New Hunter talent trees

[Roland]

You're confusing me with Artega.  I don't think it needs a "fix" at all; I'm just explaining to hunters who don't "get it" why Wyvern Sting is powerful and definitely something to consider taking.
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Ah. Sorry. My bad. It's a long thread, and many of the posts are long to boot. Plus, I was distracted by my g/f who was pestering me about using the computer. :P (I love her though.)

Anyways, not being much of a Hunter player, and certainly not having a high-level Hunter, I guess I'm beyond being able to "get it", although I can at least attempt. There's just too many skills to follow. :P

Thanks for the highlight, though.

[Brista]

I don't see why you'd need to Feign Death here, since you can set the trap ahead of time and you can fire Scorpid Sting in combat.  Besides, Feign Death makes all traps dissappear.  I guess you could Feign Death after the first set, set a new trap and start the whole process over.  It'd take quite a bit of practice, but I supposed you could keep a mob permanently cc'd this way with sets of Wyvern Sting, Scorpid Sting, Freeze Trap, Feign Death... repeat.
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Good point

So that's actually rather a lot of cc

Wyvern Sting 12s
Scorpid sting
Freezing Trap 26s
Fd & Freezing trap 26s

and it would have been another too had not Hunter players lobbied successfully for Counterattack to replace readiness

Very useful for those fights Skandranon is talking about upthread

[kandrathe]

Yes, that would work.  Freezing Trap then Feign Death then Wyvern Sting would be less mana.

Is Disengage a viable alternative to Feign Death?
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It is if the threat reduced is sufficient for the critter to stop attacking you, which enables you to exit combat (note: Pet must also not be in combat). If not, you can still try to FD.

[kandrathe]

You're kidding right on Survival?  Survival is now *THE* tree for hunters....+15% Agi...Increased Health (about the equivalent of 30 extra stamina or more), +3% crit chance on all attacks and dovetails with the +5 crit chance in marksmanship to give you +8 crit chance with bows?  I will gladly say goodbye to Trueshot Aura to get the final sting in Survival and everything I can inbetween...I can easily see Lissanna going 31 Survival and 20 Marksman now.
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I wrestled with 31 survival, but I enjoy the 6 yds of additional range that Hawk Eye gives me. With concussive shot, I get 3-5 sec or 1-2 shots in before even ranged attackers can engage me. Especially valuable in end raids where I can stand well outside the range of negative effects. If I sacrifice Hawk Eye, then suddenly I need to really worry about resist gear a whole bunch. I agree that the utility of True Shot aura is dubious, although it is the one party aura buff we can share.

I'm considering a Survivalist/Marksmanship build that does not sacrifice Hawk Eye;



So this gives up any beast mastery, which so far has helped for solo but is moot for instance and raiding. In Marksmanship I lose Ranged Weapon Specialization(+5% ranged weapon dmg) , Improved Scorpid Sting (tended to be resisted by most mobs that matter), and True shot aura.

I gain +3% dmg & critical dmg to beasts, dragonkin, giants, and humanoids, %20 chance for all traps to actually trap, +20% crit chance on Raptor and Mongoose strikes, 12% chance for Wing clip to immobilize, +30% duration on traps, -10% for mobs to resist traps, +3% chance to hit, +15% chance to resist movement impairing effects, +3% critical with all attacks, and +6% agility.

This build wouldn't get the full +15% agility bonus, or Wyvern Sting -- but vast improvements in all other tricks in the kit, and a heck of alot more damage possible for both melee and ranged.

Or, the 31/20 spec I'd consider would be;



Which further sacrificed Aimed Shot (+70 dmg), Hawk Eye (+ 6 yards range), and some from Improved Hunters Mark -- but adds an additional +9% agility and Wyvern Sting.

Edit: With Blizzard switching Barrage and Hawk Eye -- that makes the 31 survival/20 Marksmanship build even more desirable. I'll have to wait and see what the talent tree actually looks like. :w00t: Munch Munch, have cake, and eating it as well.

[Quark]

Or, the 31/20 spec I'd consider would be;



Which further sacrificed Aimed Shot (+70 dmg), Hawk Eye (+ 6 yards range), and some from Improved Hunters Mark -- but adds an additional +9% agility and Wyvern Sting.
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If you go 20/31, why not take another point out of Improved Hunter's Mark to get Aimed Shot?

[Wogan]

Now this is good news:

Hawk Eye has switched places with Barrage in the Marksmanship talent tree, and another rank has been added to Barrage. This change will be in 1.7.

[kandrathe]

If you go 20/31, why not take another point out of Improved Hunter's Mark to get Aimed Shot?
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I'm struggling with Aimed shot anyway. Once your %crit chance and damage is high on normal shots, why would you waste time (weapon speed +3 sec) on a slow shot with just slightly higher damage. Sure, I might crit and get 1500-2200 dmg, but just as often its 500-700, where my normal shots are coming in in that same area. Anyway, my feeling is that it might be better to get 2-3 normal speed auto-shot, Arcane, or multi-shots off in faster succession, each with a chance to crit. Also, if I spend 4 seconds on an AS and shot and miss, well I have the damage opportunity loss, and mana, and cooldown on Arcane shot as well.

[Skandranon]

Now this is good news:

Hawk Eye has switched places with Barrage in the Marksmanship talent tree, and another rank has been added to Barrage. This change will be in 1.7.

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Sheesh. Could they push that 31/20 any harder? So much for hard choices.

[Drasca]

why would you waste time (weapon speed +3 sec) on a slow shot

Its an opener.

Sometimes you want the slow speed. In pvp, if you have someone freeze trapped, you tend to aim shot. In PvE If you're facing enemies your warrior is about to charge, and we're the raid is going at a steadily fast pace, all ranged open with their slow big attacks to give time for warrior to take initial aggro. Beyond that, you get the interesting 'prebuffed damage' effect when many ranged dps do this where the initial enemy's hp goes down by a big chunk, and is whittled down to nothingness afterward before 2nd or 3rd nukes can be put in.

Its not a mid-combat skill, your multishot and arcane is just more fun for that, but as an opener its fantastic. Slow delayed attacks are better for aggro management, and opening when you have time to.

[kandrathe]

Its an opener.

Sometimes you want the slow speed. In pvp, if you have someone freeze trapped, you tend to aim shot.
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I could see it for PvP when you have the luxury of 4 unmolested seconds to stand back and carefully aim and shoot, but you still have variable results, and can miss. Unless your Hunter is your tank, I wouldn't recommend AS in any other circumstance, because if it hits and crits it will be hard for any thing to pull the mob from you, and since you are standing back with the squishies, once you die the priest is next.

Slow delayed attacks are better for aggro management, and opening...

I open with low threat attacks like a sting, then autoshot, then arcane so I don't have to worry about pulling the mob off the tank. In groups it's a team effort, so as long as the enemy goes down, we all win and its not a contest to see who did the most damage. No drama. I would never do as you suggest, wind up with AS as an opener giving the tank 4 sec to attempt to build enough hate to keep my imminent hit from making the mob run 40 yds to me. What if the tank misses a few swings? Yeah, it's cool to see that big yellow "2250" over the mobs head once in a blue moon, but in reality I think for that same investment of time and mana I could consistently have 2 or 3 750's and make decisions in between hits without the risks of pulling aggro.

The real question I'm wrestling with is "Is Aimed Shots limited utility better than one additional talent point in Improved Hunter's Mark (+3% to my base RAP)?"