Where do you find "The Love"?

[Bolty]

What I'm getting at here, is where do you find the love of playing WoW? What is it that drives you to playing the game?

Obviously there are the four player archetypes:

1) Killer - likes to engage and kill other players, which may or may not include griefing
2) Acheiver - likes to get better and better stuff, or build the ultimate character
3) Explorer - likes to know little details about game mechanics and gameplay, as much as possible
4) Socializer - likes the companionship of their fellow player

But we've had discussions on those before and where people fall in the mix. What I'm finding lately (and it's surprising me) is that my enjoyment of any group play is substantially less when I'm not playing the tank or healer role.

The tank role represents the ultimate interaction with the mobs. The tank needs to keep track of all enemy mobs in the fight and try his/her hardest to hold their attention while helping to kill them in the best manner. The tank is someone who (if they're doing their job) interacts in some manner with every mob in every fight, even if it's just keeping track of their aggro.

The healer role represents the ultimate interaction with the players. The healer needs to keep track of all party members in the fight and try his/her hardest to keep them alive while maintaining the lowest aggro level possible. The healer is someone who (if they're doing their job) interacts in some manner with every player in every fight, even if it's just keeping track of their aggro.

Both tank and healer become massively aware of the aggro level of ALL members of the party - the tank so he/she can pull the attention of a mob back to the fold when needed, and the priest so he/she can anticipate heals (so much of healing is timing) and protect those who need it the most.

Both tank and healer will have to prioritize targets - the tank may have to decide which mob is the most dangerous and keep its attention if he/she can't maintain aggro on everything. The priest may have to decide which party member is the most important and heal that member if he/she will not have enough mana to protect all members of a party.

What am I getting at? Earlier this week I was in a Razorfen Downs run and I found myself feeling bored and useless. Well, bored's too strong a word - I was entertained - but it felt like I was on autopilot. My contribution to the group as a Warlock was minimal at best. I didn't have to worry about cursing to prevent fleeing mobs because none of them there were runners, so I became mostly a DPS monkey. I've played Warlocks a lot, so I'm long past the novelty stage with the class (something that I might experience as a rogue or hunter since I've never taken them above 20). It seemed like had I popped on a television or something to watch that while playing (and thus divided my attention), it wouldn't have made any significant difference in how our battles went.

The level of concentration of play required when playing primary tank and primary healer is, bar none, much higher - unless you're zerging an instance or are overleveled. This helps to keep play from being monotonous when grouping. I rarely EVER felt bored playing my Priest to 60 in groups, due to the pressure of healing duties, and whenever I've tanked instances with Warriors I've really enjoyed getting into the flow of controlling battle pacing. I feel more IN to the action, and less like a bystander who's helping out.

Classes who can play primary tanks and primary healers:
Warriors, Priests, Druids, Paladins

Classes who play support/DPS roles 95%+ of the time:
Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, Shamans

So, those of you who play Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, or Shamans as your mains - do you feel this way as well in groups? Does it seem like you're always just there for the ride? Back to my original question - where do you find the love of playing WoW? What is it that drives you to playing the game? This is not a class flame/war, it's an honest question.

I've played every class to at least 20, and I noticed that soloing with these very classes I've listed is a BLAST. Rogues for their sheer sneak-up-and-obliterate-someone-then-disappear-without-a-trace ability, Hunters for their blow-them-away-from-a-distance action and pet training, Mages for sheer nukefest, Warlocks for that I'm-a-general-leading-my-troops feeling you get as you can take on things solo that others wouldn't dream of, and Shamans for the give-me-your-best-shot-I-can-adapt-to-anything versatility.

At the same time, I've noticed that the classes that are the most fun solo are the ones that make me feel like a bystander in groups. Everything that's so cool about soloing with them is reduced heavily by grouping. Rogues have to hold back their damage and wait for aggro to build up (blah), Hunters can't do half their bag of tricks, Mages have to hold back like Rogues do (blah), Warlocks - one of the most versatile classes - turn into Summoners, Soulstoners, and Healthstoners, and Shamans become totem-dropping backup healers.

