Warlocks Getting Buffed

[Lissa]

Blind lasts 10s.  What do you have out, an imp?
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Succubus is lucky if she has 2k health. Felhunter is lucky if it has 2.5k health. Only the VW has a good amount of health, that being close to 4k. A Rogue that can't do 2k damage in 10 seconds is a very bad Rogue.

[Drasca]

But you seem to take the fact that you weren't able to win as an indication that warlocks are gimped characters in PvP.  That's just not the case.[right][snapback]76983[/snapback][/right]

Not quite. Warlocks are simply used to fighting hopeless battles, and ones they can't run away from. . . that's the reason why we were there. Were we able to turn the tide every so often? Yes. That was due to skill and tactics, not to class mixes. However... the reason we warlocks were there to defend is because warlocks have been trained by a system that does not allow escape.

Warriors will just get restunned and killed.

Assuming the charge is a large scale battle full of players on both sides, warrior damage mitigation might keep them alive with healer support.

Rogues can't vanish while stunned and anyway they'll have so many dots on them that they won't be able to vanish anyway. 

Assuming the rogue stays around long enough to be dotted, yes. Not always the case. Sprint's very nice too.

Druids can't transform while stunned and anyway they would simply be restunned once they do transform and killed.

Small chance to dash for it in running form.

unless they're already at a sliver of life due to some other source

Plenty of targets like this at any given time. Also, 'killing' isn't always the objective. Sowing chaos is. Sapping a target and dashing off plenty. Sap, move on, kill something advantageous, move on, sap vanish, etc. Plenty of things to do. Sapping a healer is always useful.

so the rogue is vulnerable to someone dotting, crowd controling, or placing a hunter's mark on them.

If caught, yes. Sometimes the three seconds it takes for dots to take effect is just enough time to dash for it. Sometimes those dots/marks/cc's are removed by their allies, sometimes a warlock with a felhunter he's partied with devouring magic on him heh heh.

even better, one rogue can sap a person who might help the intended victim, then the group kills the victim, and then if there's time the group goes back to kill the sapped person.

Yep yep. Plenty of 'invisible war' tactics around. I tend to play bait in front of chillwind post with my rogue pals. Oh look! A warlock that can't escape... I'll duo him with my buddy. Easy kill, right? crunch crunch. splash. burn. What just happened?

Hmm.... life siphon is instant on test servers... that makes affliction additionally viable and mana efficient. I still refuse to cast soul drain on players. No way am I going to finish an enemy that way.

[Drasca]

My central argument in the post you were quoting was that MF is a better snare when fighting and CoEx is a better snare when running (even if it is crappy compared to many other classes' snares).  [right][snapback]76981[/snapback][/right]

Between stuns and flay, I've seen shadow priests chain cast scream. That depends on blackout, and ability to stay alive though.

Chain casting fear... is usually not an option. You *must* have range on your side to do so. Rogue sprints are too fast, and we're hit with los 'You must be facing your target' messages. Heck, that can happen with warriors and they're fairly slow.

CoEx is probably superior when available, however it is a 25 talent point investment for a weak snare, which means precluding use of level 31 talent in other trees. While I love affliction, the marginal cost for a weak snare is not worth paying.


Anti fear trinket / fear immunity hits priests badly, but I'd wager the damage mitigation gets priests out of more scrapes than the fear.

[Treesh]

A Rogue that can't do 2k damage in 10 seconds is a very bad Rogue.
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I've got to agree here. Playing with Etheramwen earlier today (she's 44) and she hit some same level critter for over 1k damage with two hits - ambush and then a backstab. Yeah, both were crits, but she's only 44 and certainly doesn't have really uber gear. If a level 60 rogue can't put out that amount of damage that quickly, they (or their equipment) are severely lacking.

[Quark]

I've got to agree here.  Playing with Etheramwen earlier today (she's 44) and she hit some same level critter for over 1k damage with two hits - ambush and then a backstab.  Yeah, both were crits, but she's only 44 and certainly doesn't have really uber gear.  If a level 60 rogue can't put out that amount of damage that quickly, they (or their equipment) are severely lacking.
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As more and more Rogues get their "uber daggers," more and more cloth wearers are going to have problems. Last night I obtained a Keris of Zul'Serak in LBRS, which is comparable to Barman Shanker. This was replacing my Lifeforce Dirk. I instantly had aggro problems, and commonly went "Ambush - 1064 damage. Backstab - 768 damage". Average combined damage (Ambush at 66% crit, Backstab at 30%) was probably over 1200, and that's in the first 1-4 seconds of battle (depending on timing of the energy regeneration). I wonder why my Backstab crit was that high, though, given that my base is about 20% and I have no talents for Backstab.

This dagger really makes me want to get the Improved Backstab talent, but that would cost me Seal Fate and using Backstab over SS has already killed my Combo Point generation.