The Warcraft III Thread

[Refrigerator]

Ok, well, I'll have mailed you the reply a few minutes after I finish this post. Sorry for the long reply time, but my family went to visit my grandparent's house for a while, so I've been away from computer access etc.

Replay should be in the mail soon, and thanks for the offer! :)

[Archon_Wing]

Refrigeriator's replay can be found here:
Click

[Artega]

I looked into the rules and regulations and it requires that nine other people accept the invitation to the clan within thirty seconds, or the clan won't be officially recognized by Battle.net. So, we'd need nine Lurkers all in the same channel at the same time on Azeroth in order to pull it off :blink:

[Jester]

nt = nice tabard!

Jester

[Munkay]

Life's busy getting back to school, but when I can scrounge up some extra cash I'll be investing in TFT. Till then I am stuck with RoC, but as long as that will work for the clan invitation process, count me as one of the nine.

Cheers,

Munk

[Archon_Wing]

Message me on AIM when you find the other 8 folks. It would be nice if other folks could get access to real-time communication, since PM's aren't the best thing to use. :D

[Swiss Mercenary]

Edit - gah, double post.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Archon - For learning to play the game, try Warcraft Replays. Download the Audio Commentaries, especially the ones by Phreak (well, if you can stand the yawning :P) - the latest ones have many, many very nice tips. That website is an amazing strategy resource - I never would have thought of the Beast Master/Dark Ranger/Merc camp abuse with fast teching Night Elf vs Orc/Human...

The reason those commentaries are so much better then simple replays, is because the commentators not only show you what is done, but explain the reasons for how, when, and why it is done.

As for some beginner tips:

Read through the manual carefully, especially the controls. I'll list some vital control tips:

Use F1, F2, and F3 to select your first, second, or third hero - it saves a LOT of time.

Use Space to go to the last action that took place in the game - your army attacked/unit built/gold mine collapse/etc.

When you have a group of units selected, press Ctrl-1. That puts them in your first control group. To acsess that control group, simply press 1! It works for 0-9. You can even hotkey buildings - for instance, I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it's split down the middle nicely. Hence, I set my altar to control group 6, my main production buildings to group 5, my secondary production to group 4, tertiary to group 3, my main hero + melee units to 1, and my secondary hero + ranged units to 2.

Hold down Alt to see the hit point bars of all units on the battlefield - use this to pick off weakened enem units.

When you have selected several different types of units, such as, say, a Paladin, and 11 footmen, you can quickly switch between the skills of those units. Now, it works like this:

Because the Paladin is a hero, he gets priority in the selection - when you select that group, the skills you can use are paladin skills. However, you may want to suddenly activate Defend. How do you do it? By pressing Tab. Tab cycles through the various unit groups in your selection, so, if you want to quickly switch to your footmen, while maintaining the Paladin in your selection, and doing it quickly, simply press Tab once, and hit your defend key. Then, press Tab again, to switch back to your Paladin. Neat, eh?

Some general things that you should know about the game:

There are several Armour, and damage types in the game (I'm leaving out spells, that all do "Spell" damage, to which heroes, and Mountain Giants are 25% resistant to). Specific damage types counter specific armour types, hence some units are the natural counter to another. Here's a list of those armour and damage types, and the units that use them:

Heavy - the basic melee armour type. It is very weak against magic damage, taking 2x from it, but has no weaknesses, otherwise. Units using this armour are typically First, and Third tier melee, siege units, and Obsidian statues. Note that all of those units are completely demolished by anything doing magic damage (High-tech air for all races but Orc).

Medium - the basic ranged unit armour. It is vulnerable to normal damage, but mildly resistant to piercing, magic, and siege. It is used on workers, ranged units, and Spell Breakers. If you let the enemy melee get anywhere close to something with melee armour, you are in for a world of hurt, as units using it are also not very durable. The Night Elf Mountain Giant is an exception to the rule, due to the wonderfil upgrades it receives.

Light - the typical air armour. It is highly vulnerable to piercing, and magic, hence ranged units are often a good counter to air, as air tends to do reduced to them (Magic and piercing, the only attacks that air units have against ground units do reduced to medium). On the other hand, the more powerful air units (Griffons, Chimera, Frost Wyrms), while vulnerable to piercing absolutely demolish melee armies.

