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Muling in Diablo
05-06-2006, 09:44 PM
Post: #21
Muling in Diablo
It's hardly worth arguing about in any case. Frankly, nobody needs to know even whether you use such a program or not. The exception would be if you engage in the practice of item trading. If you trade items with someone, it is fair that they know if such items have ever been imported into the game rather than being passed from character to character (regardless whether it is this program or Han Solo's trainer or whatever). Basically you can't consider it unreasonable for another person to consider any advantage gained from a third party program a form of cheating, and you don't want there to be hard feelings if you trade an item and then the person finds out later that you have thousands of items stored via a utility. That's simply an issue of trust. If the other person agrees with you on what qualifies as valid uses of the utility, they should have no problems making such a trade.

On a side note, one needs to be careful about making the argument that something is OK because all it does is reduce tedium. Allow me to abuse the slippery slope fallacy. :) Let us take the example of modifying the game to allow town teleport or fast walk (or the more adventurous variation of moving Adria and Wirt into Town Square). One can justify such things by saying that all they do is reduce tedium. After all, there is no risk involved in walking to Adria... you cannot die, lose life or mana, drop gold, lose permanent hp or spell points... you just use some time and it is done. One can easily extend such an argument to allow the importing of STR elixers in exchange for the destruction of 5000 gold with a level 26+ character. Just as easily, one can collect 100,000 gold, abandon it in a private game, and bump STR stat by 20 points in a trainer. Just as easily, one can collect the appropriate amount of gold, abandon it in a private game, and import a perfect KSOH bastard sword or perfect AFP with a level 28+ character. You are eliminating no risks from the game at all... only saving the tedium of several thousand shopping runs. I think everyone would consider the last case a form of blatant cheating, and therefor any form of tedium reduction involving third party programs is grey area at best. The exception would reduction of tedium in things outside of the game, e.g. using a trainer to reduce the tedium of manual character backup.
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05-06-2006, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2006 03:49 AM by NatNit.)
Post: #22
Muling in Diablo
You bring up some compelling arguments Nystul.

I tend to use this program rather excessively, and I've been debating its legitness (in my own mind, since ultimately that's what matters) and I've come to the conclusion that as long as I don't abuse it, all will be fine. I currently use it to hold things I would normally mule, and to facillitate transport between characters, and if I had a second computer, I could do most of that just as easily.

Moving town people about though... I really hadn't considered it an unfair advantage before, but it might be. Perhaps if one is going to "surf" Adria or wirt, they should do so at their original locations, but if it's just a simple visit as part of a game, it's fine to use a modified position. Not sure whether to consider such a modification "cheating" or not. :)

~NatNit~

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NaughtyNat(LoL) - LoL Rogue (12)
FuzzyNat(LEM) - Lemming (11)
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05-07-2006, 03:33 PM
Post: #23
Muling in Diablo
In my opinion, as long as this utility is only used when you would normally mule something I find it perfectly legit. I may even go as far to only use this utility with a mule character. For which I would first transfer the items to the mule and then store them. Of course this program could be easily abused with a LOL charactr or the like, but then again what fun is playing a variant if you dont play by the rules.
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05-07-2006, 05:00 PM
Post: #24
Muling in Diablo
Ulmo,May 3 2006, 11:50 AM Wrote:Update with minor corrections :
*Better formatting on the item-type screens (?)
*Update mag required for books
*Items menu shouldn't stop scrolling

Ulmo,

I think I'm running into another bug here, but I'm not entirely sure...

Last night I did a few Laz runs, and left Gillian with a few odds
and ends that I like to use sometimes, but always end up selling
to Griswold or just tossing aside (you know, stuff like Naj's Light
Plate and Gotterdamerung). Anyways, I also decided to keep a few
of the more 'mundane' items, like an emerald/tiger sheild, and
I asked good ol' Griswold to repair these things before I dropped
them off at the barmaid's house. Griswold quoted me an exorbitant
repair price (something over $4k) but seeing as I was flush with
gold, I paid the man his price without haggling. And then the repair
menu showed the sheild still needed repair! I paid again. And
once again, it STILL needed repair. At this point my goodwill had
faded away and I threw the money at the greedy b*st*rd and
cursed him for the thieving cad he was. FINALLY, the sheild was
repaired, and I left Griswold's shop fuming at the evils of fly-by-night
repairmen (did I mention I've been having car trouble recently?
I hate when art, er, Gaming immitates Life...)

