about mister Piper, and therefore his share of the profit is very slim.
Studio's only sell their cds /dvds because Korn / Britney Spears / Madonna created the tracks on them. Every John Doe wants to know why Britney has a pimple on her ass, and if it's big or not. That's why the margin the artists receive should be way bigger than that of an assembly worker. I believe it's about 0.60 ⬠of about 16 ⬠now (while retail gets about 6 ⬠of it, so it's actually 0.60 of 10) which is about 6%. I'm all in for the expenses that the labels have to spend to promote their artists, but I'm saying that artist must at least be entitled 15% of the profit, which would be 1.50 ⬠following my calcs.
Got the point?
Greetings, Fragbait
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01-23-2006, 10:31 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2006, 12:54 PM by eppie.)
Fragbait,Jan 23 2006, 09:01 AM Wrote:Studio's only sell their cds /dvds because Korn / Britney Spears / Madonna created the tracks on them. Every John Doe wants to know why Britney has a pimple on her ass, and if it's big or not. That's why the margin the artists receive should be way bigger than that of an assembly worker. I believe it's about 0.60 ⬠of about 16 ⬠now (while retail gets about 6 ⬠of it, so it's actually 0.60 of 10) which is about 6%. I'm all in for the expenses that the labels have to spend to promote their artists, but I'm saying that artist must at least be entitled 15% of the profit, which would be 1.50 ⬠following my calcs.
Got the point?
Greetings, Fragbait
[right][snapback]99902[/snapback][/right]
Yes that all sounds very nice, but you know that if the managers, producers etc. don't make commercials, nobody buys the CD of Britney Spears etc.etc. And just as you know this, also Britney Spears knows this and that is why she signed the contract that, as most important person who contributed to the CD she only gets a few %.
So I also think the artist should get more, even 50 % if you ask me....but only under the condition that they stop making clever adds to sell expensive stuff to poor highly influencable kids. And that radio stations start playing music that they like, instead of getting paid for playing certain songs etc. etc.
probably people will reply again with "but nobody forces you to buy the CDs" and "they have the law on their side".
So maybe it is time that there will be some laws against selling useless things to people. :blink:
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*sips lemon tea and watches mayhem ensue*
Ahh. Nothing beats a cup of tea.
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[wcip]Angel,Jan 23 2006, Wrote:*sips lemon tea and watches mayhem ensue*
Ahh. Nothing beats a cup of tea.
[right][snapback]99906[/snapback][/right] Coffee PWNS tea. This morning it is Kona. :D
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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eppie,Jan 23 2006, 05:31 AM Wrote:Yes that all sounds very nice, but you know that if the managers, producers etc. don't make commercials, nobody buys the CD of Britney Spears etc.etc. And just as you know this, also Britney Spears knows this and that is why she signed the contract that, as most important person who contributed to the CD she only gets a few %.
So I also think the artist should get more, even 50 % if you ask me....but only under the condition that they stop making clever adds to sell expensive stuff to poor highly influencable kids. And that radio stations start playing music that they like, instead of getting paid for playing certain songs etc. etc.
probably people will reply again with "but nobody forces you to buy the CDs" and "they have the law on their side".
So maybe it is time that there will be some laws against selling useless things to people. :blink:
[right][snapback]99905[/snapback][/right] What is Britany Spears? Does she write all her songs? Does she play all the instruments? Does she even plaster on her own makeup? She sings(when not lip sync'ing), she dances, and she is packaged to appeal. T.J.Miller the designer, or guy on the assembly line works just as hard, is probably smarter, and probably has to think about his job harder than she does. So, since Britany is not self made I see no reason why those who made her, packaged, marketed her shouldn't get their wage.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
![[Image: yVR5oE.png]](http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/329/yVR5oE.png) ![[Image: VKQ0KLG.png]](http://i.imgur.com/VKQ0KLG.png)
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Quote:See you didnt pay attention.
No. Also, don't get confused because I am addressing both yours and Docs positions simultaneously.
I am drawing parallels between tangible property and intellectual property. Since you believe in protecting a persons tangible property, I am attempting to get you to see that it is equally germane to protect their intellectual property. IP takes many forms from design, photographs, writing, lyrics, sheet music, formula, trademarks, and inventions.