There are of course some exceptions to the rule when a class gets the front-and-center attention. Rogues moving into a group of mobs to Sap one before a fight. Mages and Warlocks AoE'ing. Hunters getting to pull. Shamans off-tanking. But these don't happen often enough.

Conversely, soloing with a Warrior, Priest, Druid, or Paladin has been less than exciting for me, and I find myself looking to group up more often when playing those classes. Am I missing something?

I've noticed that people with mains as one of the support/DPS roles will often complain that they're bored, and I'm wondering if this is the reason. I rarely see Priest/Warrior players complain that they are bored with running instances/raiding, because they always get the "high-action" roles. You always hear of people being described as a fantastic tank or a fantastic healer, not a "fantastic DPS Monkey".

Anyhow, just wondering if anyone shares/disagrees with my thoughts, and also reaching out and telling anyone who might be a bit bored with a main who is a support class to try rolling a tank/healer class to see how they like it.

-Bolty

[Artega]

My "love" comes from the fun involved with tanking along with the fact that you make a lot of (online) friends being a good tank.

I'd say I play mostly for the people I typically play with. If not for them, WoW would have lost its appeal long before Level 60, because (quite frankly) I think WoW is a crappy game.

I also immensely enjoy the PvP aspect of the game (which is good, since I'm on PvP servers), though I'd also take another game (perhaps UT2k4) over WoW if I was in it JUST for the PvP action.

So, yeah, it's the people that I keep playing for.

[Darian]

Brilliant stuff. I've played every class to the mid-teens, and my observations are pretty much right in line with yours (the exceptions are that I don't particularly enjoy playing my rogue, and I've never been in a group with my 'lock so I can't speak to how I feel playing him in a group).

On the other hand... as examples, Quark and NSD seem to really enjoy their roles in groups as rogues, and before his hiatus Pesmerga seemed to be the perfect example of someone who both excelled and enjoyed playing a hunter in groups. Mages start to come more into their own as group players at high levels as well; most of our UBRS runs have now degenerated into "AoE everything until we get to Rend" now that we're well-equipped and experienced enough to breeze through most of the instance, so the mages stay very busy.

But in general, you're right. Of course, the line you've drawn IS basically the DPS split. On our UBRS raids, if someone's running damage tracker you see it plainly (except when I've let someone else main tank and moved myself into DPS mode, in which case I usually out-damage a hunter or two, maybe the 'lock, and on one inexplicable occasion a mage). And as such, I think that what keeps the DPS classes interested is basically just seeing how much damage they're doing. Outside of laughter and issuing direction, the most common thing you're going to hear on TeamSpeak is someone gushing over the massive crit they just landed.

But Sommli IS a fantastic DPS-monkey, damnit. ;)

[Darian]

I'd say I play mostly for the people I typically play with.  If not for them, WoW would have lost its appeal long before Level 60, because (quite frankly) I think WoW is a crappy game.
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I don't think it's a crappy game... but yeah. I don't tank for me, I tank for my people.

[Roane]

So, those of you who play Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, or Shamans as your mains - do you feel this way as well in groups?  Does it seem like you're always just there for the ride?  Back to my original question - where do you find the love of playing WoW?  What is it that drives you to playing the game?  This is not a class flame/war, it's an honest question.
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I don't get bored in groups as a hunter, and I imagine I wouldn't as a rogue for the same reason -- I like being a peeler (I think I see it referred to in this game as an off-tank, but I'm not sure it's the same thing.) and I seem to be using that more as I've gone up in levels, not less. What I mean by peeler is that I'm watching the health of those other than the main tank, especially the squishies, and if I see one of them get aggro, I'm setting my cat on that mob. I'm still watching everyone's health and aggro though, a trait you're applying to tanks and healers, so I'm still interested by the same things you are -- just in a role that you perhaps didn't expect. I do have to say though that it's not near as intense as being primary healer for an instance group. That is a huge rush.

At the same time, I've noticed that the classes that are the most fun solo are the ones that make me feel like a bystander in groups.
[right][snapback]82197[/snapback][/right]

Where I get bored is in soloing those classes you say you find most interesting in group play, and I do agree with you that the tradeoff seems to be there. Since I solo much more often than I group until around 30 or 40, I have a hard time pushing myself past the early boredom of a priest or a warrior, even knowing that I'll be "rewarded" by fun group play later on.

