Roman Legionaries
#1
Well, after a bit if surfing I happened upon a website with a totally horrid design (madcap colour scheme, improper use of midi background music) that was made by one of those Society for Creative Anachronism freaks.

Nonetheless it actually had a bit of somewhat interesting information, for example some schematics of a prototype repeating crossbow.

It also had a section about Roman legionaries and their tactics and armament. It happened upon me that it could be useful for a somewhat fun Diablo variant with focus on roleplaying.


Let me first announce that this is intended to be a team variant. While many of the characters could probably be played solo with great success there is really no point in being a legionary if you don't belong to no legion.



Anyways, legionaries can be divided into two groups: Legionaries and officers. The officers can be things such as commanders, standard bearers, etc.

A unit of Roman legionaries should never have more officers than basic legionaries. Ideally there should be more basic legionaries, but an equal amount might work out as well.


Legionaries.

Basic legionaries are to be built as directly offensive characters and solid tanks. They will advance in tight formation throwing javelins at the enemy while closing in. In melee they might either opt to keep using their javelins (the historical romans had usually expended their supply by now, but we'll see through this) or use their gladius.

Item restrictions:
These restrictions are common to all legionaries, regardless of class. They might seem pretty harsh, but standardisation was one of the things that made the Roman armies so effective.

They MUST wear a tower shield (or it's exceptional/elite iterations) at all times. Before they acquire a tower shield and learn how to use it they are still considered trainees. There is to be NO exception to this rule. Abandoning rank and not keeping up your shield is considered an act of treason. The tower shields and their discipline was what kept the historical roman legionaries alive.

The roman legionaries are always equipped with two kinds of weapons. The javelin and the gladius. All legionaries must carry at least one of each. Even those who elect to use the javelin for close combat too, must carry a gladius anyway for backup.

A gladius here is defined as either a short sword (and it's exceptional/elite iterations) or a war sword (and it's excep/unique versions). A case can also be made for allowing the broad sword, but besides that all is disallowed. Roman Legionaries NEVER use two handed weapons since they need the protection of their tower shields at all times).

Since communication between the troops and their commanders are vital they are only allowed to use openface helmets. In case you wonder what this means skull caps, helmets, crowns, barbarian jawbone caps, fanged helms, horned helms and druid pelts are considered openface. Caps and circlets does not cover the head adequately.
It should be said that druid pelts are reserved for a special role, the standard bearer. One could also make a case for restricting crested helms (crowns and horned helms for commanders) though I will not pass final judgement over this matter here.

The legionaries must wear a type of body armor that combines protection with ease of manufacture and repair. The two armor types that expemplify this are scale mails and splint mails. Hard leather armors and studded leathers might be worn while still trainees though.

The other items are not restricted in any way.


Classes and builds:
The best charactes for making legionaries are amazons, barbarians, necromancers and paladins. A case can also be made for melee sorcerers, but both druids and assassins are out of the questions since both rely too singularily on close combat in opposition to throwing.

Barbarian legionary:
A reformed barbarian who have shown the discipline to fight in the great roman forces. He might retain a bit of local colour, but he will value the needs of the legion over his own dispositions. His weapons training is excellent and he makes a fine addition to the Roman shield wall.

The barbarian legionary will be built somewhat around the line of a Concentrate barbarian with the added Throw Mastery. He might choose Sword Mastery or Spear Mastery after which weapon he attends to use in close combat.
Double Throw and Frenzy is firmly out fo question because it capitalizes the shield. Whirlwind is also banned because it encourages one to break formation and strike out on his own. Concentrate, on the other hand is highly encouraged.
The barbarian legionary is allowed one single point in Berzerk. He will only use this dangerous and risky skill in the UTMOST emergency.
The barbarian legionary is also discouraged from spending too much points in the warcry skill tab. This is a job meant for the commanders. Maxing Shout is OK, though.

Paladin legionary:
A proud warrior and true believer of the power of Rome. Either from one of the esteemed patriarchal families or just a roman citizen who has shown extreme conviction towards the Republic. Though only a common infanterist his example can have great impact on his companions.