Quote:As I said the protections should only be removed for individual use.
What if the intention of the product(music in this case) is personal use? How would it change the music industry? Well, if I were a musician I would stop selling digitally recorded music. Since the first person who obtained the music could legally distribute it to the world for free (personal use), preventing the musician from ever getting compensation for their work.
You can't reproduce my widgets because they are patented. Do you believe you should be able to make widgets for private use and distribute them to anyone who wants a widget for cost? You are denying the inventor of any compensation for your use of their invention.
Generally, if you went out and bought a widget and it wore out and you were facile enough to build one from your defunct model, then no one would really care or be the wiser. This does happen often in the farming area where I grew up. Technically, you are violating the patent protection of the inventor of the widget, but no one I know has ever been charged with making a widget for their own personal use.
You bought the Captain and Tenille's, Love Will Keep Us Together LP album in 1975 and you wanted to play it in your car, so you made a tape copy until you wore it out. Technology changes and so today you digitized it and burned it onto a CD for your CD player, etc. Technically, making a copy is a violation of the copyright, but no I know has ever been charged with making a copy of an album for personal use.
I see no difference between widgets, music, and IP. I think without IP protection the world would be a much more dishonest, paranoid, and secretive place. IP protection allows people to share their creativity openly without the risk of their creations being co-opted by the unscrupulous.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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kandrathe,Jan 23 2006, 02:25 PM Wrote:Technology changes and so today you digitized it and burned it onto a CD for your CD player, etc. Technically, making a copy is a violation of the copyright, but no I know has ever been charged with making a copy of an album for personal use.[right][snapback]99937[/snapback][/right]
"Customary Historic Use".
Couple important quotes, just to highlight:
Under it, any device, "whether it's an attached device or the receiver itself" which, "does anything heretofore unheard of with the digital content that it receives," is illegal," declares Ars Technica.
"And if it does anything 'customary' that could also possibly lead to unauthorized redistribution, then it's also illegal. So all the bases are covered!"
"When digital broadcast nirvana finally arrives, the only people who'll be legally authorized to make money off of music and movies are the middlemen at the RIAA and the MPAA."
Hope everyone is happy with their current technology; any new method of using copyrighted files is in danger of being made illegal.
gekko
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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I find it hysterical that nobody has yet defended Sony or faulted Korn for their cry of piracy as stated in my post.
I don't think the "All Piracy BAD!" folks quite know what to make of that situation where piracy was clearly good for the artists.
Here, and other places where this has been discussed, the anti-piracy crowd completely ignores all quotes of the Korn vs Sony case and will say nothing about it because it undermines the whole argument that piracy hurts the artist.
Piracy hurts the industry, and, when used properly, can aid the artist.
And I don't think anybody in their right mind could defend Sony in that situation. Korn was being held in artistic slavery. There was some serious dutch door action going on.
Not a huge fan of Korn or anything, but I am really facinated at how that situation turned out.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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gekko,Jan 23 2006, 02:46 PM Wrote:"Customary Historic Use".
Couple important quotes, just to highlight:
Under it, any device, "whether it's an attached device or the receiver itself" which, "does anything heretofore unheard of with the digital content that it receives," is illegal," declares Ars Technica.
"And if it does anything 'customary' that could also possibly lead to unauthorized redistribution, then it's also illegal. So all the bases are covered!"
"When digital broadcast nirvana finally arrives, the only people who'll be legally authorized to make money off of music and movies are the middlemen at the RIAA and the MPAA."
Hope everyone is happy with their current technology; any new method of using copyrighted files is in danger of being made illegal.
gekko
[right][snapback]99939[/snapback][/right]
Saw that the other day on Fark, almost #$%& my kilt.
Once again, I reinstate, it is better to be a pirate than to join the Navy.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Doc,Jan 23 2006, 01:51 PM Wrote:Saw that the other day on Fark, almost #$%& my kilt.
Once again, I reinstate, it is better to be a pirate than to join the Navy.