You always hear of people being described as a fantastic tank or a fantastic healer, not a "fantastic DPS Monkey".
[right][snapback]82197[/snapback][/right]

Yeah, that makes me sad. DPS contributions seem to be taken for granted to some degree. Then again, maybe it's just that DPS never saves the day quite as obviously, a subject that I think we've touched on elsewhere. People notice that they almost died but were saved at the last minute. They don't notice when things just go smoothly.

[savaughn]

So, yes and no.

A mediocre tank needs a lot of CC and goes on autopilot. A medicre healer watches only the main tank and plays healbot. A mediocre hunter or rogue is nothing but a DPS monkey.

If you aren't using the benefits of your class, yes, you go on autopilot. What's more, some instances are EASY. You can solo pull or pull+CC everything. If you only have one mob to face, every class is boring. Tanking a solo mob is trivial and fighting a solo mob means the primary healer is pretty much just adding some DPS outside of the boss encounters and the occasional tricky bit in the later instances.

BUT...

EVERY class can contribute over and above this. A good hunter is the best puller in the game, drops traps pre- and mid-fight, picks pet targets (whether off-tanking or DPS'ing), etc. A warlock is keeping curses on multiple mobs, matching pets to targets, DPS'ing, CCing when necessary, etc. You've heard Drasca mention how he feels he really commands the field when in a group because warlocks are working everywhere. A rogue is throwing some initial CC and then playing the Aggro dance where you pull the mob then throw a feint, mixing it up with some stun lock, and if necessary ripping off to defend squishies.

I've brought all my folks up through the 40's at this point. Everybody has something to do during an instance run above and beyond the norm. The trick is just to find it. Well -- you also have to play with people who will let you DO that. I've played with groups that wouldn't let the tank tank. I've played with groups that wouldn't let the hunter pull or drop traps. I've played with groups that didn't know how to support a mage going AoE. There's a lot of people who do these things badly, but if learn how to do them well it's a lot of fun and the party just gets stronger because of it.

I'm reminded of the thread we had here at one point in time were some people were suggesting that you shouldn't DoT in groups because "things could go wrong!" Does it get boring playing a class if you're not allowed to actually play that class? Yup.

One other note. The earlier instances are designed to be do-able by people who've never seen them before and aren't sure how grouping works. If you actually know what you're doing, they're pretty trival and you get bored. If you have a group that really knows what it's doing and brings the right classes, you're pretty much zerging the early instances, no matter WHAT level you bring. I've done VC fairly trivially with 3 lvl 19/20's, for example (rogue/pally/hunter). RFD is, in many ways, the highest level "low level" instance in this respect. This are a lot more interesting once you start into the 5 or 6-man pulls in Uldaman or the marathon encounters in ZF, for example. The harder the pull, the more interesting (for everyone).

[mjdoom]

Yeah, that makes me sad.  DPS contributions seem to be taken for granted to some degree.  Then again, maybe it's just that DPS never saves the day quite as obviously, a subject that I think we've touched on elsewhere.  People notice that they almost died but were saved at the last minute.  They don't notice when things just go smoothly.
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I think this is one of those situations where you have indirect results so most people don't notice them. As a healer I can tell when dps goes down. It affects the length of battles and thus how long (and possibly to some extent how often) I have to heal. Being the primary healer for my latest Scarlet Strat run was mostly a breeze and we burned through the instance in less than 1.5 hours with one death when I missed a shield on a mage. The sheer dps in the group allowed us to kill mobs quickly enough that healing became very easy. About 2/3 of the way through the run I realized that even though we were moving at breakneck pace (drink on the run, etc.) I could still contribute a bit of dps and fulfill my healing role just fine.

I guess my point is that any bit of dps makes a difference. Pay attention to any battle where a dps class (rogue or mage) goes down early in a 5-man fight. This is a good way to lead to problems because that loss of dps leads to mobs living longer and doing more damage. As important as the tank/healer are to group survival they will not succeed in many cases without the dps there. I'm sure you could handle some encounters with 2 warriors and 3 priests but it would probably take all night and still be a nailbiter in the end. That dps is a very important part of a solid group.

