A sign of the times

[Jim]

Hi,

It's a shame he didn't kill himself and improve the human gene pool.

Lenny your death wish comment is not representative of us here at the lurker lounge. We have a good debate on all subjects but we do Not wish harm to others.

Sorry, Jim, but I disagree. You might not agree with Lenny's statement, but yours is not the only, or possibly even majority, opinion on this at the Lounge. Many of us find the Darwins Awards humorous. Some of us (me included) routinely make comments about 'retroactive birth control', 'natural selection', and 'chlorine in the gene pool'.

Besides, Lenny did not wish him harm. The kid did the harm to himself. Lenny just wished he'd finished the job -- a wish which I half humorously, half seriously, agree with.

Heinlein wrote "Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity." Unfortunately, Heinlein used the wrong tense. At one time this was true, but no longer. When it was true, it helped us evolve intelligence. We then got smart enough to protect the stupid and stupid enough to do it. Since then, I strongly suspect, we've been evolving stupidity.

So, let me join Lenny. We could use more of that chlorine in that pool.

Jim, feel free to express your opinions. Feel free to disagree with that of others. But, by damn, do not try to force your PC stance on what, until now, has been a politically open forum.

--Pete

Hi,

Sorry Pete, but I disagree with your interpretation of my statement. Who the heck made you Judge & Jury here at LL? All I see in many of your replies is a bitter person.

Death of a child or any person by stupidy is not half humorous. ~ Jim Horvath

How does your statement differ from mine, "Many of us find" are you speaking for me Pete? We both use the word "US". Who gave you the right to speak for me, or as you said and I quote "by damn, do not try to force your PC stance on what, until now, has been a politically open forum."

FORCE? what force, where do you see force in my statement?

Let me show you what Force is:

(Yesterday 09:10 PM)Concillian Wrote: . . . you have to admit that wishing someone dead because of a decision made at 13 is at least a little extremist.

No, I don't. Best to nip the problem before it spreads.

Kidding aside, it has only been in the last few years (comparatively speaking) that a person of 13 years is considered a child. In many religions and many cultures, it is about then that a child becomes an adult (usually tied to puberty). Only recently has this changed. Now, because of the way we treat them, adolescents continue to act as children. I would expect a child of seven to know better than to set himself on fire, much less one of 13.

--Pete

How do you NIP someones opinion, ooops sorry Problem, I don't want to put words in your mouth Pete but it sounds like you want to stop an opinion before others agree with it...now that is force?

In Arizona it's 14 year old, have you forgotten your political opinion on: The sexual abuse and exploitation of minors as “child brides” within the FDLS.

Jim, feel free to express your opinions. Feel free to disagree with that of others. But, by damn, do not try to force your PC stance on what, until now, has been a politically open forum.

Thanks for your permission to express my opinions Pete. However I was expressing my opinion, But, by damn you shot it down in your usual caustic rhetoric. Read it again although that point is moot since I made a correction to my original post and changed "Us to I" & "We to 'Me", hmmm sounds a bit like the Ayn Rand novel Anthem.

Pete, LQQK what I found in the dictionary:

in-house phi·los·o·pher:......>

–noun
1. a person who offers views or theories on profound questions in ethics, metaphysics, logic, and other related fields.
2. a person who is deeply versed in philosophy.
3. a person who establishes the central ideas of some movement, cult, etc.
4. a person who regulates his or her life, actions, judgments, utterances, etc., by the light of philosophy or reason.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Enough!

blah, blah, blah

First learn to post.

If you give a link, you don't need to copy the whole thing , or even a large part of it, into your post.

If you're replying to a small piece of a large post, delete the unnecessary parts. Stop making us re-read twelve posts to find your one comment.

If you have nothing to add, add nothing.

Second, think!

You posted "Lenny your death wish comment is not representative of us here at the lurker lounge. We have a good debate on all subjects but we do Not wish harm to others."

