[RANT] Angel's canceled?

[WarLocke]

Zap2It story

Ain't It Cool story

How come every time I get interested in a television series, it's almost immediately yanked? It happened to Babylon 5 (although it was in syndication for awhile afterwards) and Crusade, it happened to Reboot, it happened to Kindred: The Embraced, Firefly, Now and Again, Prey, The Sentinel, Wolf and Raven, and heck, even Tracker was getting interesting (you know, before it was called Codename: Eternity? Hurr).

The networks can good shows like FarScape and Quantum Leap (both shows I watched obsessively), just so they can churn out more "OMG Reality Survivor's Big Fat Obnoxious Bachellorette" crap. It's like they have some theory that if they make enough of this crap, it'll magically turn into gold-plated manure and everyone'll want some.

http://s92592496.onlinehome.us/Files/Macro...qyourtheory.jpg (not work safe)

I wish those dam sararimen would get some sanity injections. :(


EDIT: Ah, word filter was catching me.
(Gris, lemme know if I need to edit again)

Edit: WarLocke, your picture violated our "PG-13" policy - I changed it to a link and added a comment afterward. -Bolty

[DeeBye]

it happened to Reboot, it happened to Kindred: The Embraced

I loved those shows.

Well crap, my web host doesn't want to show images here. Dammit.

I'm getting a 403 Forbidden. Check your settings.

[Sir_Die_alot]

*starts handing around pitchforks and burning torches*

Lets go "talk" to some TV executives!

[Nystul]

That's a shame. In some ways I liked Angel better than Buffy, but ending Buffy probably took the wind out of the sails for the whole thing. The lifespan for a show of this type is a very fragile thing... you can only save the world from so many apocalypses before it gets labeled 'plot regurgitation'.

[LiquidDamage]

I don't know what is more depressing: the fact that it was cancelled just as it was picking up again (season 4 was so bad), or the fact that I am depressed that it was cancelled.

When Buffy ended, I was able to say "well, at least Angel will get more attention from Joss now that both Buffy and Firefly are over, and hey, Spike will be there". Now, what, am I supposed to care about Smallville? That's the only show that is remotely similar, and I'm sorry, but Smallville is like a Disneyland version of Buffy. It doesn't have the humor, it doesn't have the edge, all it has is the superhero-fights-bad-guys angle, and the super-cute-but-unappreciated-non-lead-female angle. Well, and Lex is cool.

Anyway, I am totally with you on good shows being cancelled.

I'm still pissed that they didn't give The Tick a serious chance. Patrick Warburton was born for that role, and while one of the episodes I saw really stank, the others were REALLY funny. The concept of a sitcom based on a group of superheroes' off hours was so novel. Regardless, they moved the show around so much I only got to see about 3 episodes, because I never knew when it was on.

[[wcip]Angel]

Some casual thoughts: (read: Mindless rant)

I am what non-Buffyers would call a "mental pasient" and Buffyers a "hardcore fan" of both shows. I still hold Becoming II as the finest moment in television history and Sarah Mclachlan's "Full of Grace" as a singular stroke of perfection. Due to my geographical position (away from the US), I had to bend the rules slightly in order to get the shows (Norwegian networks weren't airing Buffy and Angel till their respective shows had gone on 4-5 seasons in the US). Thus having to download the episodes, I've had the fortunate chance of watching and re-watching the episodes over and over. (I will get the DVD-packs when they're all out on play.com though, it's just that I'm waiting for that big "buy our big 7 seasons of Buffy, X episodes of Angel in 1 package and get an audience with Sarah, David and Joss!"-deluxe edition :))

I'm a huge fan of both shows.

That being said, I always felt that while "Buffy" was somehing surreal, something so incredibly wonderful it could never be categorized as a "television show", "Angel" on the other hand *could*. It was still a fantastic show, but it lacked certain elements to raise it to that divinity-status, such as the beauty of Sarah, the quirkyness that is Willow, the strong friend in Xander and the caring and loving father in Rupert.