- mjdoom

[Treesh]

Pay attention to any battle where a dps class (rogue or mage) goes down early in a 5-man fight.  This is a good way to lead to problems because that loss of dps leads to mobs living longer and doing more damage.  As important as the tank/healer are to group survival they will not succeed in many cases without the dps there.  I'm sure you could handle some encounters with 2 warriors and 3 priests but it would probably take all night and still be a nailbiter in the end.  That dps is a very important part of a solid group.
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I agree completely with this and this is part of the reason why no one is expendable in a group to me when I'm playing Aleri. There were times when the mages were more important to keep alive than the tank because without their DPS, we wouldn't have come out alive since Gnolack is protection specced and Aleri is holy and the things were doing more damage to us than we were to them without the mages around. To those who don't think DPS is that important, make them play some of these classes/specs that are really wimpy with DPS and see how much easier life is with some good solid DPS in the mix. Things that Gnolack and Aleri had huge issues with, Taranna and Etheramwen blew right through because of the extra DPS. Things can't hurt you as much if they die quickly. :)

[Roland]

My role as a Rogue goes way farther than just "DPS" monkey. I don't fall into the stereotypical "Sinister Strike" Rogue, so for me, positioning AND aggro attention are both exceedingly critical to my playing. If someone other than the tank (even the off-tanki) draws aggro, it can SEVERELY cripple my playing if I don't respond (and if proper measures are not taken beforehand to allow me to maneuver about without needing to worry about aggro-switching screwing up my positioning).

Also, being a Rogue, I play much more than just a "DPS machine" role. Stealthy scouting, pre-combat crowd-control, and protecting the casters from break-away mobs, as well as taking down runners before they can attract too much attention are all roles I fill on a regular basis. You, as the Tank, are used to pulling mobs off of casters. But what happens when the casters are far away from you (and with good reason), and you'll end up pulling the mobs to them by chasing down a stray? That's where I come in, to provide quick dispensing of troublesome mobs, or tanking just long enough to draw the mob back to the main Tank without him having to come to me. And when an add comes along and beelines straight for the casters' behind, never entering close to where the main tank is? Yep, I'm right there beelining for the mob, to either kill it quickly or drag it to the Tank.

Rogues are a very fluid, tactical class. If you stop paying attention for even 30 seconds, you're dead. Period. THAT is what keeps me going. That is my "love" for this class. I haven't found that in any other class yet (in Beta, the Paladin gave me the Love - I thought I'd hate Rogues; now, I can hardly imagine playing anything BUT Rogues). I keep trying to give Hunters a chance, but I just can't seem to find the fun to give me the ambition to continue.

Anyway, that's my input.

Edit:
Now that I've finished reading your post, I've been sparked to add that, yes, if I'm not doing any of the above in groups, I do tend to get bored. But since I spend so much of my time solo, I can never get into the "group" classes because they're just too damn time-consuming and frustrating while soloing. I don't want an "easy" ride, but I don't want to be struggling uphill my entire career only to find out in the end that it never levels off. It depresses me that I don't enjoy the other classes, particularly a few that I think I would LOVE if not for the things that bother me so much.

I don't know. I just love my Rogue, and have difficulty finding anything else I enjoy more due to NOT being in groups much at all, and that bothers me - not getting to experience the "true" core of the game because I can never get far enough to enjoy it.

[Roland]

I don't get bored in groups as a hunter, and I imagine I wouldn't as a rogue for the same reason -- I like being a peeler (I think I see it referred to in this game as an off-tank, but I'm not sure it's the same thing.) and I seem to be using that more as I've gone up in levels, not less.  What I mean by peeler is that I'm watching the health of those other than the main tank, especially the squishies, and if I see one of them get aggro, I'm setting my cat on that mob.  I'm still watching everyone's health and aggro though, a trait you're applying to tanks and healers, so I'm still interested by the same things you are -- just in a role that you perhaps didn't expect.

Ditto.

Where I get bored is in soloing those classes you say you find most interesting in group play, and I do agree with you that the tradeoff seems to be there.  Since I solo much more often than I group until around 30 or 40, I have a hard time pushing myself past the early boredom of a priest or a warrior, even knowing that I'll be "rewarded" by fun group play later on.

