The upcoming Mac mini

[DeeBye]

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

This is a barebones Mac, expected to retail for $499USD. You have to supply your own monitor, USB mouse and USB keyboard.

Inside its petite 2-inch tall, 6.5-inch square anodized aluminum enclosure, Mac mini houses a 1.25 or 1.42GHz G4 processor, 40 or 80GB hard drive, a slot-loading CD-R/DVD-ROM optical drive, 256MB DDR SDRAM and ATI Radeon 9200 graphics chip with 32MB dedicated DDR SDRAM — all whisper-quiet.

I've never owned a Mac (mostly due to price), but this sort of thing has me really intrigued.

[Munkay]

Don't forget the .5gig and 1gig iPod Shuffle!

Here

I received a 4th Gen iPod from a business incentive this september, and have spent too many hours drooling over 12" powerbooks (perfect for schoolwork, maybe not for gaming :P ). Since then I've become a MAC fan. Its good to see them continuing to inovate.

Cheers,

Munk

[LochnarITB]

and have spent too many hours drooling over 12' powerbooks (perfect for schoolwork, maybe not for gaming  :P )
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[comment on size of backpack needed to carry that powerbook]

Oh, wait. That should be in the Generic Lurker Lounge thread thread.

[Munkay]

Doh! Caught the typo. :P

(It's good to have a laugh at yourself every once in a while)

[Walkiry]

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

This is a barebones Mac, expected to retail for $499USD.  You have to supply your own monitor, USB mouse and USB keyboard.
I've never owned a Mac (mostly due to price), but this sort of thing has me really intrigued.
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Eh, I'm not that impressed with that stuff. Small PCs have been around for a while now, and I just bought a 70€ 1 Gb SD card for my PDA where I can store a lot of music (and a 1 Gb CF card too, but I can only use that one for music when I'm not going to be taking pictures with my digicam ^_^).

Good for people who have some particular software needs arsy about being run in a Mac though.

[Moldran]

I think this may be a very good move of Apple. I am allready recommending the Mac Mini to alot of people. It seems to be small, cute, quiet, and well fit for the average home and small office user. And it has the *big* plus of coming with a somewhat decent operating system that the average user can easily handle. All the people who are fed up with the troubles and drawbacks of Windows should really consider getting this thing.
I think buying PC hardware with this performance that is that small and quiet would cost well over $500.
I would definately get a Mac Mini myself if I had the spare money. It should make a really really nice multimedia box or home server.

[Walkiry]

I think buying PC hardware with this performance that is that small and quiet would cost well over $500.
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Nah, take a look at the compact barebones you can find around, throw in the parts you miss and you'll end up with similar price and most likely better specs (I didn't even know they did 9200s with just 32 Mb of memory).

But as I said, for someone who does need a Mac for some esoteric app, it's a great idea.

[kandrathe]

Nah, take a look at the compact barebones you can find around, throw in the parts you miss and you'll end up with similar price and most likely better specs (I didn't even know they did 9200s with just 32 Mb of memory).

But as I said, for someone who does need a Mac for some esoteric app, it's a great idea.
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A comparable PC device would be the AMD PIC (Personal Internet Communicator) -- for $185

But a barebones like the one below is not too expensive either;

Shuttle XPC Barebone System for Socket 754 AMD Athlon 64 CPU, Model SK83G -- $199
AMD Athlon 64 3000+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor -- $135
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD800BB -- $58
Kingston VALUERAM 184-Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-2700 -- $79
MSI ATI RADEON 9600PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "RX9600PRO-TD128" -- $106

Some generic CD+RW drive + Shipping comes in around $600. And, I didn't go with the lowest possible spec, just what any Gamer would find acceptable. The advantage of this config is that if you want to upgrade a particular component (Dual SATA, bigger CPU, bigger RAM, HD) no problem.

Now it is not 2" tall. But for form factor, 8" x 8" x 12" is not a big footprint.

The uses and utility of a barebones like this are different from the low end utility device that the MiniMac, or the PIC.