There *are* relationships on "Angel", but during the 5 seasons they've never been portrayed as a family.. (and recently, I feel they've not even been portrayed as friends. The only cross-character interaction unrelated to work I can remember from season 5 was

Slight spoiler ahead:

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Wesley's easiness in killing his father to save Fred

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While ranting about the crappyness that is season 5, I should mention the character known as Wallpaper. He's very seldom in any shots, and the few times he's present with the rest of the cast he hardly says anything. He just stands there in the background or follow the group as they walk ominously through the offices looking for the big bad*

* as opposed to The Big Bad, which we all know to be our platinum-blonde railroad-spike-wielding lovebunny.

I really don't want to go on criticising season 5, because my doing so shows an askew; or cock-eyed if you will (Yes I still enjoy referring to old episodes of Buffy ;)) point of view. In spite of their flaws; the script which isn't all that good (*cough*Cordelia*cough*), the Wallpaper-characters who have no place in the show (When was the last time someone sang to Lorne anyway?) and the flawed continuity (as in this week's "so old a vampire he's taken animal-like form" (the one on the sub-marine), even though Master Rose was the oldest living vampire, and he was still humanesque), Angel is still a very good show, and is still 10 times better than the average crap you see on television.

It never had the chance of beating "Buffy", but that was already given at the start, as "Angel"'s premise was to be a televion series; but that doesn't mean the show isn't pretty damn cool!

Hearing of its cancellation does make me sad. I don't see how they'll be able to wrap up the whole Buffyverse in just a few episodes. Since Angel left The Show after season 3 I always felt that to be justified as long as the two star-crossed soulmates would end up together again.

With the Shanshu-prophecy about Angel becoming human again, I always felt this to be a likely posibility for the series' end. What I *don't* want, is Buffy coming back from Europe in the very last episode going all "Ooo, you're human again, let's get married!" I know we've seen clear signs in the later seasons of "Buffy" that they're still in love (Joyce's funeral and the series' finale), but they've been apart for so long, I feel they should at least have 1 season to bring it all together. In addition to the Buffy/Angel-main plot, I'd like to see what happens to *everybody*. Everybody meaning:

* Faith and Principal Goatee
* Spike and Drusilla
* Spike/Drusilla/someone; anyone please, killing off Harmony
* The entire Buffy-cast of Xander, Willow, Giles and to a lesser degree Dawn.
* Amy the non-rat (It's possible this one was killed, but I always felt it wasn't clear when she came back in season 7)
* The New and Improved Slayers. (Sidenote: Great continuity a few weeks back showing another slayer (albeit insane) on "Angel". It's nice to know the writers remember that "Buffy" and "Angel" are set in the same universe. Sidenote#2: "Hooray for hinting at The Inititiative in this week's episode.)
* Ethan Rayne
* Oz
* The Wesley-Fred-Gunn-love triangle

There is no way they would be able to include the conclusion of all these characters in the remaining episodes. They still have a story arc for season 5 to figure out. (However, I'd be quite impressed if it turned out to be "Angel and his crew are the bad guys" as was the premise of Andrew's return. It's a perspective thing that hasn't been done before, and done right; I would've loved to have seen it.)

I'll miss the show, and I'll miss it even more if they fail to conlude the Buffyverse with a befitting and worthy ending. I think the ending of "Buffy" was quite well done. We've done the slow-motion death scenes before and it was nice to see our former ex-demon illustrated as one of the 'victims of war' they so relentlessly hinted at in the entire seventh season. The destruction of the town where the series had shown its strength and weaknesses and where oh-so-many apocalypses had been thwarted by our Scooby Core, was poetic.

*rant over*
(For now)

[--Pete]

Hi,

The basic problem with both Buffy and Angel is that there wasn't a well developed and well limited universe worked out *from the start* to contain them. So, we start out with a world where vampires are real, then we add demons, werewolves, arts arcane both white and black, advanced technology, soulless vampires falling in love, etc. bloody (to quote Spike) etc. Pretty soon that particular stew has so many ingredients in it, it tastes as if it's been through the horse.

That said, I too am sad that these two shows are (or soon will be) over. From a medium that defines mediocre, they were well above the average.

