who wants hellfire?

[WeiZ]

hi
i am a new guy here
i came from china
i have hellfire cd iso and i would like to share
if some one wants it just tell me where and how to upload

[--Pete]

. . . with a bunch of scum sucking thieves. We do not tolerate software piracy and we do not tolerate those who do. Perhaps you'd better leave before being throw out.

--Pete

[WeiZ]

i am sorry but i think you have misunderstood me.
hellfire cd cannot be found easy in store these days.
but many diablo fans never had a chance to try it.
i just want to help
i am collector of Blizzard games
all of my cds are not piratic
i copy my cds into my harddisk as iso and use them
if what i did is not welcome here
i'll leave

[--Pete]

Hi,

We are quite aware that Hellfire is no longer being published and quite difficult to find. A number of Lurkers have searched for it for considerable periods and bought copies from e-Bay and other online sites. But, until such time as either the copyright expiries or Sierra puts Hellfire in the public domain, what you are suggesting *is* illegal.

This is a site devoted to honest play. I suspect that people who are honest in playing a game will be even more so in real life. So, no, your offer is not welcome here. However, you are, if you are willing to accept the norms here both as to play and as to piracy.

--Pete

PS Sorry if I've stepped on any Mod's toes.

[LemmingofGlory]

Anything I'd say would be an echo.

[WeiZ]

I am sorry I did not know that the copyright of Hellfire does not expiry.
I promise I will accept the norms.
Please forgive my mistake.
Thanks for teaching me this.

[malach_cha_movis]

Hi WeiZ,

WELCOME! I appreciated the spirit of the offer, even though I am unable to accept the offer itself. I believe that other lurkers feel the same way.

I am merely a “lurker” and do not often actually participate in the discussions, but I felt it necessary for me to comment in this situation.

Lemming of Glory, the forum moderator, stated that the second response elucidated the policies of the forum and website clearly. However, the second response could have been more polite and friendlier.

Many websites including Lurkers Lounge have strict policies as to content and behavior. The ones for content on this site are fair and reasonable. They include mainly; discussions limited to Diablo and Diablo II, a request for proper grammar and spelling (for the sake of clarity), condemnation of software piracy, and support for’ legitimate play’. (Though what constitutes ‘legitimate play’ is sometimes subject to debate.) Unfortunately, you ran afoul with one of these conditions on your first post.

This forum and this website also require certain minimum standards of civil behavior. These standards do not include rudeness, disrespect, insults, or self righteous, self-serving comments in the forum posts.

Therefore, I would like to apologize for the contents and tone of the first response that you received, on behalf of myself and likeminded lurkers. It was uncalled for and out of line.

I hope that particular message does not discourage you from continuing to visit and participate on this website. Sometimes we are too quick to condemn and not quick enough to correct. On the whole though, you will find the participants here to be friendly, helpful, intelligent, interesting and enthusiastic. As a fan and collector of Blizzard games, this should be one of your primary websites for the Diablo series.

Warren

Excellence is not a skill, it's a habit! Aristotle

[DeeBye]

Therefore, I would like to apologize for the contents and tone of the first response that you received, on behalf of myself and likeminded lurkers.  It was uncalled for and out of line.

Uh oh!

[ismael.]

I think the above responses are adequate in case you're from the US or some other rather more civilized nation where international credit cards are standard and buying through ebay is not much of a problem. However, the concept of "being legal" leads to dead ends as soon as you don't comply with any of the above criteria. Take my country for example (Slovakia in my particular case) where getting original Hellfire is practically impossible due to no vendor offering it (save a once-in-a-lifetime secondhand opportunity) unless youre among the very small population percentage with an international credit card (you have to meet certain not-anyone-is-capable-of-complying-with criteria to get one of those here, ie. to be a well-above average earner). What this means is that if you want to ever see Hellfire in real life and real time here, there is (for most of us) no other way then to get a copy. Shall I point out to this as another example of Americans being as always as self-centered as it gets, or am I getting already too political? I may just add that the original Diablo is on sale here and still available in numbers, so logically, I would consider illegal anyone in my country playing D from a copy, but for all practical purposes, not Hellfire.

Other than that, I wouldn't pay Sierra a dime for Hellfire (well, perhaps two for the crypt interior and liches), but thats another matter already.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I appreciated the spirit of the offer, even though I am unable to accept the offer itself. I believe that other lurkers feel the same way.

Only thieves or idiots.

I am merely a “lurker” and do not often actually participate in the discussions

Good, that helps keep the quality of this place a tad higher. The input of anyone willing to even consider pirated software is not what we need here.

Unfortunately, you ran afoul with one of these conditions on your first post.

Nothing "unfortunate" about it. The rules were spelled out, anyone who wants to post here is responsible for them. And anyone posting on the Internet should have the common sense to lurk a site for a while before posting to it.

This forum and this website also require certain minimum standards of civil behavior. These standards do not include rudeness, disrespect, insults, or self righteous, self-serving comments in the forum posts.

Long unwritten, but equally required is a certain degree of intelligence. Enough to know that (1) you don't apologize for someone else and (2) you don't support thieves.

Sometimes we are too quick to condemn and not quick enough to correct.

Naw, I read your whole post before developing a very low opinion of you.

--Pete

[--Pete]

Hi,

I see. So you are saying that if you are not American you don't need to be honest? I think you've just insulted all the non American posters to the Lounge. Good for you.

--Pete

[Selby]

Americans are selfish and self-centered because we don't think that pirating software is right or justified? That boggles the mind...

[DeeBye]

Shall I point out to this as another example of Americans being as always as self-centered as it gets, or am I getting already too political?

