Hell Level. Oh my.

[Heat Miser]

I started Hell Level the other day (1.10) with my level 73 Sorceress.

After a dozen deaths (mostly Quill Rat Bosses), I finally beat the Den of Evil.

It is golly-gosh-darn tough. It seems like I'll never be able to hold on to the Bazillion experience points I need to advance to level 74.

Should I just play the game with the hope of Set Items, Gold, and Runes ?

What do y'all out there do ?? Keep visting the Throne of Destruction in Nightmare like 20 times ?

Thanks for the info and feedback......... -= Heat Miser =-

[ShadowHM]

What do y'all out there do ??  =-

I suspect that this will be no consolation to you at all, but I have felt exactly the same way.

I have four Ladder characters who have gotten to Hell mode in v1.10. And each one suffered a horrible shock when entering Hell. You would think I would have learned from experience, but it has not been so.

They are vastly different characters with differing styles as well as skill sets. And each one has had to adapt play style considerably in Hell mode, just to survive, let alone thrive. They all figured it out eventually.

And I am sure you will too. B)

[Wyrm]

Play with a friend. Hopefully one that uses a different element for attacking. Both of you go for one maxed synergized skill. That's what I do with my friend. Apart, neither of us gets very far in hell. Together, it took us less time to kill through hell than it did through normal.

Just for the record, he was using a Wind Druid and I used a Lit traps assassin. Since then I've made a skelmancer and basically did all of normal, nightmare and hell solo, and now do baal runs. This is all hc ladder too, btw.

[bigeyedbug]

What do y'all out there do ??   Keep visting the Throne of Destruction in Nightmare like 20 times ?

Exactly.

IIRC, my BF Assassin got pretty decent experience there until level 78--those extra five levels might make a huge difference. You also have the chance to get some of those colorful items you're talking about. Kinda repetitve, but probably the funnest place in the game to do multiple runs with ranged characters IMO. If the WSK isn't easy enough for you, try some of the other areas in Act V.

Regardless of whether you're at level 73 or 83, you're going to have to make a mental adjustment to Hell. It's not going to feel fast or easy. But like ShadowHM said, you'll get used to it if you don't give up.

And then there's Act II--which feels almost as much harder than Act I, as that did from Nightmare. Well, just don't think about that yet. :ph34r:

[eppie]

I started  Hell Level  the other day (1.10) with my level 73 Sorceress.

After a dozen deaths (mostly Quill Rat Bosses), I finally beat the Den of Evil.

It is golly-gosh-darn tough.  It seems like I'll never be able to hold on to the Bazillion experience points I need to advance to level 74.

Should I just play the game with the hope of Set Items, Gold, and Runes ?

What do y'all out there do ??  Keep visting the Throne of Destruction in Nightmare like 20 times ?

Thanks for the info and feedback.........  -= Heat Miser =-

I have (single player1.10) two hell characters at the moment (and actually these are the only two I have ever had) A barb (berserk) and an amazon (freezing arrow). The difference in difficulty between act5 NM and act 1 hell, is indeed very big.
I have been doing some experience runs in NM to gain a few levels (my barb started at 65 in hell. But at the moment there is no problem anymore (both are in act 4 and 5 now both level 80).
And I consider myself not at all a very good player. Items are important though. I use only things I find in that game and don't pass on items from other characters (except for the grandfather my amazon found (which is not even so much better than nord tenderizer my barb was using before).

As said before: sometimes levelling up one or two levels makes a difference. (e.g. my amazon had difficulties using freezing arrow, after a few point in strafe everything went oke).
Items are important, and a good mercenary can help a lot, but you have to have enough "skills" yourself to keep him alive. (if you have to resurrect it every three minutes it's not working of course). And don' t forget runewords and crafting, if you don't find uniques you like "make" them yourself, crafted items are often very good.
As last I can say.....go very slow in act1 hell, take the monsters out one at a time....as soon as you get surrounded, forget it.

[arrunique]

It is golly-gosh-darn tough.

Yes that it is. You don't say what your build is but sorcs have an especially tough time in hell because 1/4 of everything is immune to your primary attack.

