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Struck by nostalgia
07-14-2005, 03:55 PM
Post: #41
Struck by nostalgia
Okay. Let's see:

Quote:At this point, pretty much any game I know I will cheat in, I will not play, for that specific reason.

Hmmm. You are aware of the spell level bug? Everyone is. All you need is level 15 firebolt and any level of fireball, nova or apocalypse, and it is very easy to do. I know I'm not using it. If I did, I could just as well use a character editor, because I'd no longer be playing Diablo, just pointlessly killing random monsters.

Then again, why would anyone trust me on that, considering I am such a ruthless criminal that I even downloaded Hellfire after two years of looking for it and not finding it. After all, I screwed Sierra out of the X euros they wouldn't have gotten anyway because there is not a single copy of Hellfire to be found in any shop within a 20 kilometre radius so I CAN'T BUY THE STUPID THING.

PS: yep, posting direct links to download sites would be a bridge too far; a subtle hint ala 'try bittorrent' is more than enough and doesn't threaten the Lounge. There is a large difference in this society between what we're allowed to think and what we're allowed to say in public.

PS: Hellfire definitely isn't worth risking the Lounge over. It may be a piece of Diablo history, but other than that, it sucks.

Nothing is impossible if you believe in it enough.

Median 2008 mod for Diablo II
<span style="color:gray">New skills, new AIs, new items, new challenges...
06.dec.2006: Median 2008 1.44
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07-15-2005, 11:09 PM
Post: #42
Struck by nostalgia
Attika,Jul 13 2005, 10:32 PM Wrote:Link.

http://p205.ezboard.com/fthedsfcommunityfr...start=1&stop=20

There are many others.&nbsp; Please browse to see if any of them address your exact concern.
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Thank you. I'll look over what it says, as I suspect it will probably be somewhat insightful.


Jarulf,Jul 13 2005, 11:18 PM Wrote:The concept of abandonware or things not being available really have no support in copyright law (and typically there is always someone, somewere who holds the copyright). Hence it is as illegal to copy or offerr for download an "abandoned" game as the latest hit game.

Such "abandonware sites" as Bolty mentiones typically (from my understanding) do have sort of permision from the original makers that it is OK, or make a sort of hit and run move when it appear that the actual copyright holder is really so gone that it won't appear and won't complain.
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This I understand, and after having thought about lemming's response, was the same conclusion I came to. Again, my apologies.

Brother Laz,Jul 14 2005, 07:55 AM Wrote:Okay. Let's see:
Hmmm. You are aware of the spell level bug? Everyone is. All you need is level 15 firebolt and any level of fireball, nova or apocalypse, and it is very easy to do. I know I'm not using it. If I did, I could just as well use a character editor, because I'd no longer be playing Diablo, just pointlessly killing random monsters.

PS: Hellfire definitely isn't worth risking the Lounge over. It may be a piece of Diablo history, but other than that, it sucks.
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No idea what you are talking about for this bug. I usually don't run fire sorcs anyway, so I'm not sure if it'd apply. Is this for Diablo then, as apoc is shown?

As for that second part I quoted, I agree, which is why I removed the offer to upload. :)
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07-16-2005, 12:21 AM
Post: #43
Struck by nostalgia
SetBuilder,Jul 15 2005, 07:09 PM Wrote:Thank you. I'll look over what it says, as I suspect it will probably be somewhat insightful.

It may or may not. My point in mentioning olden DSF cheating debates is that they often went ... I hate to say "deep" because profundity was not the purpose, but essentially these threads were quite analytical and practical.

Here's an old post of mine:

Lemming Wrote:How about you just ask the right question? "What is cheating in D1?"

The following assumes all players are playing the same game. It can be D1, HF, a mod, whatever. Comparing two characters playing different games serves no purpose, because cheating can only occur with respect to a specific game environment.

(1) Abusing game bugs for your benefit.
(2) Usage of third-party program to modify how the game works or change a game condition. Godmode, stat modification, learn all spells, free items. This includes using your operating system to restore a character who suffered a game-sanctioned loss (e.g. item loss because you died in H/H and couldn't retrieve them).
(3) Directly benefitting from another player engaging in (1) or (2).

Now, the practical purpose of all this is to determine two things:
(1 -- Multiplayer Aspect) Is this person someone I want to game with?
(2 -- Maintaining Gameplay Standards) If they have engaged in "shady practices," have they done something such that I discount any possible achievement they might make? This is also self-applicable : do I discount my own achievements with a character because I knowingly/unknowingly did some strange stuff?

"Legit" provides a standard for comparison of characters. At the Lounge, we believe playing the game is more than just "having fun." We're about learning the game, becoming proficient at it, understanding the game, and challenging yourself. People who're just out to "have fun" don't have the same standards that we do. And worse, they have a tendency to spread their low standards to others in multiplayer (i.e. cheating breeds cheating). That is unacceptable, so we will do everything in our power to prevent cheating.


