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Munkay,Jan 12 2005, 12:38 AM Wrote:Since then I've become a MAC fan. Its good to see them continuing to inovate.
[right][snapback]65078[/snapback][/right] Innovate? There's no innovation here friend, it's basically just a barebones Mac. Barebones computers - Tiny footprint with the aims of being quiet - Have been around for quite a while. I couldn't tell you how long though.
It makes me sad that Apple uses an existing idea and gets considered as innovators by mainstream users :(
My other mount is a Spiderdrake
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[quote=Taeme,Jan 18 2005, 02:12 PM]
Innovate? There's no innovation here friend, it's basically just a barebones Mac. Barebones computers - Tiny footprint with the aims of being quiet - Have been around for quite a while. I couldn't tell you how long though.
It sort of reminds me of the shuttle PCs. Like this one.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20020710/ Only smaller and interpreted with some Mac styling.
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Taeme,Jan 18 2005, 09:12 AM Wrote:Innovate? There's no innovation here friend, it's basically just a barebones Mac. Barebones computers - Tiny footprint with the aims of being quiet - Have been around for quite a while. I couldn't tell you how long though.
It makes me sad that Apple uses an existing idea and gets considered as innovators by mainstream users :(
[right][snapback]65737[/snapback][/right] They're called innovators because they're the first to mass market barebones systems to mainstream users in a neat little package. Lots of ideas are around for a long time but don't get recognized until someone comes along with just the right design and marketing to make it accessible to the casual user. Although I agree that "innovator" is not quite the right word to use, you can still consider it a new idea to break out of the niche market.
--Copadope
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Taeme,Jan 18 2005, 06:12 AM Wrote:Innovate? There's no innovation here friend, it's basically just a barebones Mac. Barebones computers - Tiny footprint with the aims of being quiet - Have been around for quite a while. I couldn't tell you how long though.
It makes me sad that Apple uses an existing idea and gets considered as innovators by mainstream users :(
[right][snapback]65737[/snapback][/right]
The computers you and Hammerskjold refer to, which are great for lan parties, are similar in application, Apple has taken it to an extreme with this litte PC. I would guess you could fit just over 2 of the Macs in a typical LAN box. That kind of size reduction could still be considered innovation, considering the computing power you can still order for it.
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The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance. Robert A. Heinlein
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jahcs,Jan 18 2005, 07:56 PM Wrote:The computers you and Hammerskjold refer to, which are great for lan parties, are similar in application, Apple has taken it to an extreme with this litte PC. I would guess you could fit just over 2 of the Macs in a typical LAN box. That kind of size reduction could still be considered innovation, considering the computing power you can still order for it.
[right][snapback]65785[/snapback][/right]
Nah, not even that. Nano-PCs have been around for much longer:
http://www.cappuccinopc.com
I specially like the SlimPro, a PC that can fit in a 5 1/4 bay of a regular desktop PC :)
You could say that the Apple guys are more innovative than Dell and their kind, but in this case they're hardly innovative per se.
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Apple's innovation has far less to do with the actual construction or size of the mac mini and far more to do with the style. And yes, I know what I just said.
The 'Computer' in 'Apple Computer' is becoming less and less important. If you look at the recent apple designs ( mac mini, iMac G5) the effects the iPod has had on virtually all other apple products is instantly and obviously apparent. People don't buy an iPod because it has the best price or the best specs. They buy the iPod because people see the iPod and go "cool!" They buy the iPod because it's "the best."
One other note -- it's hardly fair to compare the mac mini to barebones PC's, either out of the box or custom built. Most of the bare bones systems you see (particularly the really cheap ones) are clones or no-name brands, with terrible components inside. And finally, remember that it's not running windows :). I recently built a PC (long story short it was too good a deal for me to pass up) and have had more viruses, spyware and adware programs in less than 7 days online than my iMac has had in over 7 YEARS connected to high speed (all but the last 8 months without ANY protection except the built-in firewall). The mac mini is perfect for someone who doesn't need any kind of real computing power (internet and word processing, etc) doesn't know anything about computers and wouldn't know what an antivirus program is if you smacked them upside the head with it.
gekko
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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gekko,Jan 19 2005, 11:09 AM Wrote:They buy the iPod because it's "the best."
[right][snapback]65866[/snapback][/right] No, they buy the iPod for the same reason they drink coke or eat at McDonald's. Apple is a brand. Macintosh is a brand. People LOVE brands. It's not that Apple's marketing of the iPod is a great success where a little company totally invigourated a field out of nowhere. It's that Apple is, by and by, far more well known than any of it's competition in that field. It's true that the iPod is a success, of course, but it's not a giant turn around. It's a good company going into a field and kicking around a bunch of nobodies.
Not that I wouldn't rather buy an iPod than whatever Dell or Creative put out. Eww.
I rather take issue with the comment that a barebones PC is going to have "crap" inside. Apple buys and uses products from the same vendors to assemble their machines. There is little or no price difference between normal products and the cheapo stuff that actually isn't that bad these days.
The proliferation of Macintosh hardware is only going to accelerate the spread of spyware, adware and so forth that is going to be targeting Macs. The innate protection Macs have from such problems lies mostly in the simple fact they represent such a tiny market share.
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gekko,Jan 19 2005, 04:09 PM Wrote:And finally, remember that it's not running windows
[right][snapback]65866[/snapback][/right]
roger@callisto[roger]$ uptime
18:07:48 up 283 days, 1:04, 1 user, load average: 0.99, 0.98, 0.99
Granted, Callisto isn't doing much, other than hosting my nethack games, run seti@home and running some test code when I'm doing any network stuff. Let's take a look at the computer I use to surf the net, play MP3s, host my webserver, the usual stuff:
roger@ganymede:~$ uptime
18:09:43 up 199 days, 20:51, 7 users, load average: 1.05, 1.01, 1.00
Hmmm :)
Oh yeah, and just as Taeme said, I disagree entirely with you on the quality of the components in PC barebones. They just buy standard parts and put them together. They may put them together better or worse (as in, the internal organization, airflow of the case, details like that), but the parts won't be of lower quality. An Asus board will be an Asus board no matter who's putting the box together.
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Walkiry,Jan 19 2005, 12:43 PM Wrote:Oh yeah, and just as Taeme said, I disagree entirely with you on the quality of the components in PC barebones.
That's fine if you know enough about computers to research the bare-bones PC you buy, but many people don't. I sell a line of computers called iNext at work, put together by a company called Mckinnon. On paper, spec-wise and dollar wise, these are great PC's. But I don't sell them, because they come back for servicing more often than any other brand I sell.
I'm not saying that Apple Computers are far and above the quality you get from PC's. I'm simply saying that for someone who doesn't know PC's enough to distinguish between decent components and crap, buying a mac is a pretty safe bet. And if you're like me and are fed up with constantly combating viruses and spyware, the mac OS is a good way to go. If Apple ever gets a serious share of the market, the problems will come. However, for now, mac OS is a great way to go.
gekko
"Life is sacred and you are not its steward. You have stewardship over it but you don't own it. You're making a choice to go through this, it's not just happening to you. You're inviting it, and in some ways delighting in it. It's not accidental or coincidental. You're choosing it. You have to realize you've made choices."
-Michael Ventura, "Letters@3AM"
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