That statement is BS because, first, you are not representative of the Lounge. Second, Lenny's statement is representative of the ironic, often dark, humor here. Third, except on the topics of cheating in games and software piracy, the Lounge is a free speech zone. Fourth, there is a huge difference between threatening somebody and saying that somebody would be better off dead (or that humanity would be better off with someone dead).

All I see in many of your replies is a bitter person.

And all I see in your posts is a fool who I'm going to ignore in about one more post.

Grow a sense of humor, grow a thicker hide, and grow up.

--Pete

[LennyLen]

Sorry Pete, but I disagree with your interpretation of my statement.

What 'interpretation?' Pete was replying to the literal meaning of your words. If what you said wasn't what you were meaning, then you should try to actually write what you mean.

How does your statement differ from mine, "Many of us find" are you speaking for me Pete? We both use the word "US". Who gave you the right to speak for me, or as you said and I quote "by damn, do not try to force your PC stance on what, until now, has been a politically open forum."

The difference should be clearly obvious. In your statement, the 'us' implies every single member of the forum. Pete's "many of us" only means some of the members. I'm sure you understand the difference between some and all.

How do you NIP someones opinion, ooops sorry Problem, I don't want to put words in your mouth Pete but it sounds like you want to stop an opinion before others agree with it...now that is force?

How did you manage to interpret that as stopping people's opinions? The problem Pete was referring to was, again obviously, stupidity. In other words, stopping further acts of stupidity by letting the stupid person kill themself. There's nothing in there about forcing opinions upon people, or even forcing death on the person. Furthermore, Pete said in the very next line that he was kidding.

In Arizona it's 14

What is 14?

However I was expressing my opinion

The problem was that you expressed your opinion by saying it was the opinion of every member of this community. It's clearly not.

[Vandiablo]

Enough!

... bitter person.

.. fool ...

I'd sure hate to be security at the Old Folks Home Care Center for the Chronologically Challenged.

Grow a sense of humor, grow a thicker hide, and grow up.

Good advice. Easier to say than to do, evidently.

Hope you two take your meds soon.

Love and chuckles,
Van

p.s. Chuckles are yummy. Maybe I'll get some for my kids today. We are going to have a fun day.

[Vandiablo]

... but have we, as a society, really gotten so brain dead that we can no longer distinguish between fact and fiction?

As Erik says towards the end of Sauna: "I know what is fiction and what is real."

Yep, and Dorothy knew, once she woke up, that Oz was a dream.

(But it did allow her to tell all the county that she saw that evil Almira Gulch riding a broom during the tornado. Miss Gulch eventually had to move, and Toto was saved!)

[eppie]

Hope you two take your meds soon.

Haha, an old people's fight on the net.

It is like a digital cat-fight.


No you shut up or else I tie a knot in your lan-cable.

[kandrathe]

... by saying it was the opinion of every member of this community. It's clearly not.

<high pitched voice of nobility>WE are not amused.</high pitched voice of nobility>

I think the biggest issue here is in speaking for people who can speak for themselves. If they choose to remain lurking, so be it.

---

Correction:

No you shut up or else I tie a knot in your lan-cable.catheter.

[--Pete]

Hi,

In other words, stopping further acts of stupidity by letting the stupid person kill themself.

Actually, the conversation by that point had turned somewhat to genetics. I meant my comment in the sense that it was better for stupid people to die before they bred and passed the 'stupid' gene on. Of course, it was tongue in cheek, since we have no idea what the 'stupid' gene is, or even if it exists.

What is 14?

I believe he's talking about the age of consent for sexual activities. If so, he is wrong two ways. While some states did have low AoC in the past, now they are all in the 16-18 year range (Arizona is 18). Second, sexual activity is not the only measure of maturity. Society has placed age limits on many other things, such as the age to drive, the age to drink, to enlist, to marry, to be tried as an adult, etc.

--Pete

[Jim]

Hi,

What is 14?

I believe he's talking about the age of consent for sexual activities. If so, he is wrong two ways. While some states did have low AoC in the past, now they are all in the 16-18 year range (Arizona is 18).