The Paladin legionary will invest most heavily into the combat skill tab, especially a skill like Smite will allow him to make use of the big bad shield that he wears. Charge is really antithetic to the slow deliberate advance of the legion and is only allowed as a prerequisite. Some auras are allowed. Especally those who can bolster his ranged attacks or give him added protection. Auras should not take the prime seat though, since this is more a job for a commander.
Skills like Fist of the Heavens, Holy Bolt and Blessed Hammer are not allowed, except perhaps as prerequisites for Holy Shield.

Amazon Legionary:
An odd, and certainly anachronistic thing seeing a woman in the Roman army, but we will allow ourselves the advantage of living in an enlightened age where women are considered equal to men in most non-physiological matters. Anyway, getting somewhere in the military as a woman requires some skill and this one has mastered the javelin to perfection.

Legionaries could not summon freakish things and neither can this one. Decoys and Valkyries are OUT. The amazon legionary should be safe enough if she stays in formation and keeps her shield up at all times.
Being a master of the javelin she will avoid the entire Bow/Crossbow skill tab as well.
The amazon legionary should also avoid the very pyrotechnical grossly magical skills like Lightning Strike, Lightning Fury and Plague Javelin as well. Charged Strike is OK in my book though.
One skill that should recieve extra attention is Pierce. One of the great advantages of the Roman legionaries was the abilities of their javelins to pierce enemy shields. Piercing attacks are highly encouraged.

Necromancer Legionary:
A dedicated soldier and javelin master as well he has specialised in high powered penetrating javelin attacks and defensive positions. He is responsible for setting up fortified camps and an excellent guard.

The skills he should focus on are: Bone Spear, (a penetrating javelin). He can only use this skill while actually wielding a javelin, not a gladius. Bone Wall and Bone Prison (setting up palisades). Poison Dagger for the "passive" melee AR bonus and Bone Armor. A few points in Amplify Damage or an Iron golem might be used as well (the golem MUST be made out of a tower shield).

Sorceress legionary:
Smiths and other craftsmen were somtimes enlisted in the armies in order to provide field repairs and set up fortifications. Also their physical fitness makes for great soldiers.

The sorceress legionary is a melee sorceress with emphasis on Enchant and the cold armors. The cold armors might be of tremendous aid to her companions if they manage to stay in formation. And a high power enchant can significantly increase the damage output of the whole unit. All the flashy stuff should stay unused, perhaps with the exception of a low power Lightning to represent a piercing javelin. Still it would look better if she kept to chugging enhanted javelins.

Play style: While on the battlefield the Legionaries should strive to keep in formation at all times possible slowly and meticulously advancing while keeping the enemy under constant bombardment of javelins. They should walk, not run, not to compromise the blocking power of their mightly tower shields. Formations might be altered to suit the circumstance, shield wall, spearhead, circle, single rank with best tank in front etc, but they should never totally abandon coherence. Only under very special circumstances (such as a heavy Gloam bombardment) should the scatter. Officers are to be kept safe behind the ordinary legionaries until melee where they might break out to challenge foes in melee too.



Officers:
Officers are various leaders and military specialist who aid the foot soldiers in various ways. They should never comprise the majority of a unit. Good support characters include the Barbarian, the Druid, the Paladin and the sorceress.

Item restrictions:
The item restrictions for commanders are somewhat eased. Especially important they are able to wear breast plates and should do so as a badge of their rank. They are also allowed a slightly larger selection of shields. They may wear round shields such as small shields, large shields and round paladin shields. Kite shields, gothic shields, and paladin heraldic shields are fixtures of the later Teuton empire and is thus disallowed. Bone shields and severed heads are just too plain freaky. The standard bearer may and should wear wolf or spirit pelts. Javelins are not really an officers weapon and should be kept among the common legionaries.

Barbarian commander:
A commander from one of the conquered tribes who have now sworn allegiance to the Roman emperor. He is nonetheless a formidable commander with an array of of various commands and inspiring speeches. He is also an inspiring example of the might of Rome that strikes fear into the hearts of the enemy.

Skills wise the barbarian commander is a barbarian with a strong emphasis on warcries. He is barred from the same skills as the barbarian legionary and should not put point into Throw Mastery and Spear Mastery.

