...might have to say goodbye to Lurkers on Tich :(

[Cyath]

Ok I did it, I stuck it out till 41, I got my mount all by my lonesome, I didn't do a single instance besides WC...and still no Lurkers on Tich. :(

Almost everytime I log in there is no one around, SOMETIMES I will see MongoJerry or Boutros but even that is a rare occurence. It's really lonely and boring with no one to play with. I can of course join random parties but it's just not the same.

I have an alt on Stormrage (Tomjones, level 20 gnome mage) but my heart remains with Horde PvP. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Alliance PvE too, but I would like to continue on Tich, especially as I have a 41 chara there.

Anyway, trying not to sound like I'm whining or begging, just stating things as I see it. What I'll probably do if try and join the Basin on Tich, since I was once a member-on-probation while playing D2 and I know some people there (stopped playing D2 before I became a member lol) They are a great clan/guild anyway.

So with your blessing/s I'll leave the Lurkers for now...if time permits I will try to be more active on Stormrage since I have always loved the Lounge since my D2 days.

[MongoJerry]

Yeah, absolutely. I was actually going to encourage you to join the Basin on Tich, if you felt that way. Join the "Lurkers" channel, though, and keep in touch and let's instance together when you get to 60.

You haven't seen me on Tich much in the last week, because I've been focusing on a killer take-home midterm for a graduate physics class. (For those who've gone through graduate physics, I have one word for you, "Jackson.") I hope to finish it tonight, but it might extend until tomorrow.

[Boutros]

I can't say I blame you. Having only 2 or 3 regular players in the guild is hard. I had it easy for most of my leveling since I'd always have my brother to play with, but after he quit it was a long grind to 60 without someone to help out with quests and alliance.

Sadly, it did seem like our playing schedules didn't overlap a lot. I hardly ever saw you online, even though I play a fair amount.

I hope you have fun in The Basin from what I've seen you should have a decent number of people to play with on your way up. Maybe someday more Lurkers will feel the bloodlust, give in to their baser instincts and start characters on Tich. Until then I guess I'll just have Mongo to talk to in guild chat.

[kandrathe]

Many of us play horde on Terenas. It's not PvP, and frankly I get ganked enough thank you on a PvE server. Couple that with the former instability of Tich, results in that I would never, ever want to create a character on Tich.

I'm really not interested in dueling, being a better dueler, or struggling against the opposing faction just to get my questing done. I have limited time to play and me versus the AI monsters is sufficiently fun for me now.

My highest level character on Stormrage is nearing 40, but in PvP, the group with the bigger cannons wins. When players go out on a raid against a town, it is all the lowest level players that are targeted and killed first. It's uncanny how far that level 60 char will go to gank a lowbie, just because they had the audacity to cast a buff on someone flagged. When I'm level 60, and I can hold my own on an equal setting I may feel differently.

Please come and hang out in PVE if you like, but I don't think there will be many Lurkers moving to PvP soon.

[Olon97]

I see Mongo and Boutros and Lerkur in the Tich /lurkers channel from time to time (I guilded up with the basin from the start - originally started frequenting Basin during a LL outage). Considering the Basin's open door approach, it makes a lot of sense to join up if you're looking for more warm bodies in Guild chat. The mindset and philosophies of the two communities is very similar.

In the 40-45 Basin cohort, there are 42 toons, 30 of which are people's mains (i.e. players playing at a similar pace as you most likely). A lot of people still starting babies too. I'm going to start a druid soon, with the full intent of taking her to 60, probably meet up with you along the way.

I also have a couple rl friends in the 37-43 range on the server (who I've been ignoring with my love affair with tanking end-game content). Shame on me.

Tich toons:
Olon 35 Shaman - kind of idle
Olona 60 War - very active
(druid TBD)

Anyone else in /Lurkers please feel free to message me whenever. I'm always up for challenging content and/or testing wierd mechanics - or just helping out for that matter. :D

[Lissa]

  (For those who've gone through graduate physics, I have one word for you, "Jackson.")  I hope to finish it tonight, but it might extend until tomorrow.
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Is this the EM Jackson or a different Jackson in another specialty? (Being a NE, anytime someone brings up physics, my ears perk up for whether it's QM/NP or other branches...)

[TheDragoon]

Is this the EM Jackson or a different Jackson in another specialty?  (Being a NE, anytime someone brings up physics, my ears perk up for whether it's QM/NP or other branches...)
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I would imagine it's the EM Jackson since that's THE graduate physics book on that subject. :)

[Kevin]

Yeah, I think I'm one of the more active Lurkers on Tich, and I'm never on. I've been getting pulled into playing Gnolack on Stormrage a lot lately add to that the hellish time I had with Pyrewood Village and the Eastern Kingdoms dying all the time as well as horrid loot lag issues a lot when I was on and I was soured on Tich.