--Pete

[Vash]

Man, speaking of cancelled shows...does anyone remember M.A.N.T.I.S.? It was the one about the crippled doctor who puts on a special suit and becomes teh ub3r 1337...

[Sir_Die_alot]

I remember that show. It started ok but seemed to suffer a lack of creativity later on. Like the writers just ran out of stories. I also liked Brisco County Jr. but that had the same story problem.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Angel? That still on? Considering I dropped interest in the show before the first season finished, I cannot cry for it.

One show I do miss is Space: Above and Beyond. McQueen pranging Chiggy von Richtofen's swanky crate was the finest moment of sci-fi spaceborne fighter combat on TV.

[Mithrandir]

I find "My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance" to be mildly amusing. But mostly because I am laughing my ass off at that conniving b*tch over what she's willing to put her family through for a little bit of dough. I mean, it already looked like their family was pretty damn well-off, does she really need it that bad?

Anyhoo...

I never got into the whole Buffy thing. I never really knew about it until quite late into the show (reruns on FX and early afternoon WB) and the episodes bouncing between demons running a fast food joint to Willow's lesbian lover gets killed by some random nerd with a jetpack. Way too surreal for me and impossible to pick up on any sort of storyline. I still watch it on the days that I have nothing better to do than sleep away afternoons in my dorm room, but I always leave with a slight feeling of "WTF?" :huh:

Babylon 5, on the other hand, was a fantastic show. One of the few TV shows out there that my father was more avid about watching than me.

My TV watching lately has basically been restricted to Simpsons/Family Guy, Sportscenter while waking up, and MTV U if they have a good music lineup going.

[WarLocke]

I loved those shows.

Those two were awesome. Kindred, in particular, floored me because here was something drawn straight out of Vampire: The Masquerade (Toreadors and Brujahs, the whole bit) which not only didn't suck, it distinctly rocked.

Reboot was just plain awesome, especially the last season with Enzo and Andraia making their way through games, and Bob/Glitch exiled to the Web. Awesome, awesome show.

I'm still pissed that they didn't give The Tick a serious chance.

There's another one I forgot. I only saw one episode (I'm assuming you mean the live-action show?), but it was memorable. It looked like it had a lot of potential...

The basic problem with both Buffy and Angel is that there wasn't a well developed and well limited universe worked out *from the start* to contain them.

I'll agree with this. Buffy suffered a lot in the first season from this (uh, the Mantis teacher, coyote spirits, the swim team turning into monsters, etc), but it seemed obvious (to me, anyway) that at that point there was no "defining vision" for the show's future - it was more episodic like most shows were at the time.

Even with that said, it's impressive what Whedon managed to accomplish, considering the show was based on a musical starring Rutger Hauer (don't get me wrong, I think he's a pretty cool actor, but he has the worst tendency to get cast in very bad movies). The actual Buffy movie was... pretty bad.

One show I do miss is Space: Above and Beyond.

... And yet another I had forgotten about. :( This one had real potential, and I thought it awesome that it truely felt like a military show (the writers not scared of killing off characters and all). I still get chills when I think of the "uber-chig" fighter in the last episode...

I never really knew about it until quite late into the show

Looking back on it, I think the best place to end Buffy would have been at the end of the fifth season, after the Glory storyline. That last episode would have been a fitting (if bittersweet) end for Buffy. The sixth season really did seem surreal, and the only part of it I really like was the stuff with Willow at the end (and that part I really, really liked). FX has only shown a few of the season 7 episodes, so I don't know how that will turn out, but I gather that the last episode went off with a big bang?

Babylon 5, on the other hand, was a fantastic show.

Best sci-fi ever. PPGs, represent!

Family Guy

Oh man, how could I forget? But I think some network picked it up again, so I guess this doesn't count. Stewie > *.

[Rhydderch Hael]

...  I still get chills when I think of the "uber-chig" fighter in the last episode...

The advanced Chig fighter was not in the last episode. Actually, there were two advanced variants on the alien fighters: the red-painted ones that were capable of crossing in close proximity to singularities, and the advanced-powered stealth model that was given to the Chigs' best ace, "Chiggy von Richtofen" as he was so-named by the humans. The CvR story arc followed a few episodes as the Wildcards and the rest of the fleet tried to handle this new threat. Heavier patrols, ambuscades, and an experimental weapon of mass destruction all failed to nail the guy— it took one highly pissed-off squadron commander on a blood vendetta to hunt Chiggy down and duel him to the death.

