Your thoughts on selling an account

[RTM]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?

[castille]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?
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Mostly, it's because someone will be benefitting not only from your efforts, but from ours. Any equipment that we helped you get, and that you spent time learning with us on, it all sort of goes to waste. Not to say that it's any different than you just not renewing, but at least that way, we know that if some day you decide to come back, it's still yours.

Plus, we have to go through the hassle of ensuring that they're deguilded from anything that might have an association with us -- though, some people might always connect the two. Paperwork! Oy! ;)

[Artega]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?
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You bought the game, paid the monthly fees, and spent the time and effort to get your account to the state it's in today - it's yours to do with as you wish (though Blizzard will disagree and people that straddle a particularly high moral horse will call you immoral.)

I'd sell it; if you play it right, you'll get back what you spent on the game and then some.

[Ynir]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?
[right][snapback]103713[/snapback][/right]

Shortly after Spangles joined her previous guild an officer sold his account. The purchaser got online, /w to each of us in turn, "you are unworthy" and kicked us out.

He wasnt GM so he couldn't disband the guild, but it took a week to sort out the mess :P

[Rinnhart]

it's yours to do with as you wish
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No, no it's not.

You're signing a contract every time you log on. Part of that contract reserves specific ownership rights for Blizzard. That's not moral high ground, it's legal high ground.

The moral high ground comes in where activities like selling accounts, items, and gold damage games, so Blizzard or any other company responds by tightening up the rules, nerfing the decent farming spots, and all around killing the party.

[fractaled]

That's hilarious. :)

[Tris]

Please see the EULA... as much as I hate them, they are something one has to live with. I wouldn't recommend selling the account. There are many potential issues that you could run into selling an account.

BTW... will miss you, and good luck in future endeavors

[Artega]

No, no it's not.

You're signing a contract every time you log on. Part of that contract reserves specific ownership rights for Blizzard. That's not moral high ground, it's legal high ground.

The moral high ground comes in where activities like selling accounts, items, and gold damage games, so Blizzard or any other company responds by tightening up the rules, nerfing the decent farming spots, and all around killing the party.
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And until Blizzard actually does a damned thing about it, it doesn't matter whether or not it's legal high ground or not. People sell accounts, gold, and items every day for real-world cash, and Blizzard doesn't do anything about it.

EDIT: About the moral bit: It doesn't ruin the game. People farm the money, and then sell it. That money is used by others to buy things like epics off the AH, epic mounts, and enchants. If you're poor, you feel screwed. If you're rich, or if you find an epic or good rare, then you can sell it for many times what it would "normally" be worth (which is actually what it's worth.) Case in point: I found a Glowing Brightwood Staff while questing in Silithus, sold it for 918g (after having a friend put an INT enchant on it), and used the money to buy my epic mount. Gold farming and gold selling/buying doesn't ruin the game.

[Rinnhart]

And until Blizzard actually does a damned thing about it, it doesn't matter whether or not it's legal high ground or not.  People sell accounts, gold, and items every day for real-world cash, and Blizzard doesn't do anything about it.

That big Vivendi legal team does do things besides cover corporate asses when the CS reps screw up.

EDIT: About the moral bit: It doesn't ruin the game.  People farm the money, and then sell it.  That money is used by others to buy things like epics off the AH, epic mounts, and enchants.  If you're poor, you feel screwed.  If you're rich, or if you find an epic or good rare, then you can sell it for many times what it would "normally" be worth (which is actually what it's worth.)  Case in point: I found a Glowing Brightwood Staff while questing in Silithus, sold it for 918g (after having a friend put an INT enchant on it), and used the money to buy my epic mount.  Gold farming and gold selling/buying doesn't ruin the game.
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LMFAOWTFBBQ

Erm. Excuse me.

No good comes from gold farming except for the profits mill owners reap by exploiting economic imbalance. I'm looking at you, Brock Pierce, you son of a bitch.

[Treesh]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?
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One of the bigger reasons why it's frowned upon in MMOs is because people recognize you by the character(s) you play. You sell that account to someone else, people try to talk, help, rely on, whatever that character and the character plays completely differently than what they remembered.

Let's say I sell my account (not going to happen folks, don't worry ;) ). Those folks who got to know Mogo as a healing shaman who isn't completely greedy about loot ask her to join a pug UBRS run or maybe a guild run that's a little short on healing. Someone vouches for her suitability. All of a sudden Mogo is an elemental shaman who pulls aggro constantly and always wipes the group and ends up ninjaing all the good loot if they manage to stay alive during an almost wipe. Now that other person's credibility with his guild has taken a hit. With smaller MMOs, your reputation and what kind of a name you make for yourself is really important. It's not as important in WoW, but it's still there. It's easier to hide in WoW with making 50 characters, "hidden" account names and so many servers and people, but it can affect more people than you may think selling it off.

