NeverDeath

[Caaroid]

Thanks to both of you for the link. I suspected that I'm not the one to vitness Ruvanal err for the first time, hence the hesitant argument ;)

About actually playing this char: well, I'd need the equipment at first. I think the armor and the shield will be easy to shop for (Charsi hell should be able to provide it), but the amulet, and the circlet will be a pain to find (=gambe) - even if I am not targetting +3 skillers in either case.

[Nightwind]

Poison is handled by antidote potions fairly well (and by the shrines unbelievably well), so it is a lesser priority.

couldn't you use that jade dagger, the one that maxes poison reist, adds huge poison dammage, and, IIRC, reduces durration as well?

[Nightwind]

All these damages are higher than the previous list.  It's only with damages above 200 or so that the -35% of Stormshield does more than a -36 shield.  Now, this would be the case for a lot of bosses and monsters under the influence of auras and such, and the Stormshield would thus probably be a better overall choice.  But I think the point was a highly-specialized set of equipment for having really high DR against normal monsters.

lets take a look at the orriginal premise.

Is it 1.10 hell viable was asked up there.
It isn't really being adressed.

Once you in hell, wouldn't the dammage be high enough to make the 50% that is the max, more then the minimum you would have to give up in -dr reduced to get it?

[Nightwind]

I'm about to hit clvl 87 on ladder, at which point I hope to complete a trade for a -15% shop price gheeds and "convert" to a gold finding set of equip/charms, just so I can play with dumping mass gold on coronet gambles (wasn't it adeyke that pointed out circlets that get upgraded show as coronets, so that circlets in the gamble window are never tiara/diadem?).

Don't forget to do it in act 2 post quest reward. Or dosen't the discount actually aply to gambeling?

[Caaroid]

Once you in hell, wouldn't the dammage be high enough to make the 50% that is the max, more then the minimum you would have to give up in -dr reduced to get it?

Actually, what I suggested in my initial post, and what adeyke put forward in his reply is exatly a reply to this question. The numbers I gave you (coming from the AS, mind you, so might be inaccurate) mean that you can practically eliminate hell act 5 melee damage, as opposed to 50% PDF, what would only halve it.

[Crystalion]

Don't forget to do it in act 2 post quest reward.  Or dosen't the discount actually aply to gambeling?

afaik gambling prices are never affected by any quest states.

However, gambling usually results in "junk" which can be sold back to the shop, for more gambling money. The buy-back price cap are often relevant to this, so, for convenience, I usually just pop into a hell game and hit Gheed when I want to gamble (cap 35k).

I don't understand Ruvanal's comments on quest affected buy-back enough to know if a different approach would net a little more cash (in those non-cap cases).

I do know that Gheed's charm does indeed reduce the price of gambles (tested SP v1.10).

edit:

couldn't you use that jade dagger...

Yes, you could. I don't think poison is usually important enough to "sacrifice" the 1h weapon slot to, however. In some cases it might make sense though.

[Nightwind]

The numbers I gave you (coming from the AS, mind you, so might be inaccurate) mean that you can practically eliminate hell act 5 melee damage, as opposed to 50% PDF, what would only halve it.

those are act V Hell data? I thought that was normal ... seems I am a little too used to getting killed if i get hit.

[Caaroid]

I thought that was normal ... seems I am a little too used to getting killed if i get hit.

My thoughts exactly, when I nearly dismissed whyBish's suggestion that DR can be viable in hell. It always seemed to me that I get hit for hundreds of points of damage, but maybe this experience was disorted (eg. multiple hits).

One would actually have to make a build like this... and if I pass my exam in 8 hours I'll definitelly start the shopping spree ;)

[apandapion]

I'm not sure I see the point in all of this. Very few people die to the "normal monsters" which you describe. They normally go down to exceptional mosnters, be they act bosses or uniques. Both of my HC hell deaths have been to monsters of this type - one case EF ES FE sword rogues, another case a FE LE beetle (which a sorc blizzarded and i was too close to.). Given this, what is the value of being indestructable to mere normal monsters?