I will still be over there every now and again. I've got a solo warrior on there so I can still get on even if Treesh is not in a PvP mood. But I doubt there will ever be a large number of lurkers there and with all my split timing I won't have any significant leveled chars there for quite some time (Gnolack is my play time leader and he is still only 46).

[MongoJerry]

Many of us play horde on Terenas.   It's not PvP, and frankly I get ganked enough thank you on a PvE server.   Couple that with the former instability of Tich, results in that I would never, ever want to create a character on Tich.

You also miss out on the fantastic comraderie that comes from joining together with perfect strangers to beat off members of the opposing faction from your territory. ("Your territory" is defined here as any place where you are at). There's this whole other aspect of the game that so many Lurkers are missing out on. There are all these little skills that players have that PvE'ers ask, "Why is that there? That's worthless!" Then, you play on a PvP server, and you're like, "Oh! *That's* why that skill is there." No, PvP isn't for everyone, but I wager that it's for more Lurkers than have tried it. It isn't the gankfest that you D2-oldtimers think. It's actually quite fun, if you're in the right mindset, and it adds spice to the usual questing grind.

And I don't know what you're talking about with server stability. Other than a few hiccups after a couple of maintenance patches, Tichondrius has been quite stable. I rarely have problems with server stability.

Edit: 42 pages of physics explainations and calculations done! *Whew* And, yes, it's for a graduate E&M class, or as most physics graduate students call it, "Jackson," for the textbook that most graduate E&M classes use. Whatever happened to the days when I thought a 6-page double-spaced English essay was something monumental?

[Treesh]

And I don't know what you're talking about with server stability.  Other than a few hiccups after a couple of maintenance patches, Tichondrius has been quite stable.  I rarely have problems with server stability.
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And how much time are you spending in instances? Or even just avoiding the Eastern Kingdoms? That instability and weird little hiccups here and there drove me off. I absolutely loved playing my warlock with GG's mage over there until the stability really went into the toilet. It may be fixed now (and I hope it is) since Stormrage isn't tanking all the time now.

And PvP servers really are quite fun. I've never been ganked, had far less griefing on the PvP server than on the PvE servers and it sure is nice to be able to kill those buggers wandering in my territory. It always bugged me that I couldn't attack anyone in the starting areas on the PvE servers when they'd inevitably come in to try to just wipe out all quest giving NPCs. PvE, I have to wait until they attack. PvP, they're mine when I see 'em! At level 12, my priest managed to get in on the kill of a level 42 orc rogue (this is on Firetree rather than Tichondrius obviously). I was the only one who managed to get a DoT on him so he couldn't vanish. The killing of quest NPCs isn't quite as prevalent on the PvP servers, frequently because you do have a large amount of people who are willing to help defend. That level 42 rogue was killed not by higher level people, but by a swarm of level 10-16 characters and one NPC guard. It was great fun actually being able to help defend instead of being the only one trying and ending up dead because of it.

I am glad I started out on a PvE server when I first got the game so I could learn more about all the skills and such, but (when the server is stable) PvP servers really are quite fun. And I am not normally a PvPer in multiplayer games. I'm more of a coop gal. :)

[Tal]

You also miss out on the fantastic comraderie that comes from joining together with perfect strangers to beat off members of the opposing faction from your territory. ("Your territory" is defined here as any place where you are at).  There's this whole other aspect of the game that so many Lurkers are missing out on.  There are all these little skills that players have that PvE'ers ask, "Why is that there?  That's worthless!"  Then, you play on a PvP server, and you're like, "Oh!  *That's* why that skill is there."  No, PvP isn't for everyone, but I wager that it's for more Lurkers than have tried it.  It isn't the gankfest that you D2-oldtimers think.  It's actually quite fun, if you're in the right mindset, and it adds spice to the usual questing grind.
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You can also get the same comraderie on the PvE server though - just last night I was picking up the cookbook in Astranaar when the local defense channel advertized that the greenpaw village was under attack. Checking the map I noticed that it was just north of my own position. I wandered up and saw a horde group, flagged for PvP on top of a knoll. It appeared at first glance to be a level 32 shaman and a level 34 hunter with pet. I was a level 35 warrior and wondering just how lucky I would have to be to pull off killing them when I noticed that there were two more members on the other side of the mound. One was a level 34 hunter and a level ?? undead mage. Crap. I was contemplating a suicidal charge when I received a group invite. Looking around I see a level 33 priestess, a level 32 hunter and a level 45 warlock. This was more like it. We shaped up and formed a battle plan. A moment later the charge of the light brigade was under way. Within seconds the mage was dead, our priestess was wiped, and I had turned on the Shaman. A furious battle ensued between the hunters and our hunter and warlock while I ran all over after the Shaman. A switch of stance (thank you tactical mastery) and a shield bash later and the Shaman had also fallen to Shalandrax's blades (yes I pvp'd with dual wield :P). This continued for about 15 minutes with one side or the other prevailing until either the server crashed or I did. :D