Paladin decurion:
A born leader with, probably of a highly esteemed family. His mere precense consolidates the ranks of the legionaries, he is also a capable warrior in the eve of battle.

Skills wise this is an Aura paladin. Almost all auras besideds Holy Fire, Holy Freeze and Holy Shock is available. You could even make him a cleric for added support character role, though he should Ideally preserve some melee power in the form of combat skills. His auras should ideally be able to help the legionaries out in some fashion.

Druid standard bearer:
The standard bearer is a very special characters. He is the emissary of the great mythical she-wolf that nurtured Romulus and Remus. The founders of the Republic. He can call upon her powers, either through calling forth canine companions or by the powers of his Battle Standard (Spirit Pet).

The standard bearer must keep up a standard at all times and must max at least two standards (spirit pets). His skills outside the summoning tree is sorely limited. Really only Cyclone Armor is allowed. The standard bearer is allowed to put points into Grizzly only for the synergy effect. He can only summon wolwes. Ravens might be pumped freely.
For added visual effect the standard bearer might be the only character to forgo a shield for a two-handed weapon. The weapon should in this case either be a long staff, a battle staff or a war staff (looks standard'ish). Having a gladius/shield setup on switch is advicable.



Some notes:
Run/walk equipment should be distributed somewhat evenly to ensure a harmonious speed and ease keeping in formation. In a few circumstances it might be allowed that a legionary breaks rank, but only by the direct orders of a superior.

Officers should try to keep their hands free enough to bark orders most of the time. Therefore they are all given relatively unencumbering support roles.

If mercenaries are used these are considered barbarian servant forces used as cannon fodder with extreme prejudice. They can't figure out to stay in formation so they do not deserve much respect and second rate equipment. Hiring new mercenaries instead of ressurecting old ones should be a common practice.

It goes without saying that this variant should ideally be played totally untwinked. Twinking a few nonmagical tower shields to characters still in act 1 might not be the most stupid idea however.

If playing in a public game try to hold a military parade in town and proclaim that this town has been annexed by the republic of Rome. Just to freak out the pubbies.
Reply
#2
I may have overlooked the following, but thought it might do some good to suggest:

While troublesome, you should probably add the requirement that javelins be used only at range and that the legionary must draw his or her gladius for melee combat. Otherwise, a Javazon legionary will just own everything with jab.

You've said it but it probably should be emphasised: No breaking formation. This means no teleport for the Sorceress. No charge for the Paladin (unless you're with a group of chargers who synchronize it). No Leap/Leap Attack for the Barb. No Dragon Flight for the Assassin.

I pretty much agree that Druids and Assassins are basically out of the picture. Both need to use some special ability in melee combat and that pretty much goes against the Legionary thing.

Personally, I think this is a great idea but I believe it should be an ALL Paladin squad. It makes the most sense, fits in the theme the best, and has the least trouble with switching between ranged Javelin and melee Sword roles. Plus, each member of the Pally squad can run a different aura. (eg. Fanaticism + Might + Concentration + Blessed Aim + Salvation + Prayer/Cleansing/Meditation + Conviction + Vigor).

In fact you could assign roles to each aura.. I just tried to look up the varying legionary roles in battle and couldn't find appropriate names but i'm sure there are some.

One other thing.. just for that added touch of realism/legitimacy:

The legion's Centurion MUST keep a scroll identifying their commission from the Senate and People of Rome (SPQR) in their inventory at all times and MUST assign a hotkey to that scroll. When giving orders, they MUST activate that hotkey and invoke their commissioned authority after giving commands to the unit. [In game, this will produce the Paladin's casting animation with no effect. It's often used to "dance" in town.]