The last episode was the season closer: on the verge of invading Chig home territory, they sued for peace, agreed to a prisoner release, then pulled off a sneak attack by trying to kill the prisoners and the extraction force (the 58th Wildcards), a fight that ended in several notable casualties.

[WarLocke]

The advanced Chig fighter was not in the last episode.

Well crap, shows you what I know. That was the last episode I remember seeing, anyway. Dangit, I need to invest in a DVD player and pick up all these full-season DVD sets since it's apparent;y the only way to enjoy good shows anymore. :angry:

Also, I thought McQueen was crippled or something and couldn't fly anymore?

[Rhydderch Hael]

...Also, I thought McQueen was crippled or something and couldn't fly anymore?

McQueen was indeed unable to fly due to damage to his middle ear and the organ responsible for maintaining equilibrium. Without the artificial stimulator which replaced it, he would have no sense of balance. Problem was, the device was a metallic object embedded in soft tissue, and high-G maneuvering in flight could dislodge it and cause death as it rattled around in his skull. Hence, McQueen was grounded for life...

...that is, until the surgeons removed the device in a desperate attempt to bring McQueen back to flight status in order to combat Chiggy. Nonetheless, the operation left him struggling to maintain his balance, and they nicked the idea... until that one female pilot of the 58th got killed by Chiggy, and McQueen defied orders to avenge her death in a fury of blood and bullets.

[Sir_Die_alot]

Oh man I forgot all about Above and Beyond. Hopefully I can forget again it was so good and canseled so unresolved. Damn you Fox!

*gets very very angry about that show being canseled again*

[Drasca]

There's a DVD set made out of reviewer's tapes (uncut version sent to TV stations). Except its expensive. 12 DVD's plus artwork and box but.. well see for yourself:

http://web-worthy.com/saab/merch-video.html

1) Various media by fans for fans

http://web-worthy.com/saab/spacenet/msgboa..._msgnum=1000108

2) info on the DVD specifics

[DeeBye]

Those two were awesome.  Kindred, in particular, floored me because here was something drawn straight out of Vampire: The Masquerade (Toreadors and Brujahs, the whole bit) which not only didn't suck, it distinctly rocked.

It was also a very well-written, well-acted, and well-produced show. The atmosphere was perfect. It was dark, gothic, and intense. I was seriously bummed out when it was cancelled. TV has always been sorely lacking in dramatic vampire shows.

(Nosferatu 4 life!)

Reboot was just plain awesome, especially the last season with Enzo and Andraia making their way through games, and Bob/Glitch exiled to the Web.

I never really liked the later episodes. It got all dark 'n serious. The early episodes were abound with hilarity.

[WarLocke]

The atmosphere was perfect.  It was dark, gothic, and intense.

Agreed. It was just basically perfect. I'm going to commit blasphemy in my own thread, but Kindred was easily the best vampire show I've ever seen (easily better than Buffy or Angel or Forever Knight or...).

There were only something like 6 episodes filmed. My dad and I were bummed out when we found out; we had watched every single one as soon as it aired. :(

I never really liked the later episodes. It got all dark 'n serious. The early episodes were abound with hilarity.

I guess I just prefer shows with story arcs to the episodic formula. The first couple seasons were funny, but alot of the humor was off-the-wall. Also, the production values skyrocketed from the first season to the last (third?); the characters look much better the farther in you go. I guess that could have influenced me.

But really I was just digging the direction the show was going in. With Dot and Mouse fighting Megabyte in a broken-down, apocalyptic Mainframe, Enzo ('scuze me... "Matrix") coming across hints of the uber-virus who had corrupted the Guardians and wanted the location of Mainframe, heck even the "messiah Bob" bit with Glitch at the end was campy as all hell, but awesome at the same time.

I want me some Reboot now. :(

[Count Duckula]

I want me some Reboot now.  :(

If you have the cash, you can purchase it.