-Lemmy
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07-16-2005, 01:18 AM
Post: #44
Struck by nostalgia
LemmingofGlory,Jul 15 2005, 08:21 PM Wrote:My point in mentioning olden DSF cheating debates is that they often went ... I hate to say "deep" because profundity was not the purpose, but essentially these threads were quite analytical and practical.
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Until they descended into childish name-calling, that is. Man, I miss those days :D
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07-16-2005, 04:37 AM (This post was last modified: 07-16-2005 05:11 AM by [vL]Kp.)
Post: #45
Struck by nostalgia
Just to really confuse the issue, I have to throw this one out:

LemmingofGlory,Jul 16 2005, 12:21 AM Wrote:
Lemming Wrote:(1) Abusing game bugs for your benefit.
(2) Usage of third-party program to modify how the game works or change a game condition. Godmode, stat modification, learn all spells, free items. This includes using your operating system to restore a character who suffered a game-sanctioned loss (e.g. item loss because you died in H/H and couldn't retrieve them).[right][snapback]83580[/snapback][/right]

So what would be the conclusion if I employed a change whose only purpose was to fix the duping bug, so that I could shuffle items as quickly and as often as I wanted, and never dupe anything? This is clearly an advantage for me, as I can move potions around with less thought to consequences than someone playing strict unmodified duping-enabled Diablo. Yet, failure to employ this change runs the risk of bug abuse, as well as the risk of converting something useful into junk. :)

[Edit: fixed quote tags.]
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07-16-2005, 06:41 AM
Post: #46
Struck by nostalgia
[vL]Kp,Jul 16 2005, Wrote:So what would be the conclusion if I employed a change whose only purpose was to fix the duping bug, so that I could shuffle items as quickly and as often as I wanted, and never dupe anything?&nbsp; This is clearly an advantage for me, as I can move potions around with less thought to consequences than someone playing strict unmodified duping-enabled Diablo.&nbsp; Yet, failure to employ this change runs the risk of bug abuse, as well as the risk of converting something useful into junk. :)

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Now you're just talking crazy-talk :)
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07-16-2005, 01:08 PM
Post: #47
Struck by nostalgia
nice thread, doesnt seem to be a bad community here ;)

wont go into the abandonware/hellfire issue. But i think i understand the way Setbuilder means he thinks it's hard not to cheat, it happened to my in my first Diablo period at age around 14 about a year or 7, 8 ago. I didnt dupe at the time, but knew how to do it, and then the problem comes around, you've finished your dungeon and decide to take a quick look at Gris' items. He offers something great, but you havent enough gold, and there's none in the dungeon. It's 2 am, so there are no friends around to invite for money, let alone mule in some gold. But leaving the game would mean you lose the treasure you want and having to wait games and games before Gris rolls that particuler number again (if you dont levelup too much in between). Now of course you could take that armor and some pots and make some money. Very tempting.

not even saying that a rogue should be able to steal from shopkeepers ;) (it will cost the rogue a lot of reputation if seen however ;))

and for your info, if the inet hasnt conveyed my meaning in the right way, i dont cheat, except for a little backupping for the everpresent lag-out trouble, and being able to keep your games after formats. (and although maybe cheating, i'd also use it when i (unwillingly!) touch a cauldron or click new game when my treasure still iis in town. such things spoil gaming fun)

Characters: Standard Diablo Rogues: 'Paardenpoep' l36, 'Purechocolade' l31; Sorcerers 'Toverkol' l40, 'Zwarte Piet' l32, 'ZureHaring' l28 (no fb), Warrior 'Klotebeest' l29, LoL characters: rogues 'Roggebrood' l26 and 'Ironvrouw' l7, sorcerer ToverLol l20, warrior LolleBolleGijs l16 ironman character name 'Ironlady', read Toverlol's journey log
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07-16-2005, 01:30 PM
Post: #48
Struck by nostalgia
[vL]Kp,Jul 16 2005, Wrote:So what would be the conclusion if I employed a change whose only purpose was to fix the duping bug, so that I could shuffle items as quickly and as often as I wanted, and never dupe anything?&nbsp; This is clearly an advantage for me, as I can move potions around with less thought to consequences than someone playing strict unmodified duping-enabled Diablo.

Analogy:
"What if I designed the perfect PC that would never crash while running Diablo, thereby removing all possiblity of item loss due to death and subsequent game lockup?"

Ignoring the paradox created by hypothetically considering an uncrashable Windows box, the player would have an "advantage" since the idyllic circumstances prevent untoward things from happening that can happen to other players, but for this to be called "cheating" you'd have to assume that losing items in this situation is supposed to be part of the game.

So for a duplication bugfix to be cheating, one would have to assume that accidental item duplication is supposed to be an impediment to players.

-Lemmy
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