So Ulmo, can you look into this mysterious non-repair issue?
I'd never seen it before I started using DiabloStash. Or has
anyone else had warranty problems with Griswold before...?

Krishta

Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
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05-07-2006, 06:06 PM
Post: #25
Muling in Diablo
Quoted from the wonderful Diablo v1.09 buglist hosted at a site called The Lurker Lounge:

"Occasionally Griswold will charge you for repairing an item and yet not repair it, forcing you to have to pay for repairs again, and possibly multiple times."

I've had this happen to me plenty of times, and it always seems to involve a particularly expensive repair (or maybe that's just the times that the brain remembers, heh). Bug in the game, not the program.
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05-08-2006, 12:29 AM
Post: #26
Muling in Diablo
I don't really care if it is cheating or not, it's up to you to decide if you use it or not.
About duping (stash main cheating possibility) :
There are already many ways of duping items, and even if I make it a little easier, I still consider the stash beeing more comfortable than using mule characters.
Anyway, I'm ready to add functionnality to help prevent dupping. I already check if the items you want to take back is already on your character (in inventory or equipped). I could add a check when you deposit an item (don't allow if item is already in stash).

I also had the following ideas (none beeing perfect) :
*Have a stash per character, and a CRC value based on character stored in stash to prevent giving old stash to more recent character. [But I think that sharing items is an important part of this plug-in]
*Have a counter (or CRC value for beeing less readible, but it's the same idea) attached to the stash file, and store it in some registry. This way I could detect if the stash loaded isn't the lastest saved. [But what happens if you reinstall Diablo and want to use old save files ? You will loose your stash]

Anyway my final thought is the following : if you abuse the stash system (dupe books/elixirs, give powerful items to new characters, ...), you will loose fun. Diablo isn't a competition, it's only entertaining (opposed to Starcraft or so).

Quote:* Although I think it would be nice to be able to choose which way to sort the items for each player's preference; ie. alphabeticly, chronologicly...

*I would also enjoy having a seperate menu option to browse uniques for those of us who want to build a unique archive of our own.
Both options will be added in a next version.
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05-08-2006, 12:36 AM
Post: #27
Muling in Diablo
Heya Ulmo,

It had nothing to do with calling your work "cheating" at all. All you've done is create an amazing resource for the packrats out there. And to that, I really owe you a lot. :) But cheaters can take advantage of the game at almost every level, and the stash system doesn't really add any significant ability to cheat, even if the user wanted to. Bravo. I'm quite the current number of checks are fine, without having to delve into people's registries. You have to trust people to some degree.

* Maybe in future version, a character can have his own stash, as well as access to a communal stash. In some ini file somewhere, you can decide which characters get access to which. (Kinda complicated wording, for something that shouldn't be horrible, implementation-wise)

* Perhaps a re-work of how the gold is currently handled. Perhaps a dialog box more akin to rightclicking a pile of gold. So you could type an amount of gold to deposit/take. This seems like it would be harder to implement, and maybe not worth it, but an idea nonetheless.

--NatNit

~NatNit~

NatAmused(LoL) - LoL Mage (26)
NaughtyNat(LoL) - LoL Rogue (12)
FuzzyNat(LEM) - Lemming (11)
NatNit - Arty Sorc (36)
NakeyNat(NM) - Naked Mage (14)
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05-08-2006, 04:45 AM
Post: #28
Muling in Diablo
Hey Ulmo, I found a lil "bug".. well, not really a bug, but a very very minor issue - and an interestin thing to look at.