No, I'd say that the problem lies in your #$%&ty software vendors for not stocking Hellfire. Blaming Americans for not supplying you with a videogame is retarded.

If you can't find a copy through legitimate means, then that's too damned bad. Don't play it. No one's ENTITLED to everything they want. That's why I don't have a hoverbike (yet).

[malach_cha_movis]

Hi Selby and DeeBye,

In case I did not make myself clear in my earlier post, I completely oppose the use of illegitimately obtained software. I do not wish to defend the position of Saladin of Slovakia. I do not agree with him that is acceptable, in some circumstances, to use and/or encourage others to use Hellfire copies, but I can understand his point of view.

Both of you make valid points in your posts. However, do you really think the issue is as black and white as you would like to paint it? Do you really see no difference in using a copy of Diablo, which is readily available, and using a copy of Hellfire, which is virtually impossible to obtain in a legitimate manner?

IN my younger days, I too, like Plato, believed in moral absolutes; something was either right or wrong. I have found though, as I have gotten older, (not yet ancient) that issues are never as clear-cut as we would wish them to be.

BTW: How come almost every one criticized the initial poster for offering illegitimate software, when he was only trying to be helpful and friendly (even though he was wrong to do so), but no one else, including the moderator, has commented or complained about the tone of the initial response? Have we become so coarse or so righteous, that we just accept such uncivilized behavior? I thought that this website was attempting to set higher standards for polite discourse.

Warren

Malach cha Movis

Excellence is not a skill, it's a habit! "Aristotle"

[Nystul]

BTW: How come almost every one criticized the initial poster for offering illegitimate software, when he was only trying to be helpful and friendly (even though he was wrong to do so), but no one else, including the moderator, has commented or complained about the tone of the initial response?

Pete's tone towards posts he considers inappropriate, stupid, or otherwise extremely poor is pretty constant. There would be little use in asking him to change his posting style, and I wouldn't suggest trying to apologize on his behalf! When someone gets flamed liked that, the way that they react says a lot. WeiZ was able to take it in stride, clarify his post, and reach an understanding within two posts. That tells me more about him than his original post does, and should he choose to post here on other subjects (like say, Diablo/Hellfire strategy!) he will carry a positive impression into those posts as a result of that exchange.

Anyways, since WeiZ was able to take the flame in stride and move on, I'd suggest that you do too :) If Lemming or the other mods/admins have a problem with Pete's post, I'm sure they will discuss it with him. But sometimes, it is nice to have someone who tells it like it is when they see a bad post.

[DeeBye]

BTW:  How come almost every one criticized the initial poster for offering illegitimate software, when he was only trying to be helpful and friendly  (even though he was wrong to do so), but no one else, including the moderator, has commented or complained about the tone of the initial response?  Have we become so coarse or so righteous, that we just accept such uncivilized behavior?  I thought that this website was attempting to set higher standards for polite discourse.

Let me paraphrase this thread.

"Hi, I have an illegal copy of this program I want to share with you."

"Take off, you stupid oaf. We don't do that here."

"Okay. Just thought I'd offer."

"Hey! Don't be so mean to that guy. He was being nice by offering to share his illegal copy of Hellfire."

This thread can only end in tragedy and heartache. I'd advise you to stop posting in it.

[ismael.]

My final word - the "self-centered" reference naturally does not apply to "stupid Americans not importing Hellfire to some countries" as someone interpreted it (completely off-mark), but rather to obviously innate inability of some posters to see beyond their usual horizons, as in practical life, as in this example, things may be and often are beyond applying some fixed rules (including the rules of "legality") indiscriminately to various - and sometimes radically different - environments. The very narrow-minded and limited "holier than thou" attitude of some posters here is what deeply disturbs me.

[ismael.]

And Pete - read more carefully and actually try to understand other's arguments before you quickly insult them. Might happen to you as well some day.

[Selby]

Basically what you are saying is that we are stupid Americans because we don't believe in helping others commit piracy. Laws are put into existence for a reason, not to be broken (even if we don't agree with every single one of them). It's sad that Hellfire is hard to obtain pretty much globally now, but to get mad when "we" won't help others steal it is childish.

If you want sympathy for the pirate software cause, this forum isn't the place for it.

[LemmingofGlory]

BTW: How come almost every one criticized the initial poster for offering illegitimate software, when he was only trying to be helpful and friendly (even though he was wrong to do so), but no one else, including the moderator, has commented or complained about the tone of the initial response?

The original post generated complaints because the poster was offering illegal software. It doesn't matter how nice he was.

Pete's post is perfectly acceptable. Condescention may be insulting, but it doesn't violate any forum rules. If I were to moderate Pete for his condescending tone, I'd need to moderate your post, too. Observe as you prove my point for me.

Have we become so coarse or so righteous, that we just accept such uncivilized behavior? I thought that this website was attempting to set higher standards for polite discourse.

You've just invoked:

* ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION
"Only the most degenerate, morally depraved, cretinous imbecile could fail to see the truth of my argument."

Usually, however, this is somewhat more subtle:  "It would be unwise to exclude the possibility that my surmise is correct."

"If one has to think about it, one is already without honor."... Spengler

To "dare" someone to do something is to challenge him to perform an action as proof of his courage. This is the behavior of a person with the aspirations of a tyrant but without the power to compel. Since he does not have that power, he attempts to swindle his prospective victim into the acceptance of his goals and the use of his judgements as the standard for the victim's actions. He tricks the victim into performing the action by implicitly impugning his character.

---From "The Handbook of Logical Fallacies." Google it!

If you have a problem with condescention, why did you do it?

[o: *LEMMING* :o]