Unarmoured - the typical caster (As well as dryads and huntresses) use this armour. It is highly vulnerable to piercing, and siege, hence siege units, as well as ranged units are often the counter to casters. Due to low caster life, and armour, they tend to go down very quickly, against focus fire.

Fortified - used by buildings (Not towers or burrows! They have light or heavy!), and Siege Engines. It is highly resistant to any form of damage, except siege - one of the reasons why Siege Engines are so difficult to destroy.

Hero - used by... Heroes. It's resistant to piercing, magic, and siege.

Damage types:

Normal - used by all melee units, except Raiders, and also used by Huntresses. It is the natural counter to ranged units, as medium armour takes extra, but be warned - ranged units also do extra damage to huntresses...

Piercing - used by ranged units, Wind Riders, Gargoyles, Dragonhawks, Dryads, and Griffon riders - it is the typical counter against enemy air/casters.

Magic - used by casters, Frost Wyrms, Griffons, and Chimera - the counter to melee.

Siege - used by, well, siege units. Most optimal against casters, Huntresses, Dryads, or buildings.

Keep an eye out on the armour/damage types of the units on the battlefield, and use selective targeting. Instead of letting your huntresses attack enemy knights, while your chimera are attempting to kill riflemen, make your chimera attack his knights, and the huntresses go for his riflemen - such micromanagment can easily turn the tide of a battle.

I think those are the two main things that newer players should keep in mind of - feel free to ask for more, here or on USWest - I'm MasterNightfall there.

[Archon_Wing]

How do heck do I cast something like starfall? Do you hold position or something? :o

I'm hung up over hero harassing/early rushing. As human or night elf, would it be worth it to build towers?

I already know about control groups pretty well from starcraft, but I do have to get used the subgroups feature.

I still have to get use to the shortcut keys. For some reason, I have trouble remembering them. "A" for Altar... everything else is a blur. :P
Thanks :)

[Swiss Mercenary]

Read on for verything you need to know about channeling spells, but were afraid to ask.

What are channeling spells?

Channeling spells require the caster to stand still, and perform the casting animation for the duration of the spell.

How do I use channeling spells?

If a channeling spell requires you to select a target, simply press the hotkey for that spell, and target a point on the ground, or a unit. If it is an untargetable spell, like Starfall, simply press the hotkey, and enjoy the show.

Does my unit have to stand still when channeling?

Yes.

I made my hero channel a spell, but then, when he was about to die, I tried to move him, but he wouldn't stop!

The reason for that, is because Warcraft 3 ignores commands given to units channeling spells, unless that specific unit is selected. Hence, if your Archmage is casting blizzard, but you have him selected with a bunch of riflemen, you can do your fansy footwork with your rifles, while the Archmage keeps casting. The only way to interrupt your own unit's channeling, is by giving it a specific order - the order has to be given to that unit, and that unit alone. So, if you suddenly realise that you need to move, quickly, you need to press F1 (or 2 or 3) to select your archmage (or click on him), and tell him to move somewhere, or attack something.

What interrupts channeling spells?

Well, here's the list of spells that can interrupt channeling.

Human:

Mountain King - Storm bolt, Bash
Archmage - Mass Teleport. No, casting it on the enemy won't interrupt their channeling, but if you cast it on a friendly unit that is channeling, it WILL stop, wasting the spell.

Undead:

Crypt Lord - Impale
Dread Lord - Sleep

Night Elf:

Keeper of the Grove - Entangle

Orc:

Tauren Chieftain - War stomp
Witch Doctor - Stasis ward

*Raider* - Ensnare (Just one more reason to get ensnare, and 2 raiders, if you are getting a beastiary.)

Neutral heroes:

Dark Ranger - Silence. This is the best interrupter, ever, because it's AoE, and it prevents the enemy from casting any more spells, to boot.

Goblin Tinkerer - That missle skill of his, forget what it's called...


What are the channeling spells?

There are several channeling spells. Some require targets, others do not. The list is, as follows:

Human:

All human channeling spells require a target.