Lastly.. from a webpage, I thought it might interest you:

Silence and warcries

The Roman army of the empire placed great emphasis on the silence maintained by its troops both on the march and in battle deployment. Warriors of all ages have tried to alleviate their own stress by making as much noise as possible (incidentally this is also done by chimpansee primates when engaging in warlike behaviour). The republican Roman army, which was closer to a militia than a professional army, also advanced into battle making a lot of noise, raising war cries and banging their javelins against their shields. The silence maintained by the Spartan and Roman armies was proof of their superior discipline and must have had a most unnerving effect on their opponents who had to face an enemy that apparently gave no sign of this instinctive human behaviour. The raising of the warcry only just before actual contact was also maintained by the late Roman army. Whether the Roman war cry was already resembling the Germanic barritus is unknown. Roman cavalry had apparently already adopted war cries of Germanic origin at this date, belying the usual assertion that the raising of the barritus by the late Roman army was a result of barbarisation of the fourth century army. National war cries had been raised by the various contingents of the Roman republican army and perhaps each of the constituent parts of the imperial army would use a yell of their own as well rather than a common one, adding to the cacaphony.

Flavius Arrianus, Technè Taktikè, 44.1.
A.K. Goldsworthy, The Roman army at war 100 BC – AD 200 (Oxford 1996), 50; 192-197; 229.

Oh ya.. this is NOT a stupid variant idea. I would be honored to play in an all Paladin SPQR squad.

EDIT: more thoughts!

Mercenaries.. Act 3 and Act 5 are straight out of the picture IMO. I'd be tempted to rule out Act 2 mercs as well. The best backup IMO would be a squad of light Archers, Act 1 Rogues who can be obtained almost immediately and stick with the squad for the entire game. The Legionary unit can form some very cool defensive emplacements to protect their their archers.

Holy Shield.. while it would visibly run against the Legionary appearance, I don't think i'd ask a Paladin to go without. What do you think?

Smite.. a common tactic of Roman soldiers was to shield bash and rock the enemy lines.

Charge.. how to coordinate one? But it would be AWESOME to see a line of chargers.

Zeal.. THE skill to use, right?

Blessed Hammer.. out of the question.

Weapon selection - almost certainly Atlantean (upgraded) and one of the unique javs, probably the Demon's Arch as it is so frequently found and cheap on b.net.
Reply
#3
Indeed, I was working under heavy inspiration from the Legion of Greiz variant and thus decided to have this vast cacophony of classes.

An 8 character legionaire party could be done in these ways that would grant more cohesion:


6 legionaires: Concentration barbs with throw mastery and sword mastery.
Weapon switch 1: Javelins and tower shields.
Weapon switch 2: Gladii and tower shields.
Armor: Some kind of scale armor.
Helms: Some kind of normal helmet.

1 decurion: Aura paladin with some smite.
Weapons: Gladius and crown shield.
Armor Breast plate.
Helm: Crown.

1 standard bearer: Nigh useless druid with naught but Spirit pets, and perhaps a few ravens.
Weapon: Long staff or war staff.
Armor: Breast plate.
Helm: Wolf pelt.
The standard bearer must be protected at all costs and the retrieval of his corpse takes precedence over all other concerns.
Reply
#4
Hello

Pretty neat, I'd like to be your standard bearer :)

I'd make more restrictions though.
Legonaries: paladins ONLY, WITHOUT any aura (auras only used for passive boni)
Officers: ONE standard bearer ALWAYS (druid with a staff, gladius drawn only when all legionaries are dead) and ONE other commander (paladin with an aura).

Ah, and mercenaries strictly act5.

Ok, it'd be harder but hey. I'd be more roman IMHO.
(If you let all paladins have auras, you get the silly-overpowered all-paladins party, that'd just own everything in a second... then again, they did exactly that, so who knows, it might be allowable. In that case make the commanding officier a cleric)

one last thing: Since when is MIDI music appropriate for a site?

caaroid
Reply
#5
Merc: act5 are fighting slaves, and that did not usually happen... and neither did archer support IMHO, but I am not really knowledgabel in these matters. So I'd allow act 1 and 5 merces.

I'd still rule out concentration barbs because of their non-legionary looks, but then again ...

I thought about a 6-suqad of maxed-shout ironman barbs with a defiance leader and an Oak standard bearer, and my mouth started to water :) The barbs use their shout at ONCE, before engaging melee, at the command of their officier, how about that?

I want to do this, guys! Are you in Europe?
Reply
#6
I chose barbarians for the ordinary legionaires because they can use most of their skill points without touching "forbidden stuff". Skills such as Sword Mastery, Throwing Mastery, Concentration and such are all pretty much in character. Still they don't look exactly "roman".