If you don't have one go back to nightmare and grab a holy feeze merc and level him up. Give him the heaviest armor and pokin stick he can use as he is a sorc's only defense. Get used to feeding him potions, teleporting him out of danger and frequently going back to town to res him.

Quill rats are especially difficult because their missiles are nearly invisible. All missle attacks in hell are much more dangerous for a sorc because they attack more frequently and they pack on the elemental damage. If your resists suck and your life is low you will die a lot. My sorcs(and my other chars really) tend to put most of their points in vitality.

At least your are a sorc, can you imagine how bad melee chars have it?

[ceolstan]

I know what you mean. I routinely play in AB games with two other companions. I doubt that any one of us would have been able to make it past Act 1 Hell without our combined skills. The necro has maxed Dim Vision, skellies, and skellie mastery. The sorc has maxed firewall (the skellies help to create a front on which to put the firewall), a fair degree of frozen orb, and lots of static. The barbarian can deal good physical damage. None of us is wearing uber gear. Most of it is shopped. The barbarian is nude (circlet, sash, jewelry). Hell has been a battle each step. After 1.5 hours of play, we're exhausted. We're at level 80-81 and in Act 3.

My previous 1.09 guardians stayed in NM until about lvl 70 and finished Hell by about lvl 76, so you can see how much longer 1.1 is taking us.

We spent quite a bit of time doing NM Baal runs until we hit lvl 74. We needed to build up resists, as this is hard core. We looked for grand charms for cubing in NM Flayer and Great Marsh, and for small charms in the Crystalline Passage. We spent quite a bit of time cubing charms so as to get better resists. Our plus-skills charms have so far eluded us.

Playing in groups helped us gain experience more quickly than we'd have otherwise been able to do. Still, in preparation for Hell, we ended up spending about 1.5-2 hours per night for about a week.

I don't know if any class is easily able to solo Hell. We've found the necro to be invaluable. We just hope that we can make it past the gloams :ph34r:

--ceolstan

[Heat Miser]

Hey- thanks to everyone for their insight. i'm glad i wasn't the only one who had to utter some discouraging words upon starting Hell level.

my Sorc is balanced across the board with elemental attacks, so i can always pull something out of the hat, and she's quite swift afoot, so i can run like Forrest. i have some unique items that empower Lightning skills up a few levels as well.

everything i wear and fight with is either Unique or Crafted. same thing for my helper from Act 2. he wears a Set Piece of Chaos Armor rated at 867, and his Def is nearly 2,000. he does okay until surrounded....

i have done some NM runs since starting Hell level, mostly for gold. not like i lose a whole lot of map from the Bloor Moor....... thanks again to everybody :)

-= Heat Miser =-

[nobbie]

I started  Hell Level  the other day (1.10) with my level 73 Sorceress.

After a dozen deaths (mostly Quill Rat Bosses), I finally beat the Den of Evil.

It is golly-gosh-darn tough.  It seems like I'll never be able to hold on to the Bazillion experience points I need to advance to level 74.

Should I just play the game with the hope of Set Items, Gold, and Runes ?

What do y'all out there do ??  Keep visting the Throne of Destruction in Nightmare like 20 times ?

Thanks for the info and feedback.........  -= Heat Miser =-

I'm currently writing my "1.10 RB-MOD" ("1.10 Rebalanced" Mod) for Diablo II LOD (Single Player, Open B.net and LAN). Stay tuned :)

[ogot]

At least you guys have reached Hell Level... I have a level 46 sorc, 43, barb, 37, necro, and 38 assassin... (those are only the ones who have reached nightmare... I've got lots of 25 below characters at home... :unsure:)

Once I reach Act 2 in Nightmare, I either get bored of getting killed by Duriel, or get bored of repeating Diablo and Baal in Normal level...



So... Is it possible for a Hardcore character (any) to finish the whole game (including Hell level) alone? As in, never, NEVER, using multiplayer?

[FenrisWulf]

So... Is it possible for a Hardcore character (any) to finish the whole game (including Hell level) alone? As in, never, NEVER, using multiplayer?

Of course it is. Hell may be difficult, but with sufficient application of skill, items, and a good build, pretty much anything is possible, least of all finishing the game.