You see, my computer has more than one CD drive - there's the D drive (the main CD drive my computer came with), and then there's the E drive (the CD drive/burner I installed a few months ago). Now, I can play Diablo on either CD drive, but, I tend to prefer the E drive due to the fact that it's faster. Now, regular Diablo recognizes both drives and "knows" if I have the Diablo CD in either, and so do the mods (Abysmal Diablo, etc), but apparently, the Diablo stash loader does not. So I am always forced to run the CD off the D drive everytime I play Diablo with your stash prog on. This is not really much of a problem, as I can easily live with it, but I do think it's an interestin thing to look at (especially for people who have a broken D drive and their E drive is the only thing left workin).

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05-08-2006, 10:00 AM
Post: #29
Muling in Diablo
Force,May 8 2006, 05:45 AM Wrote:[CD not recognized when in wrong drive][right][snapback]109205[/snapback][/right]
It certainly has to do with CD protection. You can either :
  • Change the drive used in registry :
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Blizzard Entertainment\Archives\DiabloCD
    using RegEdit<>
  • Set :
    Disable_CD_protection=NO
    in PlugUlmo.ini and use any CD drive<>
  • Copy DiabDat.MPQ from CD to Diablo's directory, and set
    Disable_CD_protection=YES
    use_DIABDAT_from_HD=YES
    in PlugUlmo.ini, and use no CD anymore.<>
    [st]
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05-08-2006, 06:05 PM
Post: #30
Muling in Diablo
I tried this with Diablo 1.09 and 1.07 and it seemed to work flawlessly. However, then I extracted the zip file to my Hellfire folder, eliminated references to Diablo exe as the executable file replacing it with the Hellfire one and still got the following message in the Ulmo log:

Start Loader
Mon May 08 01:58:35 2006

exe_file = Diablo.exe
Can't load Process
The system cannot find the file specified.

Exiting

Any suggestions?
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05-08-2006, 07:57 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2006 08:00 PM by Ulmo.)
Post: #31
Muling in Diablo
Thenryb,May 8 2006, 07:05 PM Wrote:I extracted the zip file to my Hellfire folder, eliminated references to Diablo exe as the executable file replacing it with the Hellfire one :
Start Loader
exe_file = Diablo.exe
Can't load Process
[right][snapback]109241[/snapback][/right]
"diablo.exe" is the default value of "exe_file". You may have an error in the key name, or having placed it in wrong section (it must be in the [Loader] section).
I suspect that "exe_file =..." is a different keyname than "exe_file=..." (the extra space).
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05-09-2006, 02:49 AM
Post: #32
Muling in Diablo
Ulmo,May 8 2006, 07:57 PM Wrote:"diablo.exe" is the default value of "exe_file". You may have an error in the key name, or having placed it in wrong section (it must be in the [Loader] section).
I suspect that "exe_file =..." is a different keyname than "exe_file=..." (the extra space).
[right][snapback]109249[/snapback][/right]

Thanks-got it working:)
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05-09-2006, 02:59 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2006 03:02 AM by the Langolier.)
Post: #33
Muling in Diablo
A was showing an old friend the Dark forums not long ago and talking about what is going on with the active D1 community (he has since moved on, but I've been the wiser). The funniest part was that I was telling him about a mock "private stash" screenshot I created with some very small hex edits. I was quite astonished when the first post in the modding section was "stash for diablo" ... "It's working!". I just about fell over.

BTW Here's the screenshot:
[Image: p-stash.gif]

I think it is kind of funny that people are worried this will be used for duping/cheating. Why would I load this thing when I can walk up to the item with a potion? It is even easier for malicious users to use a trainer to export your items in a game. No no, this feature is about the best D2 to D1 port available.