I do agree that paladins would look greater, but of relevant skills they really only have Smite and perhaps Zeal and then the resist auras for passives. I also rule out Holy Shield because it destroys the roman "shield wall" look.

I chose a druid for the standard bearer simply for his ability to wear wolf pelts. I think a long staff looks a bit like a roman standard with some imagination. Perhaps he should be able to summon some wolves when alone and in extreme danger. A spirit pet would be a good representation for the psychological effects the standard bearer might have.


And yes, I am on Europe.
Reply
#7
A more appropriate guise of the officers would be the position of 'centurion'. And note that centurions bore as a mark of their rank a vine staff.

Republican legionaries utilized the scutum, a roundish oval shield that could bear the brunt of a sword stroke meant to cleft it from the edge. Imperial legionaries switched over to the towers.
Political Correctness is the idea that you can foster tolerance in a diverse world through the intolerance of anything that strays from a clinical standard.
Reply
#8
If you want to make this, I am all for it. I think we'd need at least 4-5 people to make it work.

You got your standard bearer, give me a legion :)
Reply
#9
Ok, Imperial legionaries they'll be then. I still think the centurion should carry a scutum (crown shield, wear a large shield until one becomes available).

I dunno about that "vine staff". Perhaps he could carry a gnarled staff on switch for use in ceremonial situations while the standard bearer will display his standard in the field.


To Caaroid, heh, if we'll cary through with this I have an idea of a naming convention. Our characters are to have names that are "latinisations" of our own names.

My name would "Laurentius Sinius" for example. I want to be a common footslogger BTW, I am not cut for the leadership thing. (Common Footslogger, What am I saying!?! No greater honor can befall a man than to serve in the great legions of Rome!)
Reply
#10
Well ok then :) Does this mean anyting, or is it just a common Latin name? (I could ask my sister about that but I dont want to call her just now :) )

so.... we need a commander and at least 2-3 other legionaires, right?
Reply
#11
A group would need six players. That way formations like an arrowhead would be balanced (3-2-1).

It also allows for two non-partied players in the game - not much point to this if we can't impress the uncouth rabble with the might and power of Rome, is there?

I strongly believe the whole squad should all have Rogue mercs :)

The seventh player could be a staff wielding Warcry barb instead of a staff wielding druid. Look a bit less legitimate, but IMO far more useful to the party. We could even arrange for them to wield a Horadric Staff. Or a staff wielding Paladin, running the aura-of-the-moment.

No auras for the legionaire Pallys huh? IMO.. ouch. That's gonna bite. But I guess that leaves more points for synergies.. Sacrifice for Zeal, for example, with the Commander running Fanat 24/7. If there's no auras, all the Pallys will be built very similarly IMO.. maxed Sacrifice, Fanat, Smite..?

Imagine six guys with maxed Smite subduing hordes of the unsightly dead!

What about the legion Commander being a mojomancer? You know, the whole white haired look. I can hardly think of anything more useful than a mojomancer... but then the Pallys would be bereft of any aura, and I don't know if curses really fit into the theme ;)

I guess the most appropriate "Commander" look and feel would indeed be a dire wolf Druid.
Reply
#12
Indeed we do. Perhaps I should ask over at DiabloII.net.


Regarding the names, they might have some meaning from way back, but generally they are just common names.


If your name is Dennis for example your roman name would be Dionysius.

If your name is Karl, Charles or Carlos your roman name would be Carolus and so forth.
Reply
#13
^^ http://www.latin.org/english/name-lookup.html

(5 seconds of google!)

Hmm.. assuming for a moment the legionaires are NOT Paladins and are instead Barbarians.. what about a bunch of bash/stun/zerk Barbs?
Reply
#14
The idea would be group look and feel I guess, so I'm not too worried about the same look (having taken the only druid :P)

Conc barbs could work well (and build rather alike), but pallys would be undeniably more powerful. I once played with a friend a fanat/might merced pally with a conc/defiance merced pally, and we could kill everything incredibly fast... with a whole LEGION of them it would be quite powerful.

