Terenas 2/24

[vor_lord]

I'm not sure exactly what we'll be doing but I wanted to get the thread started as it makes it easier to do the signup maintenance if it's part of the first post.

I will not be there this weekend as I'll be out of town. I also will probably not be available (or only semi-available) on March 17th.

Saturday night Necrali, Fazuul, and Magead went back into ZG with Keepers of the Dusk and friends. In the two weeks since I went with them last time they have gotten quite a bit more efficient. We cleared through Venoxis and Jeklik with no deaths this time. Mandokir took a few tries due to problems keeping the tank alive. We were able to be in on the first Mar'li kill for that group (3 tries, second with the 'winning' strategy).

A couple of things I learned:

• Phase 1 Jeklik -- just everyone but melee stay away and together. Periodic charges happen but she returns to the tank (tank do not chase). The AoE silence never hit any of the ranged attackers this way, and we were able to do our jobs. Staying together helps ensure the bats are properly gathered up for AoE. They assigned all shamans/spare melee to help gather the bats for AoE but I think if you're together it shouldn't be a big deal (they're headed for the healers anyway).<>
  
• I have a hard time keeping 3 mages alive during AoE. We had three mages all night. Up until we went into the spider area we had two priests and no problems. Once it was just me, it seemed like one of them was going to die against every pull of those nasty spiders.<>
  
• One way to kill Mar'li (I'm sure there are others). Another very long fight (I used inner focus twice so I know it was long).<>
  [st]Some of the things they do I think we might do well to consider emulating. For example, hopefully Alram can explain how they assigned CC because it seemed to go very quickly. They also keep target selection for DPS very simple: if it doesn't have a hunter's mark (from designated hunter) and two sunders, you don't hit it. I thought Lurkers/Lost Souls were very good about our CC and trash mob clearing but this did simplify things for new people. They used two warriors, alternating which one would break CC on each mob in turn (not that that would be important but they felt it gave them more efficiency).
  
  At any rate, I broke into Friendly with Zandalar Tribe. I need 5 Bloodscalp Coins (have 1) and 5 Sandfury Coins (have 2), 2 Yellow Bijous (have none), and a Primal Hakkari Stanchion for my bracers.
  
  Place and event(s) TBD 2/24
  
  Code:

  Lurker Character            
-----------------------------
Conc         (60 Warrior)
Durambar     (60 Warrior)
Fazuul       (60 Druid)
Rogoll       (60 Rogue)
Marntruehorn (60 Hunter)
Mogoraindyn  (60 Shaman)
Octord       (60 Warlock)
Yuri         (60 Mage)

[Alram]

I'll be there on 2/24. I will not be on late enough on 2/25 to do any kind of late party on Saturday.

I do have a number of remarks to say regarding our experience in ZG, but will post them later.

[Treesh]

Friday I can do. Saturday I'll probably be around, but I'm not going to say "Absolutely yes, sign me up for something" in case something comes up or I just feel worn out or whatever.

Edit: Aha! No wonder that date was ringing a bell. My folks will be traveling down here that weekend. Friday is still available, but I won't be around on Saturday after all.

[Alram]

I just sent this email to Olan and Mystique

Hi,
I'll send you a longer more detailed email later; my time is limited atm.
1. We like you guys and would like to do a weekly raid with you.
2. I am learning that this takes a lot of coordination, time and effort.&nbsp; I think it would help if we had a forum where all our members could go and read up on particulars. I'd be happy to use your website when you get one, or you can use ours or we can use a neutral forum. Thepumpkinking.com has been offered to us as a neutral site for joint posting of our guilds if you like.
3. There are ways in which we can improve&nbsp; our efficiency and effectiveness in large raids in ZG--more on that in a later email.
4. On 2/24 we will not have our main priest, Necrali. If you can bring 2 priests we can still do ZG, otherwise we might need to go elsewhere.

[VoiceMan]

I believe Friday will be fine for me. I expect to be there. Hopefully we can still tackle ZG, but without Necrali, I believe that leaves only Feero from LS as the priest. Deadpriest can't play Fridays, iirc. So I can see us having healing problems on a ZG run, but we would have enough healing for most anything else we could get to. I personally have interest in everything from BRD to Strat Dead, Scholo, LRBS, and UBRS. Each place has either a quest I'd like to finish, or has a boss that could possibly drop some goodies for me. I also wouldn't mind hitting Warpwood in DM a few times in hopes he drops some pants. It seems Fazuul is doing alot of healing these days, especially with the ZG runs, and he needs better healing gear. So, while I would prefer we run ZG this week, it will be all right with me if we don't. I think Necrali, Magead and FAzuul learned alot on Saturday night with the ZG run we went on. Fazuul's current goodie list from ZG includes 2 of the needed 5 Sandfury coins, one of the 5 needed Hakkashi coins,one of the tw needed green Bijou, and the Primal Sash, all that go towards the Haruspex belt. I also scored the Primalist's Seal ring. :D