[ogot]

Oh... My level 47 sorc (level 39 then...) got beat up by Duriel in Nightmare... She had 7 levels in Frozen Orb, 5 levels in Thunder Storm, and no Fire Skills except Warmth... Duriel was Immune to Cold, and my Thunder Storm did almost no damage... I gave up, killed Baal twice in Normal level, and he promptly dropped a rare Jo Staff with +3 to Fire Wall, +2 to Blizzard, and +1 to Sorceress Skill Levels... So I went back to Duriel, let my barb merc get walloped while I cast and recast Fire Wall, make a portal, resurrect my merc, go back in... Died a couple of times... Lost about 500k dying and resurrecting my merc... Took me about half an hour to finally beat him...

Then my sorc went to Act 3, getting killed by a single blizzard of one of those Cantor guys.... So, I killed Diablo and Baal so many times, getting sets and uniques and maxing out my gold... Reached level 47, went back to Travincal, and got killed by a single blizzard...

Sheesh.... So I started a barb, got bored when I killed Andariel, then an Assassin, kept on dying to Duriel too, then currently, a necro, and having fun with a level 7 revive in Act 1 Stony Field...


As "interesting" as my D2 life may be to me, it may not be to you, so I'm sorry if you wasted your time reading this... I just have nothing else to do right now, coz my sister's level 23 sorc is getting killed by Flayers... *snicker*

Oh well, my turn's coming up in a few minutes...

And FenrisWulf, I have a level 23 Druid, I put 10 levels in Lycanthropy, 10 levels in Werewolf, 1 level in Feral Rage, and 4 levels in Rabies... My weapon is a magical long sword which does 48 poison over 6 seconds... Right beside my waypoint to Upper Kurast is a Thrasher boss pack... So every time I try to fight them, I get pummeled... What should I do? (single player only... a few wep changes? level ups? any ideas?)

Edit: I forgot about Radament's Book of Skill... the rabies is level 4, not level 3... :D

[FenrisWulf]

@ogot:
Heh, sorry that my previous reply was completely unhelpful and a bit arrogant; I was tired, and your question struck me as weird. However, I can certainly understand the perspective, as the game can get very difficult in an untwinked, non-cookie-cutter situation.

Looking at the design of your Werewolf...are you going for a Rabies build? One rather problematic feature of Rabid Wolves is that they can't really blossom without a significant point investment, meaning full points in Poison Creeper and Rabies. Even then, you'd want a lot of +skills to be really effective. Thus, early on, it would perhaps be better to rely on simple physical damage to get the job done: stash away the Magical Long Sword for now, and focus on finding (preferably) a Maul or Great Maul with enhanced damage and possibly IAS (Hratli should keep these in stock, I believe; else, gamble Mauls from Alkor). Use Feral Rage as your main attack, giving you both a damage increase and a bit of Life Leech.

What sort of mercenary are you using? At this point, I would probably recommend a Defiance Merc with fairly high def armor, as they're the most self-sufficient; if you're unable to take the damage monsters are dealing out, then it's good to have another tank by your side. I also generally have a point in Dire Wolves, a point in Carrion Vine, and a bunch of point in Oak Sage by now. If you can, you may want to at least make a trivial investment in the middle branch of the Summoning Tree, as they have a decent amount of life automatically and thus can help with tanking; also, in the end, you'll almost definitely want to pick a Spirit and max it out. Most Wolves go for Oak Sage; Heart of Wolverine is also a decent option for the more offensive-minded Wolf.

More levels always help, of course, but distribute your skill points carefully. I would hold off on investing any more points into Werewolf and Lycanthropy at the moment; they're high enough to last you for a little while. Instead, as I said above, see what you can do about fleshing out your Summoning Tree with the extra points you get, mainly in terms of picking a Spirit. Getting a Dire Wolf (eventually a Grizzly) and Carrion Vine is a matter of personal preference, but I highly recommend it.

Also look for items that give +Life, and make sure your Vitality stat gets some lovin'. With such a heavy investment in Lycanthropy, you should be able to tank most Act 3 monsters pretty well, so I'm not sure I can explain why these Thrashers are giving you so much trouble. Being able to take their hits, and also having more targets to spread the hits over (melee Mercenary, Dire Wolf) should help a lot.