About the arrowhead:
1-2-3
1: conc barb (toughest probably)
2: conc barbs or pallies depending on paty
3: x-y-z where z would be the standard bearer I presume (hope), x and z could be... what? one leader and another foot soldier?
(normally I'd say y leader and x/z two standard bearers, but 3 killers in a party of six...

wait a minute!
if we really could rally 6 people for this, we could:
1 conc barb for the spear/arrowHEAD
2 palas (fanat/zeal and conc/zeal)
1 leader (priest maybe? 'orders flying out' in the form of holy bolt... ok, it's streching it...)
2 standard bearers (one BO/SHOUT baba with mace mastery and a MEAN staff, the other a spirit maxed and maybe ravens maxed? druid... maxed ravens could help a lot with blindness I guess).

what exactly was a mojomancer again?
Reply
#15
Mojomancer = pure curse necro. eg. Decrepify, Amp damage, Terror, Weaken, Iron Maiden, Lower Resist, you name it. No summons. No bone spear/spirit (prison/wall are okay). In this case, no CE either.

Amp would allow the party to destroy any PI.
Reply
#16
if we allow the leader to be a mojomancer, am willing to take that too :)
sounds quite cool, don't know how would it fit in tho... maybe an advisor for the leader? arrowhead other side? ideas?
Reply
#17
Mmm.. I dunno how it'd fit in or where. I'd love to see a party of aura-wielding Paladin legionaires with Zeal and Smite. A Necromancer would make them incredibly lethal.
Reply
#18
I thought that an army of aura using paladins would be incredibly lethal... adding an 'advisor' would make them overkill :)
Reply
#19
I see the whole thing is becoming complicated again:

Again, There should only be one standard bearer and one leader. Come on, we are talking about a unit of MAX 8 men and preferrably 6.


Secondly, I don't know about the idea of having aura spouting legionaries. In my opinion auras in this variant can only be explained as a leadership thing and having multiple auras flying about would obscure who is the leader of the outfit.

Also I think there should be some tactical considerations in the centurion's choice of auras. (Does this situation require Might, Concentration or Defiance, Hmm.)

The reason I chose barbs for the legionaries is that that class has the most relevant skills, Throwing Mastery, Concentration. A single point in berzerk could help against any physical immunes that might show up.

The addition of a mojomancer (a necromancer who only uses curses) can be debated. Should he replace the original centurion as a tactical commander (points out weaknesses in enemy forces), or the standard bearer (strikes fear into the heart of the enemies of Rome).

Personally I am still all for the druid for his reference to the great she-wolf who nurtured Romulus and Remus.



As I see it following setups are up to debate:


4 Legionaries: Should they be vindicator (Smite) paladins with little or no aura use, but with javelins or should they be concentration barbarians with Throwing and Sword Mastery?

1 Centurion: Should he be an aura paladin or a mojomancer (curse necromancer).

1 standard bearer: Should he be an aura paladin a gutted summoner druid or a mojomancer.



My own assessment is:

Legionaries: Concentration barbarians.

Centurion: Aura paladin, perhaps with a bit of Smite.

Standard Bearer: Gutted Summoner druid with a staff. His role is more symbolic than anything. He is a bit like a king in a chess game.
Reply
#20
Well, let me be honest.. I don't see the group making a heck of a lot of use out of the Javelins. Even with a barb's Throwing Mastery I don't think they'll be that good. I for one know i'm going to have to pretty much force myself to use them if I have a good sword handy.

I also think playing the gutted summoner druid, while very much in the theme of things, would be insanely boring. Don't get me wrong, I think it suits the concept perfectly. I just don't envy the person playing it. I mean, are wolves any good? At all?

If you really don't want legionaire pallys running auras, then make the commander a staffpally and let him run the aura. Hey, I guess we do agree :)

You do make a good point in that a Concentration barb will get the defense bonus without sacrificing the Legionaire look and feel (which a Holy Shield Pally _would_ do). So a squad of Conc barbs would be good.. I guess I just disagree on the Throwing Mastery bit.. feel free to change my mind.

*shrug*
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 4 Guest(s)