--Pete

Hi,
STATUTORY RAPE LAWS BY STATE

The age of consent varies by state, with most states, including Connecticut, setting it at age 16.
The age of consent in other states ranges from ages 14 to 18.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/r...r-0376.htm

The FDLS of Arizona sexually abuse their children well under the AOC.
Arizona § 13-1405
Sexual conduct with a minor to engage in sexual intercourse with someone under age 18.
(1) If the minor is under age 15, five years in prison;
(2) if the offender is at least age 18 or is tried as an adult and the minor was age 12 or younger, life in prison and the offender is ineligible for release until serving 35 years;
(3) if the offender is at least 18 or tried as an adult and the victim is age 12, 13, or 14, the presumptive sentence is 20 years; or
(4) if the minor is at least age 15, it is punishable by one year in prison

Worldwide ages of consent chart.
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

USA Indiana 14/16
USA Iowa 14/16
Mexico 12-18 Male-Female Sex, 12-18 Male-Male Sex, 12-18 Female-Female Sex

[--Pete]

Hi,

The FDLS of Arizona sexually abuse their children well under the AOC.

So what? What does that have to do with anything in this thread? And even if it does, what does it add? What is there to reply?

Arizona § 13-1405
Sexual conduct with a minor to engage in sexual intercourse with someone under age 18.
(1) If the minor is under age 15, five years in prison;
(2) if the offender is at least age 18 or is tried as an adult and the minor was age 12 or younger, life in prison and the offender is ineligible for release until serving 35 years;
(3) if the offender is at least 18 or tried as an adult and the victim is age 12, 13, or 14, the presumptive sentence is 20 years; or
(4) if the minor is at least age 15, it is punishable by one year in prison

So? Is this in rebuttal or support of my statement? This is cut & paste from the link you gave. The first statement defines the age (18) below which this applies -- that's the age of consent. The points you number are specific cases and the punishment for each. It doesn't change the fact that the AoC in Arizona is 18.

USA Indiana 14/16
USA Iowa 14/16

Look at the footnotes. There are exceptions for married couple, couples close to each other in age, etc. In some places, depending on the ages and age difference, the offense can range from a major felony to a misdemeanor. But the AoC is that age at which a person can consent to have sex with anyone. And your own link supports my statement.

Mexico 12-18 Male-Female Sex, 12-18 Male-Male Sex, 12-18 Female-Female Sex

Given that AoC is tangential, isn't dragging other countries even more so? What's the point? That kids in third world countries have to grow up faster than the coddled brats of the industrialized countries?

--Pete

[Jim]

Hi,

The FDLS of Arizona sexually abuse their children well under the AOC.

So what? What does that have to do with anything in this thread? And even if it does, what does it add? What is there to reply?

Hi,

It all started with lenny's Post #9

As for getting off topic it happens.

"What does that have to do with anything in this thread?" See post #41

Pete said: now they are all in the 16-18 year range (Arizona is 18).
Jim said: The age of consent in other states ranges from ages 14 to 18. You were wrong live with it or reply to it.

edit: Calm down Pete your going to give yourself a heart attack.

[--Pete]

Hi,

It all started with Lenny's post #9

Whatever.

"What does that have to do with anything in this thread?" See post #41

Yeah, it was indeed in post 41 where you introduced the age of consent pretty well out of the clear blue. It had nothing to do with what we were talking about there, or if it did, you sure didn't make a connection. And you've repeated it a number of times, still with no connection. So, I ask you again, what does this have to do with anything else in this thread?

In Arizona it's 14 year old,

You gave two links to AoC. One states, unambiguously that it is 18, the other that it is 18 but that there are different punishments for different conditions. Do you not read your own links?

. . . have you forgotten your political opinion on: The sexual abuse and exploitation of minors as “child brides” within the FDLS.

My crystal ball is busted. I even went so far as to do a search of the fora. Now, help me. Just what is this, repeated, cryptic comment to mean?

edit: Calm down Pete your going to give yourself a heart attack.