[Moldran]

Nah, take a look at the compact barebones you can find around, throw in the parts you miss and you'll end up with similar price and most likely better specs (I didn't even know they did 9200s with just 32 Mb of memory).
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Hmmm. As far as I know the barebone market in Germany, you won't get anything with comparable performance so very much cheaper than EUR500. OK, maybe for about EUR400, depends on where you buy. But if what I have read about the Mac Mini so far is true, such a barebone will usually be bigger and louder.

But as I said, for someone who does need a Mac for some esoteric app, it's a great idea.

I consider the fact that it comes with a decent, yet very easy to use OS the real big advantage. I think for the average user, avoiding Windows is well worth EUR200 and more :)

[Walkiry]

Hmmm. As far as I know the barebone market in Germany, you won't get anything with comparable performance so very much cheaper than EUR500. OK, maybe for about EUR400, depends on where you buy. But if what I have read about the Mac Mini so far is true, such a barebone will usually be bigger and louder.
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Well, I just checked avitos.com and you'll find that you can get something close to what kandrathe posted; most come with integrated cards but you can slap a Radeon 9600 for like 50€. Barebones boxes seem to be unreasonably expensive here in Germany, but I bet you can beat it shopping around a bit. You do have to buy the box and the parts though, if you buy it pre-built they rip you off.

Another good place to check is http://www.preissuchmaschine.de , they have cheaper barebones boxes there, mainly because of bigger variety (I've just seen one for Athlon XP in a KT266 chipset for 120€, bit dated but will surely give the mini a run for its money).

As far as noise, I barely hear any other computer over the roar of the multi-fan gaming machine I use regularly anyway ;)

But the most silent thing I've had is the Celeron Packard Bell I've got running Debian, the only reason I know it's on is because of the light, it's got a big 80 mm fan for the CPU with a large heatsink going so slow you can almost read the text, and the box ventilation is a large 120 mm one. The HD is against the front metal plate so that it acts as a heatsink. I have to admit it's really well built (catched it at a saleoff at my local Saturn, apparently they had some leftover that should have gone some time ago and were almost giving it away :) ).

I consider the fact that it comes with a decent, yet very easy to use OS the real big advantage. I think for the average user, avoiding Windows is well worth EUR200 and more :)

I can't belive you're in Germany, SuSE man! ;)

[Moldran]

I can't belive you're in Germany, SuSE man! ;)
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Suse and GNU/Linux in general has the problem that it is lacking the 'killer applications' from MS Office. In my experience, it is very hard to get people used to OOo and the like. The main reason for this is not that the alternatives to MS Office are hard to use. It is prejudice and fear. Many people are very very afraid of having to re-learn their standard applications. The same is true for the OS, to some extent. People hear the word 'Linux' and immediately become afraid. For some reason, Apple does not seem to have that problem. A question of public perception, probably.
Also, Suse is very easy to use, but cannot compete with the UI of Mac OS X, IMHO. Especially not in the eyes of 'non-technical' users.

[kandrathe]

Suse and GNU/Linux in general has the problem that it is lacking the 'killer applications' from MS Office.
...
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You mean like Open Office, or GIMP (both of which I use personally even on XP)? The only thing currently that prevents me from converting most of my users to Linux is that our telephony integration is for MS Outlook only. Otherwise, a browser and Open Office would suffice for 90% of them.

[Quark]

GIMP[right][snapback]65419[/snapback][/right]

:wacko:
I can't stand GIMP. It's the worst GUI for any Windows application I've ever used. It uses Linux standards on the wrong OS. It is the laughing stock of the CS department at my school. And yet, it's free. If only Photoshop were free ...

[jahcs]

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

This is a barebones Mac, expected to retail for $499USD.  You have to supply your own monitor, USB mouse and USB keyboard.
I've never owned a Mac (mostly due to price), but this sort of thing has me really intrigued.
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The Apple has me thinking "Almost a Laptop."

It is refreshing to see they went for a small package to contain the hardware. I often look at my computer tower using up much of my desk's real estate and sigh.

The feature that sticks out for me on this 84.5 cubic inch wonder is that there are only 2 USB ports and a firewire port. Keyboard, Mouse, Printer. For many buyers a USB hub will be mandatory.

[Bun-Bun]

The Apple has me thinking "Almost a Laptop."