[Alram]

Some of the things they do I think we might do well to consider emulating. For example, hopefully Alram can explain how they assigned CC because it seemed to go very quickly. They also keep target selection for DPS very simple: if it doesn't have a hunter's mark (from designated hunter) and two sunders, you don't hit it. I thought Lurkers/Lost Souls were very good about our CC and trash mob clearing but this did simplify things for new people. They used two warriors, alternating which one would break CC on each mob in turn (not that that would be important but they felt it gave them more efficiency).

The tank announced who the 1st target was for focus fire and the mages picked their own targets. I was assigned targets until I figured out that I was supposed to pick my own. By marking the target with Detect Magic it not only told the party who the sheep targets were, but it also prevented 2 mages from picking the same target to sheep. I have no idea how the druids knew which druid was hibernating which mob. Perhaps Fazuul can illuminate us on that. As Necrali mentioned, the initial focus fire target was marked by the 1 hunter designated for the task. As mentioned 2 warriors altermated the tanking. The next warrior in line would begin tanking his trash mob when the current trash mob was at 10-20% health; this also sped things up and did not result in any warrior deaths.

They made frequent use of CTRA to broadcast messages. This was helpful. Macros probably help. Everyone was not on Vent, and I think that the CTRA broadcasts probably helped compensate for that.

There were a couple of things they did wrong which involved failure to communicate.
For example, during the fight with the spider boss their strategy involved telling everyone (via CTRA and Vent) to stop DPS at certain points. They erred by never telling people when to resume DPS--so we had to guess. Then they got bent out of shape because someone resumed DPS too early. After several requests they also began broadcasting when to resume DPS.

[Concillian]

I will be there, but am unsure how dedicated I can be due to other things happening that night. If they are too distracting I may need to pull out.

In any event, the warlock should be full 60 by then, so can be substituted in place of the warrior if needed, priest can too, but given that I may be somewhat distracted, I'd prefer to leave the priest off the table this week.

[khgerg]

Octord will be there.

[Xame]

Yuri will be there. Tailoring is up to 175 and I'm off collecting mageweave (I dropped my 300 skinning this week). I should be good to go minus bag space issues because of tailoring (the 50g for the next bank slot is just enough to bug me).

[bonemage]

I should be there with Durambar for ZG, but won't be attending the late session, as I have commitments Saturday morning.

[Kevin]

I guess I never said I would be there with Marn on Friday. So I'm saying that now.

[Concillian]

So, do we have enough Lost Souls to fill the slots for ZG?

Even if we only have 16 we can hit Venoxis and work on our group skills on trash, trying to speed up pulls in ways similar to those Alram suggested (tank swapping, auto assignment of sheep, etc...) Seems trivial, but I think it would be a very important item to work on, as it is a weakness we've hand (I have to admit to some moments of boredom last week).

[VoiceMan]

What I liked about the run I went on Wednesday night to ZG with Keepers of The Dusk, was how they assigned sheep/CC targets. The person who was in charge of setting up the pulls would simply say the name of the character through Vent (it would be TS for us), and that player would assist him to get his CC target, and then he'd move to the next, etc. The trick, is making sure everyone in the raid is paying attention, and is focused so we could move forward. Also, they allowed 3-4 AKF's at a time when the raid was pulling trash mobs, as it didn't take the whole raid to handle trash mobs. Only a couple of times would we stop completely to allow bio breaks, etc. As a result, we were able to down 5 bosses in something like 4 hours, including an encounter they had never tried before. The tank swapping on the trash mobs also helped keep it moving. Once CC targets were assigned, then the main tank would pull, and at 2 sunders, the raid would begin DPS. The second tank also waited for the two sunders, but once the target was at about 40% health, the second tank would go break the next CC target, usually one a druid had hibernated, and began locking it down. That way, he had 2 sunders on that target by the time the raid was done killing the first target. Once the first target was down, the main tank would then help with DPS until 40%, and then he'd go break the next CC'd target. As a result, we didn't really us a Main Assist, as we assisted the tanks. I think we as a group are so used to using a MA that we may want to keep that, but I did like the pace at which the raid was able to move that way - assign CC targets, and then follow the tanks, which alternated their tanking duties every other mob. We had very few problems of DPS classes, or clothies having aggro, except on the big AoE type situations, or where we had a number of spiders running around, etc. All things considered, the raid paid attention, followed instructions, avoided alot of needless chatter on Vent, and we kept moving. I think the big key was having everyone on Vent. I know our previous runs with LS has had a number of people either unable or unwilling to get on TS, and I think to be effective as a group, we'll want to do what we can to fix that. Just my thoughts on what was a very successful ZG run Wednesday night, that I was priviledged to be a part of.