T'was much fun after my earlier disapointment of hunting a level 60 rogue in the Ironforge Tram who had been sapping the NPCs on Sharanna. I really wanted that rogue to come out and play. :(

[Kevin]

While I don't disagree about people coming together on the PvE servers at certian times. It isn't like what I have experienced in my limited time on the PvP servers. I've been in Brill on PvE servers while Alliance harried the NPC's and seen L50 Horde come through and just watch it happen. On the PvP server when something similar happened all the little undead were doing what they could and every high level horde member in the area came and at least looked around for the alliance.

I've seen similar disinterest from people who could have done something about the attacks while playing Alliance on PvE servers in Goldshire and Astranaar. Since I haven't played PvP alliance side I don't know how responsive the players are to threats alliance side, but I assume it is similar.

There are differences between PvP and PvE servers. The constant state of PvP on the PvP servers changes the dynamic. It doesn't mean that disinterest doesn't happen for PvP fights on the PvP servers and it doesn't mean that PvP doesn't happen on PvE servers. There is a difference though and the PvP community of strangers has felt more closely knit to me from my limited experience.

It's never all or nothing though. As mentioned I need to be in the right mindset to enjoy my time on the PvP server. There are times when I'm on a PvE server and I go, "I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that opposite faction member in this quest area right now." There are times when I think "Damn I wish he was flagged!". If I feel the later a lot then I go over to Tich. :)


Edit: Found a few more typos that I missed in preview.

[Mavfin]

When I most enjoy the PvE server ability to ignore PvP, is when I'm with my questing buddy She [well, he, but, female char, like me] and I have duoed together since we were both about lvl 8 or 9 on our first chars, and now we're both 40 or close to it, and we still quest together.

When we both get the time to finish up hard quests together, we don't really want to spend that time fighting a raid, or raiding. We work best out kicking mobs around.

OTOH, with other groups, or my Horde guild, it's a diff story. Just depends on how I feel.

[Skandranon]

I've seen similar disinterest from people who could have done something about the attacks while playing Alliance on PvE servers in Goldshire and Astranaar. 

One example: while waiting to get into Dire Maul, there was a huge crowd in the entryway. Bolty flagged himself and immediately was blasted by six Horde. There were at least fourteen Alliance in the area, and no one lifted a finger to help. Sword of Doom resurrected Bolty and got flagged in the process. Naturally, the Horde went after him. I retaliated on a hunter, but we were both killed. Again, nothing from the other Alliance.

There are differences between PvP and PvE servers.  The constant state of PvP on the PvP servers changes the dynamic.  It doesn't mean that disinterest doesn't happen for PvP fights on the PvP servers and it doesn't mean that PvP doesn't happen on PvE servers.  There is a difference though and the PvP community of strangers has felt more closely knit to me from my limited experience.
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I don't disagree with your point. I think the PvP community is probably closer knit, but I don't think it's because the server changes the dynamic. People who want PvP and who are inclined to that sense of unity head to PvP servers, while people who are generally apathetic to PvP head to PvE servers.

When the Horde are attacking someplace, there's no difference between PvP and PvE servers. All the attackers are flagged, so you can start combat whenever you like. And yet, the most common response I see in Ironforge is "Wait and hope they go away".

That isn't to say that all of the players on PvE servers are apathetic to PvP. There are quite a lot of enthusiastic PvPers on Stormrage, and having spent some time in the major PvP zones, I've seen a lot of huge battles. However, while some who want PvP go to PvP servers and some go to normal servers, all of the ones who don't go to normal servers.

[Lissa]

Edit:  42 pages of physics explainations and calculations done!  *Whew*  And, yes, it's for a graduate E&M class, or as most physics graduate students call it, "Jackson," for the textbook that most graduate E&M classes use.  Whatever happened to the days when I thought a 6-page double-spaced English essay was something monumental?
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Heh..sounds like my senior Nuclear Reactor lab I had each week while getting my Bachelors degree. 20+ pages every week from writing abstrat all the way through to conclusions.

[Mavfin]

Of course, you really can't blast people *on a PvE server* for being apathetic to PvP. Many of them are there because they don't want to do it. Of course they're apathetic to it. They came to that server so they wouldn't be forced to participate in it.

I'm apathetic to it on Uldum when I'm busy with something else, be it a quest, a group, my guild, crafting, whatever. On a PvP server? No, not apathetic. But I don't think there should be any grumbling about someone not participating in PvP stuff on a PvE server. It's what the PvE servers were made for, after all.