I might, if I really cared. The crappy writing on the episode of Charmed I'm watching as I write this is raising my BP more than anything here.

--Pete

[LavCat]

My cat turns 18 next year.

[Jim]

. . . have you forgotten your political opinion on: The sexual abuse and exploitation of minors as “child brides” within the FDLS.

My crystal ball is busted. I even went so far as to do a search of the fora. Now, help me. Just what is this, repeated, cryptic comment to mean?

--Pete

Hi,

We did not agree on the legal age of consent for the children being molested at the FLDS compound, I said 14 you said 18, you were correct, that is why 14 yoa is in my memory bank.

I'm working on my humor how is this?

WoW I found my picture in the dictionary
Gentleman...>

4. a civilized, educated, sensitive, or well-mannered man: He behaved like a true gentleman.

I love cats, LavCat

[kandrathe]

We did not agree on the legal age of consent for the children being molested at the FLDS compound, I said 14 you said 18, you were correct, that is why 14 yoa is in my memory bank.

Legal age of consent for molestation? Something is wrong with our society, when we can write a phrase like that and to us it makes sense. It seems bizarre that the legal ages for "adult" continues to be raised, but the rates of pregnancy for young girls is skyrocketing. Anyway... There is this schizophrenia with shock and outrage with pregnancy and sexuality in children on the one hand, and an epidemic of sexualization of children and adolescents in media and marketing on the other.

[--Pete]

Hi,

We did not agree on the legal age of consent for the children being molested at the FLDS compound, I said 14 you said 18, you were correct, that is why 14 yoa is in my memory bank.

Legal age of consent for molestation? Something is wrong with our society, when we can write a phrase like that and to us it makes sense.

I believe you're parsing King Jim's sentence incorrectly. I think the correct reading is (legal age of consent) for (the children being molested) and not your (legal age of consent for) (the children) (being molested). In other words, 'being molested' modifies 'the children' not 'legal age of consent'.

It seems bizarre that the legal ages for "adult" continues to be raised, but the rates of pregnancy for young girls is skyrocketing.

First, a quibble. The pregnancy rate for young girls is zero. Young girls don't ovulate. The correct term for a post pubescent young person is adolescent. Does it matter? I don't know, but I once was told by a male nurse that more men might be attracted to his profession if it's name wasn't synonymous with 'breast feeding'.

Second, simple math. As you raise the legal age for 'adult', and if you insist that only 'adult' and 'child' exist, then an increase in 'children' giving birth occurs even if the actual numbers by age don't change. It is a commonly abused technique often called 're-binning'.

Finally, why 'bizarre'? As we continue to hold our youth to lower and lower standards, denying them responsibility and experience by excusing them as being children, does it not follow that, unchecked, they will do more and more self destructive things?

There is this schizophrenia with shock and outrage with pregnancy and sexuality in children on the one hand, and an epidemic of sexualization of children and adolescents in media and marketing on the other.

I guess that I'm in a real nit-picking mood, but isn't the word you're looking for 'dichotomy'? Or, perhaps, if you think of those who express shock and outrage and how often they are the very ones doing the exploiting (think about it, who owns and runs big companies?) a better choice might be 'hypocrisy'.

--Pete

[NuurAbSaal]

Hi,

I guess that I'm in a real nit-picking mood

--Pete

You mean there are others?

/flee

take care
Tarabulus

[--Pete]

Hi,

You mean there are others?

/flee

Well, yeah. There's pissy, grouchy, mean, sardonic, insulting, sarcastic, patronizing, pedantic, combative etc. There's also some bad ones. And any February 29th that falls on a blue moon, I'm nice.

--Pete

[Jim]

Hi,

NuurAbSaal your avatar looks just like...naaah...Who is the Kid?

The man with the cane is our very own Lurker Lounge "Official Curmudgeon" & I am on his left or is he on my right.

[kandrathe]

I guess that I'm in a real nit-picking mood...

I feel very descurfed. Thanks.