Let me know if any of this works out, or if you need any more help. Apologies to everyone else for hijacking this thread. :)

[ogot]

Thanks FenrisWulf! :D and I was using a Cold Act 3 merc... :unsure:

[Raziel]

My rule of thumb is if you can't one-hit or two-hit things in Act 5 Nightmare, you are going to have massive issues in Hell difficulty.

The increase in monster life is THAT huge.

[Atropos]

Hell Level is quite hard....you can say that again,my level 88 amazon died easily when visited the Throne of Destruction.The lightning damage of some monsters is extremely strong......
P.S. I come from China,and I am weak in English.So there may have some mistakes in my passage....

[Obi2Kenobi]

Hell Level is quite hard....you can say that again,my level 88 amazon died easily when visited the Throne of Destruction.The lightning damage of some monsters is extremely strong......

Probably Gloams. Those things hurt.

P.S. I come from China,and I am weak in English.So there may have some mistakes in my passage....

It's really not that bad. Really. :)

[Billybgame]

It is golly-gosh-darn tough.


Forgive me if someone pointed out this basic aspect of living through Hell. RUN! Well, not always. But, if your're stupid merc does his charge, or you do your usual running, and see a few monsters.........RUN! Backwards, of course. Always try to pick them off a little at a time. If you get surrounded, and in Hell so many times it's by boss packs, you are in a world of hurt.

Basically, it's two steps forward, one step back. It's slow going, but livable.

I speak from experience, for sure. I have a Zealot Pally, with all the right uber gear(Baranar's, Guardian Angel, HoZ, etc), who was in Act 3 Hell, when 1.10 arrived. Upper 70's in level. This guy is a tough hombre. And, he regularly died 10-20 times in a playing session. Leveling up is no easy feat when you're losing all your experience points. He finally did it, but boy was it work. If you think Act 1 is hard, I don't even want to tell you about Act 5.

On that note, I'd like to know the tactics Hardcore players use in Hell act 5. I used to play Hardcore, and have harboured some thoughts of resuming, now that I'm getting used to 1.10(especially after reading the Neverdeath guide in these Hallowed Halls!). But, Act 5 Hell? Only in groups? Even then......I just don't know. Those old item hunting areas like the Ancients Way have to be a graveyard nowadays!

Bill

[Obi2Kenobi]

/edit: Oops... double post

[Obi2Kenobi]

I'll give you some helpful hints about surviving HC.
(You don't have to do all of them, but some combination does help)

1) Vitality
Even when playing characters (like your normal, run of the mill, melee barb) that use strength to increase damage, pump vitality. Just get your strength up to the minimal gear requirements. If, for some strange reason, you feel you have enough life, too bad. I've never heard of someone dieing because they had too much life.* Dexterity, however, is a much more complicated stat. First, you have to decide if you want to be max block. If not, use just enough to have a good attack rating (but don't forget that you can get AR from charms and gear).

2) Ranged Attacks
If you aren't right to the monsters, you've eliminated all melee damage (except for a few lucky hits).

3) Play More Carefully
While although in SC you can get away with charging into a room in A5 hell, it's best to cast a minion inside the room if possible. If not possible, cast an area of effect spell (such as Frozen orb or Blizzard) on the door to wake up a few monsters, and take away the element of surprise. This way you can slowly move into the room (and if you're really careful, immediately back out) after dispatching your current foes.

4) Party Up
The one you've all been waiting for, play in parties.

5) Walk
Get into the habit of walking between battles and walk into unexplored areas. Running reduces block to 1/3 and elimates your defense rating (or does it give them a 95% chance to hit before block?)

6) Connection
If your ping is higher than usual or FPS too low, don't play for a little bit. Sometimes, just disconnecting from B.net and then logging back on works.

*With the exception of 1.09 Iron Golems with BO, Oak sage, and high level golem mastery dieing because their life wrapped around, but that's not a character.

So, with these tips, and common sense, this should help you stay alive. :)

/edit: There was no typo here. There was no typo within a hundred miles of here. I am not afraid, and neither should you be.