I also don't run down PvPers, however. It is their choice. No one should run them down because they like to raid, in the current PvE system. I figure ganking isn't really relevant on a PvE server. You have a choice--flag or don't. If you're flagged, you're a target. Simple as that. You have the choice to not be one, so don't gripe if you flag yourself as a lvl 20, and a 40 takes your head off.

It's just a different mindset, and both are valid.

[MongoJerry]

When we both get the time to finish up hard quests together, we don't really want to spend that time fighting a raid, or raiding.  We work best out kicking mobs around. 

That's the thing. On a PvP server, it's not large scale raiding. Most PvP is small group stuff that happens spontaneously. You're out in the wilderness doing your quest thing when you turn the corner and *bam*, there's some alliance. You have only a second to evaluate the situation. How big is their party? What are their levels? What is their class configuration? In a fight, which party would likely win? If my party won, would it be a convincing enough victory that we wouldn't lose anyone or at least could rez the one or two people who do die? Would the victory be convincing enough to discourage reprisals? Are there other Horde groups nearby whose assistance we could ask for? Do we fight, flee, or "try to be cool" (in other words, see if the alliance guys would be willing to agree to a temporary cease-fire so that both groups can finish their quests -- negotiations usually involve a series of /wave's and /bow's).

You can bet the Alliance group has seen you and is running through its own thought process. If you don't evaluate the situation quickly enough, you'll have your decision made for you. It's this kind of intensity and spontaneity that players on the PvE servers miss out on. Yes, you can occationally fight other players who attack your towns, but that's all planned out and you can watch the fight as long as you want and only flag yourself for PvP at the most advantageous time for yourself (when the other guy's back is turned and is fighting two other players/NPC's, most likely). That's just not PvP to me, or at best it's PvP-lite. In real PvP, you have to deal with the reactions and intelligences of the opposing players. Sometimes, you find yourself in disadvantageous situations. Hey, that's life. The question is how you deal with it. Sometimes I've ended up winning due to skill or luck even though I started off in a disadvantaged position. Sometimes, winning is simply getting away. Sometimes, it involves getting revenge or grabbing some people to help you get revenge.

And hey, I understand that some people are still getting used to the game, are having fun exploring a lot of the PvE content, and don't want to have to be "bothered" by other players. If that fits your personality, then that's fine. All I'm saying is that there is this whole other aspect of the game that you're missing out on.

[Mavfin]

Good points, Mongo.

Different mindsets, apples and oranges between the two worlds, as you pointed out.

[Rinnhart]

Running through the Talondeep path on my 32 rogue yesterday, and who comes around the bend but a 32 undead priest. Instantly, SW:P hits me... can't vanish now, guess it's ON!

A crazed night elf with a rapier and a backpack full of explosives flies at the bastard. Lay into him hard with the sinister strikes, hit eviscerate instictively and almost die for it, but he's swinging his staff at me as I'm bouncing around the narrow tunnel and I get a lucky parry in - combat training pays off and a hard riposte leaves him almost dead. But not fast enough!

I'm feared back down the tunnel around a corner, luckily, and out of LoS. His life jumps back to near full as I charge back into him, I'm at about half. Heavy crits as blades lash at the lightly armored priest. He attempts to nuke me (looked like mind blast) and a fast kick interrupts and flicks off another fragment of his life. It comes down to a race between my combo points and his fear refresh.

Improved Sinister Strikes pays for itself. Four points and I kidney shot - four seconds of stun, more than I need. Shadow Word: Pain finally fades as he dies. Bandage up, and I'm off to Stonetalon.

That, after being offed by so many priests on my paladin, felt really, really good.

[Bolty]

One example: while waiting to get into Dire Maul, there was a huge crowd in the entryway.  Bolty flagged himself and immediately was blasted by six Horde.  There were at least fourteen Alliance in the area, and no one lifted a finger to help.[right][snapback]73196[/snapback][/right]

Ugh, yes. I was a victim of my months of experience on the PvP beta server. Outside Dire Maul was a huge conglomerate of Horde and Alliance players, and my foolish assumption was that the moment I started off some PvP, it would turn into a huge battle royale, as it would on a PvP server as players of both sides stare each other down until someone fires first (kinda like nuclear war in that).

Quite the opposite. I flagged PvP, taunted a Horde hunter, and engaged him when he answered my challenge, much to my delight - only to be torn to shreds by 5 more Horde without anyone trying to help.

I like PvP. I liked the PvP server more than the PvE server, it's a lot more fun. But it's the ganking I just can't handle. If PvP ever implements a dishonor system to stop level 60's from nuking my level 20ish char over and over, I'm there in a heartbeat.

-Bolty