It is refreshing to see they went for a small package to contain the hardware.  I often look at my computer tower using up much of my desk's real estate and sigh.

The feature that sticks out for me on this 84.5 cubic inch wonder is that there are only 2 USB ports and a firewire port.  Keyboard, Mouse, Printer.  For many buyers a USB hub will be mandatory.
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Most USB keyboards I have seen lately are 2-port USB hubs as well, so the mouse plugs into the keyboard.

You could also go with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Not my cup o' tea, but it might appeal to the Apple buyer that's hipper than I.

[DeeBye]

:wacko:
I can't stand GIMP.  It's the worst GUI for any Windows application I've ever used.  It uses Linux standards on the wrong OS.
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That's because it was a Linux application first. It was ported over to Windows as an afterthought.

I can't really badmouth GIMP, because there is absolutely nothing even in the same category. For most average users, GIMP works as well as Photoshop. It has a different style of UI (I wouldn't call it worse - just different and alien), but overall it's a VERY good open-source product.

I don't even think it's fair to compare the GIMP and Photoshop when you look at the price difference. I personally feel that Photoshop is superior, but if I had a budget of $0 I wouldn't be unhappy with being limited to the GIMP.

p.s. check out PAINT.net

[Walkiry]

I can't really badmouth GIMP, because there is absolutely nothing even in the same category.  For most average users, GIMP works as well as Photoshop.  It has a different style of UI (I wouldn't call it worse - just different and alien), but overall it's a VERY good open-source product. 
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Actually I've seen developers acknowledge the problem with the interface, but also explain why it is a problem.

See, they're programmers first, and they designed the UI for something they'd be comfortable using. The problem is that they get almost zero extensive feedback from real graphic designers, much less a volunteer or two to work with them on the UI design.

Dunno how things are lately though, but that's the last I heard :)

[Moldran]

You mean like Open Office, or GIMP (both of which I use personally even on XP)? 

In my experience, it is very hard to get people used to OOo and the like.

OOo = OpenOffice.org

I use it myself, too. I know that it is not hard to use. But still, most Windows users that are used to MS Office start bitching immediately when they find OOo in stead of MS Office installed. That was my point.

[Occhidiangela]

In my experience, it is very hard to get people used to OOo and the like.

OOo = OpenOffice.org

I use it myself, too. I know that it is not hard to use. But still, most Windows users that are used to MS Office start bitching immediately when they find OOo in stead of MS Office installed. That was my point.
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Crack users also bitch when all they can get is regular cocaine. :wacko: The MS marketeers have done a good job on getting a lot of folks hooked.

Next open OS needs to be called "Cold Turkey."

My two lire.

Occhi

[Alrin]

Trying not to stray too far away from the topic but..
Photoshop vs Gimp is like comparing a custom car (user customized) to a factory-built high-quality vehicle. The custom car has the "Ooooh.." factor and alot of extra (sometimes not so intuitive) features, while the factory car has alot of good documentation, support and the manufacturer wants to keep the customer(s) happy. Bad example, but I think you get the idea.

*snip*

For most average users, GIMP works as well as Photoshop.  It has a different style of UI (I wouldn't call it worse - just different and alien), but overall it's a VERY good open-source product. 

*snip*

True, Gimp is a quality program. It gets you from A to B. Perhaps not with so much fun and excitement that you get with competitor C that takes you to a roundtrip to Æ while getting there and serving freshly-plucked strawberries on the trip, but it gets you there.

I think the only reason I myself am not using Gimp is because I get constant upgrades of Photoshop by working for my father as his personal design/layout-slave and thus his company provides me with the software I request. I remember testing Gimp once though.. (way way back when I fool-heartedly installed slackware on a crummy pentium) and I was put off by the UI instantly. I tried to work with it but it was too much weirdness going on. Alot of "filters" that were jibberish to me. The whole lets-make-plenty-of-free-floating-windows-without-any-coherency thing was not my cup of tea. At all.

Then again, I know very skilled artists that swear by Gimp and honestly believe PS to be the Dark Lord incarnate. So.. *shrugs* .. it varies..

Alright, enough off-topic by yours truly. Carry on. Nothing to see here.