Regardless of whatever you choose to do RTM, I wish you much happiness and fun. :)

[Drasca]

My feelings are in line with Artega, with the caveat that you make some effort to announce in-game you're going to sell the account before the subscription expires.

Honestly, stopping the in-game to real world cash economy isn't in any MMO company's interest. They lay claim to the right in case they wish to do it themselves, but otherwise it promotes the game and earns them farmer subscription fees. While doing the opposite costs the company money to hunt down. This game is a business, and if letting the virtual economy expand into real life earns them cash... I recall Sony raking it in themselves directly.

Note: I haven't sold my accounts any of the mmo's I've been in, nor do I intend to, but the economical value to the player and the gaming business is undeniable.

[Jarulf]

Please see the EULA... as much as I hate them, they are something one has to live with.  I wouldn't recommend selling the account.  There are many potential issues that you could run into selling an account.

The one getting the problems would be the buyer though... Not sure what account info one can change, I suppose one must be able to both change credit card and mail address and such, could be harder with name but if one is happy with that. I would say that the buyer is the one that has to have the trust and so on.

If one do it properly, like quiting guilds and so on before it should work out but there is always the risk that Blizzard closes the account.

Please see the EULA...

That is a risk the BUYER takes, that Blizzard might close the account. From the sellers point of view, it is quite moot since there is no risk of losing the account, you are not keeping it, that is the whole point of selling it.

[Arnulf]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?
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The responses you'll get range from: "It's a capitalistic world, sell it!" to "You cannot sell virtual stuff and it is not yours to sell to begin with.."

My thoughts: selling an account feels just not right to me. At least an account with characters which you had many connections and time spent with other people on a particular server. Basically you're saying with selling, 'I don't mind what the others, I did play together with, think or feel. They'll have to adapt to the new account holder.' I believe that's cold and self-centered.

-Arnulf

[nobbie]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts?

My thoughts? You will NEVER get the money back you've spent for the game/account and the HUGE amount of playing time. Plus, you'll be back for the "Burning Crusade" anyway ;)

[Bun-Bun]

What are people's thoughts on selling accounts? My subscription runs out soon and it crossed my mind as one of the options I have, since I won't be renewing. I get the feeling it's frowned upon, but why?
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When selling an account, you're selling your rep along with it. There's no way to put a sign on your character's back saying "Under New Management". An unscrupulous buyer could use that to advantage. It's disconcerting to anyone who knows you through your character as well.

There's also the point that you signed an agreement with Blizzard not to sell your account. You will have to decide for yourself what that means to you.

There are no real negative consequences to you if you do sell. There probably isn't much chance of bad things happening in-game either. Nobody's going to flog you, disown you, or make nasty faces at you behind your back.

I wouldn't do it myself, though. I value keeping my agreements too strongly to do that.

[Zarathustra]

Mostly, it's because someone will be benefitting not only from your efforts, but from ours. Any equipment that we helped you get, and that you spent time learning with us on, it all sort of goes to waste. Not to say that it's any different than you just not renewing, but at least that way, we know that if some day you decide to come back, it's still yours.

Plus, we have to go through the hassle of ensuring that they're deguilded from anything that might have an association with us -- though, some people might always connect the two. Paperwork! Oy! ;)
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Just had to echo this sentiment in that it can lead to guildmembers, friends, and pet monkeys feeling a bit scammed by the whole thing.

I'm willing to help out any friend of mine gearing up his character, questing, and having fun in the game. But if I had a buddy of mine say "Hey Zar... I'm going to sell my account in a few months and need a hand gearing him out so I can get more money. We really need to doubletime the raiding so I can finish up the Tier 1 set..." I'd laugh in his face.

I can completely understand the viewpoint of it being a cancelled acount or money in the bank. Getting paid for gaming is a good thing, right? But at the same time, I've given gold or epic drops like Foror's Compendium, the Hand of Edward the Odd, a couple Hurricane bows, etc., to friends just to help them out. I'd feel cheated if they then went on to make money off of my good fortune.

[Kevin]

As Bun and Treesh have pointed out, it's the strings that stay attached to the account itself that bug me more about the selling.