Ditto.

Yeah, that makes me sad.  DPS contributions seem to be taken for granted to some degree.  Then again, maybe it's just that DPS never saves the day quite as obviously, a subject that I think we've touched on elsewhere.  People notice that they almost died but were saved at the last minute.  They don't notice when things just go smoothly.

Ditto.

You summed it all up for me.

[TaiDaishar]

savaughn hit the nail on head this time, no class is a pure "DPS-monkey", every class can be played medicore and can also be played above and beyond the general main role of the class.

If you feel useless to the group you ought to be doing something wrong, you have to adept to the flow of the group you're playing with and if you do so there's no reason you should feel useless.

I enjoy partying with my Druid but I also enjoy soloing with him, the sheer versatility of a Druid makes him able to adept to almost anything you'll throw at him and this I like quite a lot when I group and even more when I solo.

With the Warlock I do not have quite a lot of group experience just yet but my solo play, quite like my Druid play has a large emphasis on versatility even at the low level that is 18 without even a Succubus.

[Drasca]

Where's crazy? I suppose that falls under exploratory, but social aspect keeps me here. Achiever helps a bit, as being more powerful in an underpowered gimp environment helps.

Not sure what level lock you played in Beta Bolty, but its a blast at 60. Some of the early instances are just outright boring imo. Uldaman & RFK/RFD come to mind.

40+ Demon spec warlocks can tank. Once you have a 56+ lock, have fun totally owning dire maul, especially solo'ing the demon areas. As a lock, I find having having all sorts of options available, from several forms of CC (banish, fear, howl, enslave) types of damage (delayed, dots, channeled, AoE, pet), tanking instance bosses with soul link when main goes down, and watching health bar jump and and down with healing and damage when I intentially steal aggro.

Healing/Damage/Healing taken meters are neat trinkets too. As a lock, its fun to be top 5 in Damage and damage taken, while also being marked down as one of those doing some healing.

Lately I've been twinking just how sick of damage I can do as a lock, sadly I've been pulling giants in MC... oops.

[Quark]

On the other hand... as examples, Quark and NSD seem to really enjoy their roles in groups as rogues, and before his hiatus Pesmerga seemed to be the perfect example of someone who both excelled and enjoyed playing a hunter in groups.

I have taken on many more responsibilities than just a Rogue that plays. For one, I have become a backseat puller. I'll scout out the mobs, Darian will pull, and I'll call what's coming out if we're doing a long pull. I'm the first to volunteer for Sap, and am always ready on the Distract button to help save from adds or pull solo patrollers. Darian knows how much I hate being Main Assist, and one of the main reasons for that is I'm so willing to go off into my own world to handle a situation. Stuff like peeling off for a blind, going into stunlock mode for a caster, or just trying to save the priest.

Part of my non-DPS mode comes from the fact that I had no tank getting to 60. It was always chaotic, so I had to be ready to use all my skills at my disposal.

But in general, you're right.  Of course, the line you've drawn IS basically the DPS split.  On our UBRS raids, if someone's running damage tracker you see it plainly (except when I've let someone else main tank and moved myself into DPS mode, in which case I usually out-damage a hunter or two, maybe the 'lock, and on one inexplicable occasion a mage).  And as such, I think that what keeps the DPS classes interested is basically just seeing how much damage they're doing.  Outside of laughter and issuing direction, the most common thing you're going to hear on TeamSpeak is someone gushing over the massive crit they just landed.

Too bad it's usually the Warlock or Hunter, since they have the talents to get that massive one hit :). In some respects this is true. Having DamageMeters running keeps me honest and involved - the evidence is right there if I'm slacking off, since I consider myself to be having a bad night if I finish out of the top (5man), top 2 (10man), or top 3 (15 man).

Some other responses show how running DamageMeters can help - it shows the contribution of non-tank/healers. I can say for one thing, my view on class balance shifted dramatically once I consistently saw the numbers in front of my own eyes. It's also common to hear at the end of the raids "post the stats, Quark!" Sometimes it can be an eye opener, though, and there's been a few times where I didn't want to post the stats but someone else asked :shuriken:.