[right][snapback]99943[/snapback][/right] You are too old to do the latter, so if you must get nautical, I guess you are stuck with the former.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Occhidiangela,Jan 23 2006, 03:24 PM Wrote:You are too old to do the latter, so if you must get nautical, I guess you are stuck with the former.
Occhi
[right][snapback]99945[/snapback][/right]
That, and as we all know, Naval tradition is nothing more than rum, soddomy, and the lash. :P
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 7,955
Threads: 286
Joined: Feb 2003
That article is mostly one person's opinion. This is his musings on another article, reflecting on a proposed bill -- "Digital Content Protection Act of 2006".
This article give more background of the bill and why we should oppose it. "New and Improved" Draft Broadcast Flag Bill: This Time for TV and Radio
See also; Digital Transition Content Security Act
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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01-24-2006, 03:43 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2006, 03:50 AM by Occhidiangela.)
Doc,Jan 23 2006, 02:26 PM Wrote:That, and as we all know, Naval tradition is nothing more than rum, soddomy, and the lash. :P
[right][snapback]99946[/snapback][/right] If you are going to quote Churchill, please get it right. He was a man who chose his words well.
You say that I am ignoring the time-honored traditions of the Royal Navy?
And what might they be?
I shall tell you in three words. Rum, buggery, and the lash!
Good morning sirs."
- Winston Churchill addressing the Sea Lords, 1912
Sodomy with one d. Dolly Parton with double D. ;)
I note that some UK English speakers use two d's in Soddom, while US English uses just the one. The UK and US are two nations separated by a common language :whistling:
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 1,991
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
Occhidiangela,Jan 23 2006, 10:43 PM Wrote:If you are going to quote Churchill, please get it right. He was a man who chose his words well.
You say that I am ignoring the time-honored traditions of the Royal Navy?
And what might they be?
I shall tell you in three words. Rum, buggery, and the lash!
Good morning sirs."
- Winston Churchill addressing the Sea Lords, 1912
Sodomy with one d. Dolly Parton with double D. ;)
I note that some UK English speakers use two d's in Soddom, while US English uses just the one. The UK and US are two nations separated by a common language :whistling:
Occhi
[right][snapback]99968[/snapback][/right]
Whoops, see, I know nothing of naval tradition. :P
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 1,626
Threads: 66
Joined: Feb 2003
Occhidiangela,Jan 23 2006, 12:29 PM Wrote:Coffee PWNS tea. This morning it is Kona. :D
Occhi
[right][snapback]99927[/snapback][/right]
Never really liked coffee. Always preferred some kind of coke for my morning-noon-night caffeine high. Currently, it's Dr. Pepper.
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
The original Heavy Metal Cowâ¢. USDA inspected, FDA approved.
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01-24-2006, 04:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2006, 04:37 AM by DeeBye.)
Artega,Jan 24 2006, 12:27 AM Wrote:Never really liked coffee. Always preferred some kind of coke for my morning-noon-night caffeine high. Currently, it's Dr. Pepper.
[right][snapback]99971[/snapback][/right]
Dr. Pepper is a kind of Coke? You whacky southerners and your whacky sayings :)
I am a tea person now. I used to be into the whole coffee thing until it messed with my health.
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DeeBye,Jan 23 2006, 11:37 PM Wrote:Dr. Pepper is a kind of Coke? You whacky southerners and your whacky sayings :)
I am a tea person now. I used to be into the whole coffee thing until it messed with my health.
[right][snapback]99973[/snapback][/right]
**Glares**
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 3,498
Threads: 412
Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Jan 24 2006, 12:46 AM Wrote:**Glares**
[right][snapback]99976[/snapback][/right]
I think it's cute :D
For the record, people in my corner of the globe call carbonated beverages "pop".
Since Doc and I disagree about most everything on this subject except the piracy itslf, it would be helpful to address us speperatly, or denote who you are adressing.
If someone can build an X-box(I dont like the widget exaple because its too vague in its impllications) in their basement, I am all for letting them.
But dont forget as I said I do see a difference between the physical and information based products. Indeed this hurts people such as Musicians and writers more than manufactures - that is something that doesnt bother me. I the the fairness you try to prescribe to the situation is is a popular but arbitrary construct.
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