I do have the personal belief that it is your time and effort that you are selling if you sell the account and the legality of EULAs that say you can't still haven't been rigorously tested in the court system. I'm not fully sure where I stand on it. I see the rights of the company and the rights of the individual and I'm not sure where the scales should tip all the time. :) It's one of the fun things about this and other countries, two individuals may have the right to do something but those rights may impinge upon each other and then some rights end up being given priority. those are the tough and valueable decisions our courts make I feel.

Anyway, the less tangible impact on other people that doing this can have is the bigger concern and stumbling block for me. It's the reason I personally couldn't sell an account, even though I still feel I have a right to do it even while I do think Blizzard has the right to say and claim I shouldn't be able to, I think my right should take priority in this instance but again as said it hasn't really been tested.

I wouldn't think any less of you if you did it. I'll miss you in game regardless and I'll know if you do so I'll know that when I see Malody or Hit or Miss running around that I'm not seeing a virtual extension of RTM. I have no issues with things like losing effort I put in to get you gear, because well if it dropped in a raid you put in the effort for it too and our system is designed that effort in = reward out in the long term. If you had highest points you earned it. If you got something that would have been otherwise DE'd you actually gave me more points than if you weren't there. Whatever, that isn't a real issue in my mind. Besides if I gave you something that I found I gave it to you because I wanted to give it to you, I didn't do it to somehow make myself stronger so there is no loss there for me, not even regret that I could have given it to someone else who is still playing, if I wanted to have done that I would have at the time I gave it. So no issue from me personally on that front.

So did I muddy the waters well enough for you?

Do what you gotta do, have fun. I missed having you around when you took the break after "The Cutetest Kid in the World" was born. I'll miss having you around afterwards if the account is yours and dormant or someone else's and active. As said I personally couldn't do it because of the reasons others already illustrated.

[Artega]

LMFAOWTFBBQ

Erm. Excuse me.

No good comes from gold farming except for the profits mill owners reap by exploiting economic imbalance. I'm looking at you, Brock Pierce, you son of a bitch.
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What economic imbalance? It's a free market; prices aren't set in stone. If the price of Arcanite suddenly jumps to 35g for a week due to increased demand (which it just may well do so, when the new epic smithing prints come out in 1.10), then that's just how it goes. Just because you're poor - or refuse to farm for cash - doesn't mean the economy is screwed.

[Zarathustra]

What economic imbalance?  It's a free market; prices aren't set in stone.  If the price of Arcanite suddenly jumps to 35g for a week due to increased demand (which it just may well do so, when the new epic smithing prints come out in 1.10), then that's just how it goes.  Just because you're poor - or refuse to farm for cash - doesn't mean the economy is screwed.
[right][snapback]103803[/snapback][/right]

I'm with Artega on this being a free market. I think the negative connotation of "gold farming" is more influenced by the "farmers" who use exploits in order to reach that end.

For example, on Thunderhorn, the books out of the Dire Maul are cheap. How cheap? Well.... 3g buyout in the AH. This is because, for whatever reason, there are non-English speaking characters able to solo the instance in about 15 minutes... and no authority figure pops in to check out their exploits. We all know there's something shady going on there. Blizzard just doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. You can do a /who Dire Maul and see a number of unguilded hunters or rogues in there resetting the instance as often as they can to farm for the books.

And Foror's Compendium of Dragonslaying? What was once an extremely rare book is now plummeting. You can get one for 500g if you want to do some haggling, since the supply is very high from these farmers and we've reached a critical mass where every warrior who could possibly want a Quel'Serrar has one.

Normal "gold farming" on the other hand entails grinding an area or a mob for the money dropped or items to sell. Either way, it's putting time and effort into acquiring the gold. By that token... I guess I'm a gold farmer. I'll often head out to Silithus and kill cultists for their runecloth and ample pocket change, not to mention the major pots they drop.

There are two schools of "farming". Let's not blur the line between the two.

[Rinnhart]

What economic imbalance?  It's a free market; prices aren't set in stone.  If the price of Arcanite suddenly jumps to 35g for a week due to increased demand (which it just may well do so, when the new epic smithing prints come out in 1.10), then that's just how it goes.

...economic imbalance in the real world, Artega. That was a comment regarding the exploitation of foreign labor. There would be no gold farming without the readily available, cheap, and illegal workforce of China and wherever else they set up shop.

Just because you're poor - or refuse to farm for cash - doesn't mean the economy is screwed.
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Yes, I'm poor, excuse me, sire, I must get to market to sell these greens 'else my childrens will starve.