Archmage - Brilliance, Mass Teleport.
Blood Mage - Flamestrike, Drain Mana.

Undead:

Lich: Death and Decay

Banshee: Posession is a short duration channeling spell, as of the latest patch.

Both of those spells require targets. DnD is AoE, while Posession is unit-targetable.

Orc:

Far Seer: Earthquake
Shadow Hunter: Big Bad Voodoo

Earthquake is targetable AoE, Big Bad Voodoo is untargetable AoE, such as an aura.

Night Elf:

Keeper of the Grove: Tranquility
Priestess of the Moon: Starfall

Both are untargetable AoE, similar to an aura.

Neutral:

Dark Ranger - Drain Life

Pit Lord - Rain of fire

Beastmaster - Stampede

Naga Sea Witch - Tornado

[Sir_Die_alot]

There are 3 basic types of spell castings: point target, unit target, and no target. Then there are 2 ways these can be done: instant and channeling. Starfall is a no target channeling spell, which means you click the starfall button and your hero will cast the spell continually until time runs out, your hero is hit by a interrupting spell (stormbolt, entangling roots, ect), or you order it to stop casting the spell.*

*If a unit channeling a spell is in a group and you order that group to move, the channeling unit will continue to channel the spell.

As for towers, human towers have a fair amount of use, nightelf ones do not. The ancient protector's attack rate and hitpoints just don't warrent their cost which includes the wisp and the time spent making its replacement. <_<

Edit: Swiss, you missed hex for an orc channeling spell interrupter. :)

[Swiss Mercenary]

As for the topic of hero harass:

If you are human, I bet you are having trouble against Orc. I'd dare say that 95% of Orc players know no other opening game "strategy" then Far Seer harass. FS harass is a big topic for various complaints, nerf suggestions, etc, because it's so freaking easy to do. summon wolves. Right click on peon. Run your FS around. Meanwhile, tech, and win.

The best way to counter Far seer harass, IMHO, is make your base much like a Starcraft Terran one - Wall in. Now, since you can't lift off your buildings, you should make a single space, wide enough to fit a hero through. If the harasser is stupid, and takes the bait, he will run into your base, and all you have to do is move a unit into the entrence, and order it to hold position. Then, call to arms, and watch him TP. Or, if he does not enter your base, try to spread the damage out between your peons, militia your lumber harvesters, and rip the wolves apart.

Here's the base build that I'm talking about:

T - Tree

G - Gold mine

. - Empty space

H - Hall

L - You harvest lumber here

r - Arcane tower

M - Farm

A - Altar

B - Barracks

L.TTTTTTTT
L.....G......T
L...........r.T
TBmH.mAT
T.............T
T.............T

The dot in the wall, is your "door". Close it with a militia, or a footmen, and everything inside is trapped. Make sure you rlumber harvesters are inside the wall-in. Not that the tower will be hitting any hero that tries to get in - not a nice prospect.

An alternative is the complete wallin. Leave no gap, but remember to rally your units outside of the wall-in, or they may get stuck inside, and watch where you TP. If the wall is attacked from the outside, use your peasants to repair.

For Night Elf, I'd say, towers are not needed in the early game. Late game, 3 at every expansion is nice, but early game, unnecessary. Instead, position your ancients in such a manner that any units trying to get into your base will have to run by them - and those that dare to try will be slapped pretty badly. If you are really paranoid, you can hide your wisps all over the map, near big creeps, etc - because they do not need to return to your hall, you can harvest lumber anywhere on the map.

Instead of towering up, focus on disabling the hero. If an Orc is harassing with wolves, detonate to kill both them, and the Far Seer's mana (And deny him experience in the meantime.) If it's a blademaster harassing, then get your Dust of Appearence, and try to root him near an ancient, or shadowstrike, and focus fire. Against human Archmage harass, run your wisps, focus on his hero.

One very, very nice trick that pretty much most of the better players use, as Night Elf, is to hire a mercenary with a dispell skill (Purge, or abolish magic), right as they get their hero out (You can also use a wisp). If you are teching, mercs are an excellent way to boost your army, as they do not require any production buildings. Notable ones are Troll Priests, that can both heal, and dispell wolves, for free exp, and Troll Berserkers, who do 33+ average damage per hit. Very nice - just don't lose them. However, don't try to burn too much moon well juice, as you may need it during the day.