[rwbatema]

Aren't we missing something.

Venom Lord Damage: 100 - 180
Venom Lord mlvl: 93
Worldstone Keep Level 3 area level: 85

Doesn't this mean that we have to look up the Damage modifier in "monlvl.txt" for area level 85 to get this?
final damage = monstats.txt.damage(H) * monlvl.txt.L-dmg(H)/100

I don't have access to the files right now, so I can't say if this increases or decreases the damage.

[AtomicKitKat]

Hold yer horses! Venom Lords in Act 5 only appear in the Throne Of Destruction(as part of Ventar's crew)

[rwbatema]

Okay, you got me.
But the Throne of Destruction is still area level 85...

[LiquidDamage]

I'm not sure I see the point in all of this.  Very few people die to the "normal monsters" which you describe.  They normally go down to exceptional mosnters, be they act bosses or uniques.  Both of my HC hell deaths have been to monsters of this type - one case EF ES FE sword rogues, another case a FE LE beetle (which a sorc blizzarded and i was too close to.).  Given this, what is the value of being indestructable to mere normal monsters?

It will eliminate lag-induced death caused by normal monsters. All of my lag deaths have been due to normal monsters. My -DR characters can also afford to have nothing but full rejuvs in every slot, since they only take damage from bosses. This ensures that if I suddenly see my life orb drop to near-death levels, I won't accidentally drink a red potion instead, and die from the next hit.

Also, it is important to consider that the reduction also makes it more likely that you won't die in one hit to those crazy boss packs.

I personally would like to have max resistances, max pdr% (something I've never had, but I would sure like to ;) ), and as much -DR equipment as possible while playing a melee character, so that I was more likely to survive in all situations. I don't have that kind of equipment, however, so I settle for max resistances and about 60ish -DR.

[ShadowDragon]

How about comboing -dr with the barb warcry that reduces monster damage? :ph34r:
Ofcourse, if you're really rich you could make a perfect -dr build with lots of resist charms and have and very durable char B)
Would this work (maybe i should test this with cube mod), and if so what would the weaknesses be?

[AtomicKitKat]

Warcry Barbarian using BattleCry/Taunt, as high NR as feasible. Conviction mob with a fanatic boss-pack would probably do it(hence the battlecry, since taunt doesn't affect bosses)

[Telemont]

Crossposting between the Amazon Basin, I suggested the use of this Setup on a Necromancer.

Use a good level of Dim Vision to eliminate the vast majority of threat from enemy ranged elemental attacks. Toss in 1 point of Bone Armor, and wear the Marrowwalk Boots to get 500+ absorption in Synergy. Finally, you cast Decrepify on anything that gets close enough to you to be a threat, or that you might want to melee.

[Occhidiangela]

MONSTER DAMAGE:
Moon lord: 74-139
Thorned Hulk (actV): 81-145 / 68-136
Minion of Destruction: 83-135 / 83-145
Venom Lord (Ventar's minions): 108-189 (OUCH)

Do dissapoint me, but at the moment it seems like a powerful character.
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Here is a disappointment, one which has not yet been raised.

Frenzy

Two of your monsters in an MLVL of 80 will have Frenzy at slvl 20. Let's look at Moon Lords and Thorned Hulks with Frenzy in that region, Hell Difficulty.
(I am presuming mlvl/4 for skill base, please adjust if I have erred

EDIT: From AS, skills are a +7. +7 from what, I wonder? Even if we assume Frenzy at about level 10, you are still getting a healthy damage above and beyond -DR totals to chip away at your red ball in the magnitudes of a hundred to hundreds of points at a time. The rumor that Frenzy does not add extra damage by monsters has either been, or not been, checked out. ?? )

Damage: +185 percent
That means the damage per hit (see AR boost below) is 74-139(1 + 1.85) = 210.9-396.15) Double that for Champions. 421.8-792.3.

Taking 178 off of that doesn't look as shiny, does it?

What sort of life ball do you need to avoid being put into hit recovery? A few thousand? The assassin postulated later in the discussion starts to need % DR, from Fade perhaps, as well as -DR.