It's kind of ironic that when things go wrong, I'm almost always ready to break off damage to go do something preventative. My talent and gear is designed for one thing only - damage. Well, that and Improved Sap.

But Sommli IS a fantastic DPS-monkey, damnit. ;)
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That showoff with his epic daggers :P Sommli also keeps himself preoccupied just by acting nonsensical. Others do it to, though not to his extent, and it just reminds you that you're supposed to have fun playing this game. Some runs that could have been really boring were made fun just by the way we were acting.

[Mirajj]

I can say for one thing, my view on class balance shifted dramatically once I consistently saw the numbers in front of my own eyes.  It's also common to hear at the end of the raids "post the stats, Quark!"  Sometimes it can be an eye opener, though, and there's been a few times where I didn't want to post the stats but someone else asked

And sometimes that helps. ;) I was certain I was doing more damage than I actually was until someone posted a damage meter report and I realized I (a hunter) was 11 out of 14. I managed to outDPS two priests and a druid somehow. I was shocked to say the least, and it led to some discussions with a couple of people about hunters and various talents and whatnot.

The only time I feel, not so much "bored" as "useless" is when we run UBRS, and the mages go AoE nuts. By the time I have a target, they've killed it. So there has been a time or two that I've felt like I'm just along for the haul until we reach Rend, and then things start to kick up.

The pleasure of the game comes for me in doing what I do, and doing it well. I am a big socializer, and a bit of an achiever and explorer. I like adding DPS and watching the monsters fall before me, I like being able to peel monsters off the healers/cloths, and onto me instead. I really just enjoy playing, as I have a great group of folk to do it with.

[fractaled]

Obviously there are the four player archetypes:

1) Killer - likes to engage and kill other players, which may or may not include griefing
2) Acheiver - likes to get better and better stuff, or build the ultimate character
3) Explorer - likes to know little details about game mechanics and gameplay, as much as possible
4) Socializer - likes the companionship of their fellow player

i'd add a 5th type... "builder"... that i'd describe as someone who likes to interact with the world...

i would primarilty describe myself as a "builder", and then explorer, and then socializer...

obviously WoW fails horribly (or doesn't even try) to appeal to people who want to interact with the world... it's doesn't have a whole lot to appeal to explorer types either...

--fractaled

[Bolty]

Not sure what level lock you played in Beta Bolty, but its a blast at 60. Some of the early instances are just outright boring imo. Uldaman & RFK/RFD come to mind. [right][snapback]82249[/snapback][/right]

I played a Warlock in beta to 47, and my release Warlock is currently 40. Haven't gotten to some of the post-40 interesting spells.

Again, soloing with my 'Lock is tons of fun. But she's Affliction/Demon spec'ed, so in groups where she becomes a DPS machine she's not all that good at it. I prefer playing my Warlock general-style, with CC and demon power. In many groups, that becomes less than useful. I'm just finding that the ol' bag of tricks gets so much smaller in groups in general, so unless I'm a tank or healer the interest level tails off.

Good posts in this thread. Fun is always where you find it!

The most enjoyable groups are always the non-standard ones. They force you to dig into the bag of tricks to survive.

-Bolty

[Skandranon]

Some runs that could have been really boring were made fun just by the way we were acting.
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I reject your notions of "crowd control". :whistling:

[Arnulf]

i'd add a 5th type... "builder"... that i'd describe as someone who likes to interact with the world...
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That puts you actually more in the explorer corner. Explorers are people who are interacting with the game world more than anything. Building (or crafting) new stuff is a way to discover new things of the world. (http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm; scroll down to the interest graph to see what I mean)

Of course, no one is a pure explorer, or a pure achiever. I would myself consider mostly achiever, then a bit of a socializer, and then last explorer. Discovering new stuff is always fun, but if you have the feeling you've seen 99% of the world, then that takes the back seat. Also while playing the game and building my first characters, I was 90% an explorer. Now that I'm in a guild which gears up for Molten Core and have a 60 pally, I'm a socializer/achiever. Which also means that I'm rarely playing my low-level alts.