The biggest concern of course is that now characters can have virtually a "limitless" inventory. But is this really that influential? As for my characters, they have their main gear equipped and carry a couple alternate items in their pack. For my rogue, this would be a sword/CC/shield (so ~40% of my inventory including gold/whatever). The rest is empty, and for what? Item drops. I really don't see anywhere that "extra" inventory space would be helpful for normal gameplay. I am not going to go to town and cycle through a list of items at a "stash" just to equip some alternate gear, and I will still only be able to pick up a limited number of drops before I need to go ID them. I think it would be most useful not only for transferring, but also storing specialized setups such as item retriving gear and dueling equipment.

I can't wait until I have Diablo and everything reinstalled so I can try it out. Also, does it need to be loaded up everytime you start Diablo?

--Lang

Diabolic Psyche - the site with Diablo on the Brain!
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05-09-2006, 11:56 AM
Post: #34
Muling in Diablo
Hi,

"Storage space is limited in Diablo II both for performance and storage space issues and because the designers wanted players to make decisions as to which items to keep and which items must be thrown away or sold."

- The Arreat Summit, on item basics.

I know that that refers to DII, and I resort to muling in DII and rarely in DI, too. But I can see very well how the game designers integrated this feature to keep up the degree of difficulty for the games.
Imagine a DII with complex runewords, when you can't trade for runes.
A DI where you find that Savage LWB of Heavens with your warrior, and can't give it to your rogue.
It's a p.i.t.a., but it increases difficulty, indeed! In that cases, you'd sometimes sell these items, as good as they may be, to gain space for something more character-relevant.
Also, I think it's not so much about the things you can carry in your inventory, when you're down in the dungeons. It's about the things you can carry over to your next game. These are severely limited. I have often wished that the items on the ground were saved, too.

Greetings, Fragbait

the Langolier,May 9 2006, 03:59 AM Wrote:The biggest concern of course is that now characters can have virtually a "limitless" inventory.&nbsp; But is this really that influential?&nbsp; As for my characters, they have their main gear equipped and carry a couple alternate items in their pack.&nbsp; For my rogue, this would be a sword/CC/shield (so ~40% of my inventory including gold/whatever).&nbsp; The rest is empty, and for what?&nbsp; Item drops.&nbsp; I really don't see anywhere that "extra" inventory space would be helpful for normal gameplay.&nbsp; I am not going to go to town and cycle through a list of items at a "stash" just to equip some alternate gear, and I will still only be able to pick up a limited number of drops before I need to go ID them.&nbsp; I think it would be most useful not only for transferring, but also storing specialized setups such as&nbsp; item retriving gear and dueling equipment.[right][snapback]109288[/snapback][/right]

Quote:You cannot pass... I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. The Dark Flame will not avail you, Flame of Udun. Go back to the shadow. You shall not pass.
- Gandalf, speaking to the Balrog

Quote:Empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow, or it can crash! Be water, my friend...
- Bruce Lee

Quote: There's an old Internet adage which simply states that the first person to resort to personal attacks in an online argument is the loser. Don't be one.
- excerpt from the forum rules

Post content property of Fragbait (member of the lurkerlounge). Do not (hesitate to) quote without permission.
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05-09-2006, 12:36 PM
Post: #35
Muling in Diablo
sweet program, got it working on my first try :) it saves some mule time for sure.

bit ot here but... is PlugY for open only? (i suppose it is) i haven't seen that prog tho, could someone maybe give me a link?

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05-11-2006, 11:50 AM
Post: #36
Muling in Diablo
Nice work Ulmo.... I got the "255 mag Book Bug" when i buy a charged bolt book from Adria. I have 13 lv CB and the magic requirements i guess was 192 mag or something. It happend on 2 situations, buying the book and from a monster drop also.

Informations:
Diablo 1.07 - Windows 98 SE - playing from HD - Pentium 166.

And a sugestion, just put a option on deposit item "Deposit All" and a "Withdraw All" in the "Gold" filter saves time making bank movements :P .

And Thank you very much for this tool!!!