You are more likely to get hit as well.

Attack: +233 percent
Attack Speed: +7-42 percent
{Walk/Run Speed: +47-171 percent & Mana Cost: 3} tend to be irrelevant.

While it only makes the red ball shrink at a slower rate, -% damage reduction becomes a bit more attractive as an adjunct to this framework.

Deleting 160 or so points from 200 - 400 points of damage is certainly nice, before Curse or Decrep is accounted for.

Then there are "Extra Strong" and minions to consider.

My key concern with Frenzy is the rapid arrival of the blows.

The monster damage isn't the problem per se, Frenzy is the problem with this build.

Battle Cry is, IMO, the key skill to making this build very hard to damage. Or, maxed out Taunt for normal monsters and Battle Cry for Bosses.

Likewise, Bone Armor for the Necro.

I like Crystallion's idea about applying this framework to a Hurricane Druid, Cyclone Armor, and "stay away." The -DR nicely neutralizes the garden variety archers (who can't frenzy) who about in various Hell locales.

Countess Runs, anyone?

Occhi

[Zingydex]

Here is a disappointment, one which has not yet been raised.

Frenzy

...

I like Crystallion's idea about applying this framework to a Hurricane Druid, Cyclone Armor, and "stay away."  The -DR nicely neutralizes the garden variety archers (who can't frenzy) who about in various Hell locales.

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Forget Frenzy, try Charge. Any enemy with a Charge attack (vipers, reanimated horde) can potentially one-shot you, DR or no DR, if you don't have a life pool well into the four-digit range.

Also, "stay away", speaking from experience, is not nearly as effective as it sounds. Once you're actually close enough for Hurricane/Tornado to connect, there's nothing stopping monsters from closing that tiny remaining gap themselves and laying into you - and the ones that can stand up to the above offense tend to also be the ones that can overwhelm your DR score.

[Occhidiangela]

Forget Frenzy, try Charge. Any enemy with a Charge attack (vipers, reanimated horde) can potentially one-shot you, DR or no DR, if you don't have a life pool well into the four-digit range.

Also, "stay away", speaking from experience, is not nearly as effective as it sounds. Once you're actually close enough for Hurricane/Tornado to connect, there's nothing stopping monsters from closing that tiny remaining gap themselves and laying into you - and the ones that can stand up to the above offense tend to also be the ones that can overwhelm your DR score.

Frenzy is not to be sniffed at, due to the chance of going into hit recovery and then having a rain of blows fall on you in rapid succession.

In support of your point, Undead Chargers in Act V and the Snake Chargers are indeed potential life enders, and a place where "% DR" might do a great deal of good.

I am glad you pointed that out. B)

Occhi

[Baajikiil]

Frenzy is not to be sniffed at, due to the chance of going into hit recovery and then having a rain of blows fall on you in rapid succession.

In support of your point, Undead Chargers in Act V and the Snake Chargers are indeed potential life enders, and a place where "% DR" might do a great deal of good.

I am glad you pointed that out. B)

Occhi

The frenzy of minotaurs in act5 is not the same as the barb skill. It actually adds no damage %. It does add run/walk speed and attack speed though. The exact stats were listed somewhere on the AB at sometime by a code reader, not sure exactly where they are now though.

Now, the charge skill may be the same for all I know. It Definitely adds a large amount of physical damage.

In anycase, such a damage reduction character would really only have to worry about boss packs, and any boss pack has decent chance of having some form of increased damage, whether it's might/fanat or extra strong. Such packs (as well as doll pops and bad FE combos) can deal much higher damage than listed. Curse can amply this damage to the point of being one hit kills no matter how much you stack on the DR.

I've made several damage reduction HC chars of several classes, and it certainly works. You just need to keep your eyes open for the threats that do remain. Battlecry does have an amazing and useful effect. It helps less though when a monster has a % bonus to its damage; Battlecry will reduce the % bonus, but if a monster is already getting +200% damage from might, -50% damage is not that big a help.

This thread is really old.