Also, whatever happens, if you are being Far Seer harassed, remember this: "Focus fire on the wolves". They have fewer hit points, less armour, nearly no regen, but deal huge damage.

Edit: Also, note that Human towers have Light Armour, when they are in, or upgrading from Scout tower mode, and Heavy armour, after they are done. Hence, early game, if they are not finished, they are highly vulnerable to piercing, and late game, magic damage dealers (Heavy air, Pheonix, etc) just rips them apart.

[Minionman]

Nitpick: for archmage brilliance, you really mean blizzard. Brilliance is the aura.

Also, for the last patch I checked, flamestrike only is channeling between casting and when the flame hits. After the fire hits, you can move the bloodmage around.

[Artega]

Raiders use Medium armor, making them hard to kill with towers, but easy to kill with melee.

Kodo Beasts use Unarmored armor that can be upgraded, much like Huntresses and Dryads. Their attack cannot be upgraded.

Orc Burrows and Watch Towers have Heavy armor. It can be upgraded to Fortified armor with the Reinforced Defenses upgrade at the War Mill at tier three.

All buildings take full damage while being built, making it much smarter to target building structures over built strutcures. A good player will cancel the structure - a poor player will not and will lose the resources. Cancelling a structure returns a percentage of the resource cost, depending on its level of completion, but no higher than fifty percent total.

All Ancients have Heavy armor when uprooted, and Fortified armor when rooted.

Mountain Giants do not gain spell resistance until the Resistant Skin upgrade is researched, and they are a poor choice for melee fighters. Giants are used to attract attention more than anything else, hence their possession of the Taunt ability.

All long-range siege units (Glaive Throwers, Demolishers, Mortar Teams, and Meat Wagons) have Heavy armor that cannot be upgraded. Siege Engines have Fortified armor. Raiders possess Medium armor, and Troll Batriders possess Light armor. Gyrocopters also have Heavy armor, though their lack of durability makes them a poor choice for anything other than scouting unless you build them en masse, in which case they're useful for weakening enemy air units with the Flak Cannons upgrade.

Chaos damage is rare, restricted to the highest-level Creeps (typically 7th and above) and the Infernal summoned unit. It deals full damage to any and all armor types, including Fortified.

EDIT: Most Fel units do Chaos damage - even the 2nd Level Felguards. Be careful creeping in Draenor maps.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Ah, forgot about quite a few of those.

Nit - I believe that the Pit Lord's ultimate summons a demon that does Chaos damage...

[Sir_Die_alot]

Kodo Beasts use Unarmored armor that can be upgraded, much like Huntresses and Dryads. Their attack cannot be upgraded.

No. The only upgrade for Kodos is for their Wardrum aura.

All long-range siege units (Glaive Throwers, Demolishers, Mortar Teams, and Meat Wagons) have Heavy armor that cannot be upgraded.

You can upgrade both Demolisher and Mortar Team armor.

Chaos damage is rare, restricted to the highest-level Creeps (typically 7th and above) and the Infernal summoned unit.

Aside from swiss' nit, the Demon Hunter demon form also has chaos damage.

[Archon_Wing]

Thanks,

Now still waiting on five more people. :lol:

[Archon_Wing]

BTW, as for the audios, how do they work? Do I just start the replay and open the mp3 or is there a simpler way? :)

[Swiss Mercenary]

Listen through the first part of the audio, to get the time at which the game is to be unpaused. Usually 15 seconds, but some are different.

Pause the mp3.

Open the replay, pause it at that moment

Alt-tab, un-pause at 20, 30, 60 seconds before the narrator tells you to "Unpause the game at 15 seconds, in 5, 4, 3, 2,1, unpause," to give yourself some breathing room.

Alt-tab back into War 3, unpause when you are told, and enjoy.
:)

[Chief Fruity]

I'd be interested in playing with you guys. I just started playing it recently, so I'm really a newb, but I like to think that I'm a quick learner. If you guys need an extra person, and you can put up with me learning as I go, I'll join.