"All I ask is the chance to prove that money can't make me happy!"
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05-12-2006, 09:07 AM
Post: #37
Muling in Diablo
Update with 1 minor correction :
"when Gillian ask you "Are you sure you want to take/deposit this", if you click NO, the action will be the same as YES."
the Langolier,May 9 2006, 03:59 AM Wrote:The funniest part was that I was telling him about a mock "private stash" screenshot I created with some very small hex edits.&nbsp; I was quite astonished when the first post in the modding section was "stash for diablo" ... "It's working!".&nbsp; I just about fell over.[right][snapback]109288[/snapback][/right]
I remind your scrennshot well. I was very influenced by it when I choosed how to implement the stash.

the Langolier,May 9 2006, 03:59 AM Wrote:Also, does it need to be loaded up everytime you start Diablo?[right][snapback]109288[/snapback][/right]
Use the loader instead of Diablo.exe, nothing more needed.

Fragbait,May 9 2006, 12:56 PM Wrote:"Storage space is limited in Diablo II both for performance and storage space issues and because the designers wanted players to make decisions as to which items to keep and which items must be thrown away or sold."[right][snapback]109322[/snapback][/right]
I'm aware of it. But there are workaround to this limited storage issue : using mules (useless character who store items, exchange via multiplayer games), and using character editor which enable to export/import items. I propose here a more comfortable way to do it. I don't claim that Diablo should be played like this.

Spinal,May 9 2006, 01:36 PM Wrote:bit ot here but... is PlugY for open only? (i suppose it is) i haven't seen that prog tho, could someone maybe give me a link?[right][snapback]109328[/snapback][/right]
You mean PlugY for D2 ? See the dedicaced forum on PhrozenKeep.

jaderanderson,May 11 2006, 12:50 PM Wrote:Nice work Ulmo.... I got the "255 mag Book Bug" when i buy a charged bolt book from Adria. I have 13 lv CB and the magic requirements i guess was 192 mag or something. It happend on 2 situations, buying the book and from a monster drop also.[right][snapback]109589[/snapback][/right]
If I understand correctly what you say, I have nothing to do with this bug. I don't interfere with Adria sales, neither with drops.
The problem was the following : Mag req for books are adapted to your character when needed (before Adria show them to you, or when you pick them up). I forgot to update when showing stash content, so when you deposit a CB book with a character of lvl 15CB, the book appeared "mag req 255" for all chars. This should be corrected now.

jaderanderson,May 11 2006, 12:50 PM Wrote:And a sugestion, just put a option on deposit item "Deposit All" and a "Withdraw All" in the "Gold" filter saves time making bank movements&nbsp; :P .[right][snapback]109589[/snapback][/right]
I'll consider this, but I'm not sure it's a good idea (I don't know why, but I don't like it).
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05-12-2006, 11:57 AM
Post: #38
Muling in Diablo
Ulmo,May 12 2006, 09:07 AM Wrote:You mean PlugY for D2 ? See the dedicaced forum on PhrozenKeep.
yeah, thanks for the link Ulmo :) I fall in love with the prog you made for d1, so it would be fun to use it when i play d2 too ;)

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05-13-2006, 01:02 PM
Post: #39
Muling in Diablo
diablo 1 has no stash ..cheating
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05-13-2006, 03:15 PM
Post: #40
Muling in Diablo
skana,May 13 2006, 08:02 AM Wrote:diablo 1 has no stash ..cheating
[right][snapback]109781[/snapback][/right]

I agree, this game never intended to have a stash.. but how exactly is this "cheatin?". It is simply a more efficient way of mulin. No offense (bah, who cares if it offends you? I don't even like you anyway), but you sound like some kinda cult-freak who chants out "cheater" the moment he reads about somethin different, like some medieval nut who chants out "witch!" the moment he sees some lady beat up a man. Not everythin new or 3rd-party is cheatin; yes, most unfortunately happen to be (or can easily be used in such a way), but not 'all'. I just simply do not see how this lil stash is much different from mules - you could just as easily do somethin with the mule files for infinite items (not describin the method - I don't want new players readin about such); this program doesn't seem any different. You're just a very shallow, narrow-minded person. Good day.

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Sorcerer: Force_11.06.04.
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