It's funny, but the social part of the game becomes more important to me lately. It is crucial to know the people that I'm associating with to tackle the big things in game. We had some drama in our guild. How do we handle this as a group? How do we handle this if that happens again?

Also what people are playing on our server? You know, I could find myself with them in every one of the high Instances (UBRS, Scholo, Stratholme, etc.). Using teamspeak adds a great part to this.
Going into a group to discover that the Nightelf warrior talks in the broadest Vienna dialect is one example (had to turn off my microphone because I had to laugh...).

So to sum it up, the focus shifts somewhat. In the beginning mostly explorer, in mid-game achiever (build up a character for end-game stuff), and in the end-game socializer-achiever.

-Arnulf

[Tal]

Hmmmm I think in general I prefer to play my paladin in groups than my warrior unless Sharanna is being called to MT. Then I generally do not enjoy it as much because I don't have the dmg mitigation and snap aggro that I really need. Healer getting aggro and taking damage? Drop a heal on them or BoP them. Mage getting aggro during AoE? Chain spam flash of light to help keep them on their feet. Better yet charge in with the warrior with retibution aura on and consecrate the ground to give mages some breathing space at least initially. Loose mob heading for the casters? Fist of justice to stop them in their tracks and bring back to the MT. Things going wrong™ in a final boss encounter? Lay of hands and additional heal power ftw!

But Shalandrax is fun to MT on as well with a very good group. The only times I struggle on managing aggro is if I'm trying to avoid breaking an incoming CC. Otherwise I just smack them and and add sunders to each refreshing as necessary as we go through the fight. Being arms fury I tend to have to drop in and out of battle and defensive stances so it requires a lot more attention.

Playing a mage is more challenging in a group than I thought it would be as aggro control while keeping the fights as short and mana efficient as possible. Being ready to counterspell and polymorph means that you spend a great deal of time scanning the field. Knowing when to pull aggro off the main tank is also a delicate balance. :)

[Alrin]

Well, having played my mage up to 60 (soloed most of the way) and now my warrior who is coming up on 60 I have learned some things. Playing a mage vs a warrior is like black and white. Atleast to me. When soloing as a mage, my playstyle is centered around dishing out obscene dps in a quick burst. PoM Pyroblasts, fireblasts and such help facilitate this style.
My warrior? Sure. He has a 50dps 2hander weapon. Does he do quick burst dps? No. No No No. Not at all.
He wears things down at a steady rate and can quickly finish a mob when it reaches >20% health. But he can sustain alot of adds and deal with them accordingly. Could my mage do that? Not reliably. Atleast not in the amount that a plate wearing warrior in defensive stance can. (though, dont go thinking I solo 1on1 in defensive stance. Atleast not unless its a 3+ level difference)

For instance runs:
My mage can be one of those autopilot classes. Toss a sheep here and there if needed, shoot some scorching fire around and let loose PoM pyroblasts to help finish off dangerous mobs. But all in all, its a no-brainer.
Now, as my warrior is reaching the high normal instances my view has changed completely.
I tanked through ST yesterday and that was a whole new ballgame. (yes, its not a 60 instance but it was an eye-opener)
It's one of those places that mistakes tend to become glaringly apparent when you make them. As let mobs slip by and fail to hold your target down. I think its interesting to see the difference of focus needed when it comes to a (say 5man run) between a warrior and a mage. (I am making this comparison because those are my highest toons)
A mage can - much like bolty said on his lock - almost sleep his way through an instance, really. Just dont over-nuke.
A warrior needs to be on his toes, literally. If he's not, people will start finding themselves on their backs.

For me, the love comes from beating things I see people asking for groups to do often.
I love to achieve "impossible" things. I am also all about building the strongest mage/warrior/whatever I can.
I love to be a part of a well oiled raid/5man that steamrolls content :)
I love to solo, to get that feeling of independence while still being ready to step in a group at a moments notice.
I strive to be better every day. In fact, I would consider myself to be the Anti-n00b personified. (see the n00b thread)
I need that satisfaction to enjoy the dancing pixels. To be able to reach Nerdvana when I cap that last 8th toon and have a full 60 army would be The Ultimate Feat.

Anyway, I'm turning into rambling-mode.

/EOF