[Concillian]

As a result, we didn't really us a Main Assist, as we assisted the tanks.&nbsp; I think we as a group are so used to using a MA that we may want to keep that, but I did like the pace at which the raid was able to move that way - assign CC targets, and then follow the tanks, which alternated their tanking duties every other mob.&nbsp;
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Well with the CTRA MT windows, you don't really need an MA in these cases, as long as you know which to follow.

MA is more important in 5 man content, where a tank is swapping targets. In a raid environment you have a tank on each target that isn't CC'd, so an MA isn't really necessary so much as a "DPS call". Assigning someone to CTRA announce DPS On / Off may be a better overall option for raiding.

We are trained so well for 5 man content that we have a bit of re-learning to go through for raid type content, I think.

[VoiceMan]

Well with the CTRA MT windows, you don't really need an MA in these cases, as long as you know which to follow. 

MA is more important in 5 man content, where a tank is swapping targets.  In a raid environment you have a tank on each target that isn't CC'd, so an MA isn't really necessary so much as a "DPS call".  Assigning someone to CTRA announce DPS On / Off may be a better overall option for raiding.

We are trained so well for 5 man content that we have a bit of re-learning to go through for raid type content, I think.
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I agree. We'll be short on mages I think too, which means we'll be forced to tank two trash mobs at a time, unfortunately. I really loved having only one target at a time as a healer. We'll just be short on CC, which will make it tough on us. On the rare pulls we had more than one target up at a time, we had one hunter assigned to mark the target, and I guess that was as close as we came to following an actual Main Assist.

[Alram]

So, do we have enough Lost Souls to fill the slots for ZG?&nbsp;

Even if we only have 16 we can hit Venoxis and work on our group skills on trash, trying to speed up pulls in ways similar to those Alram suggested (tank swapping, auto assignment of sheep, etc...)&nbsp; Seems trivial, but I think it would be a very important item to work on, as it is a weakness we've hand (I have to admit to some moments of boredom last week).
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1. In the interest of communication with LS I have been posting the latest updates on the raid on the guildportal websites--posting in LS forum and putting updates in our News section on the home page.

The current count is:

At this point we have 15 people signed up: 9 Lurkers and 6 Lost Souls.
2 druids
1 hunter
2 mages
2 priests (1 is level 57)
1 rogue
2 shamans
1 warlock
4 warriors
We might have an additional hunter as well, which would bring us to a total of 16.

If we do ZG, given the low number in the raid, I am willing to switch to my mage for the night which would give us 3 mages and no rogue.

As a backup plan I suggest UBRS--10-11 people and a 5 man. Yuri and Treesh have a key to UBRS. Two possible backup configurations would be:

UBRS
Mogo (key)
Marn
priest
2 warriors
rogue
mage
druid
warlock
additional shaman
additional hunter

5 man
priest
2 warriors
mage
druid

or

UBRS
2 priest
2 warriors
rogue
mage-Yuri (key)
2 druids
warlock
additional shaman
additional hunter

5 man
Marn
2 warriors
mage
Mogo

Obviously other divisions are possible as well.

edit: I have posted this on the LS boards as well.

[VoiceMan]

Looks good to me. I think 15-16 can take down Venoxis, if we're on the ball, but I don't think I would try anything beyond that. We really need 18-20 in order to do too much in ZG beyond Venoxis, I think. At least until we're pretty familiar with the encounters. And I know that most of us in both guilds still have gear desires in places like DM, LBRS, UBRS, Scholo, Strat, etc. So if we don't have enough tonight, we can try Venoxis a couple of times, and then go do something else.

[Concillian]

Looks good to me.&nbsp; I think 15-16 can take down Venoxis, if we're on the ball, but I don't think I would try anything beyond that.&nbsp; We really need 18-20 in order to do too much in ZG beyond Venoxis, I think.&nbsp; At least until we're pretty familiar with the encounters.&nbsp; And I know that most of us in both guilds still have gear desires in places like DM, LBRS, UBRS, Scholo, Strat, etc.&nbsp; So if we don't have enough tonight, we can try Venoxis a couple of times, and then go do something else.
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Yeah, I would agree, but I think some additional practice on speeding up trash pulls would be useful as well. Maybe clear a couple hoodoo piles to look for some voodoo dolls and such.

Maybe Venoxis + a couple Hoodoo piles with a focus on learning to speed up pulling / killing, then break out in other groups.