A Warrior Destined For Hell

[Ashock]

>As far as BOTD being a kiddie weapon.... In Bnet play, you can't play a Barb like you would in solo, scattering mobs all over the place. Sorcs and others get pissed off.
Well yeah. I agree with you if you mean there are builds and skills that loses or gains their strength depending on the type of setting, solo or multi. But in the context of the original topic and poster (he sounds like he's playing mostly solo offline SP), what's the beef exactly?

I don't have a beef with anything. I was replying to a post suggesting that a BOTD is a kiddie weapon. That to me is basically like saying that a King's/anything is a kiddie weapon in D1. Damn harder to get, of course.


-A

[Hammerskjold]

>I don't have a beef with anything. I was replying to a post suggesting that a BOTD is a kiddie weapon. That to me is basically like saying that a King's/anything is a kiddie weapon in D1. Damn harder to get, of course.

Ah then if we're talking strictly about BotD, then let me kvetch on the subject.

To me a BotD is more like a D1 'rare' Godly plate of the Whale with all 3 (identical rings even) ObZod jewelry rolled into one, topped with a side order of Gnarled Root helm. Except made 'real', and yes a lot damn harder to get than any King's weapon like you said. It's like bliz looked at the worst ideas that was generated from D1, and thought it would be super awesome to do in D2 (eg: balance by rarity). And let's forget and ignore some of what D1 did right and amazingly well (hard to find things don't automatically mean=uberl33t).

And no, I've never actually used a real BotD, the only way I could experience it first hand without wasting a lifetime cubing up to a ZOD or trading was by using test chars via the cube mod in SP. But aside from the test Conviction\Avenger that rocked the mic and rocked the mic hard with an Ethereal Archon BotD staff, I was actually a bit underwhelmed by it. Especially in the light of the changes that 1.10+ brought. (even that Convict\Avenger still had to be careful in Hell\Flayer jungle, otherwise yes with that ethBotd l33t staff he Avenged anything and everything he saw with a fair amount of comfort and ease.)

However raw diggity physical damage for PvM is not what it once was in 1.10+. Even with the whacked out monster immunities, elemental\magic damage seems to be the way to go. Most of the melee builds I've seen that can do well damage wise in 1.10x PvM usually revolves around IAS speed, a high elemental damage and ctc effects, physical or another type as a secondary\tertiary backup, and something to halt some of the ridicilous monster HP regen rate (PMH, poison, OpenWounds).

My 'real' concentrator was retired at clvl 32, but I did try out almost all the popular (and not so popular) builds and gears for all classes via mid-high level test chars, and what I found was when it comes to melee builds, I'm addicted to speed. What killed my last high level test Berserker barb wasn't his lack of damage, it was his lack of speed dishing it out. I could slap on an eBotD, and it's a safe bet with it's 60% IAS it's botd for t3h w1n! But by that point I wasn't interested in trying out an Enzo Ferrari. I was more interested in finding a more relatively affordable alternative, you know like a Mustang. Though for some people anything less than a ZOD is relatively affordable I guess. I'm not one of those people.

BotD has imo, 4 awesome mods. The 60% IAS, high ED%, dual Life\Mana steal, and indestructibility for those ethereal l33ts. The rest of the mods is just gravy, rich and tasty gravy to be sure, but still just gravy imo. The PNova is actually more of an annoyance for me. The question for me is not, is it powerful, to me it's more is it worth the price of a ZOD plus change VEX in 1.10+ (I'm not talking about trading, I'm talking about the price of assembling it). For my money it's not. But considering the practical chance of finding\cubing up the runes, I might as well lose more sleep over choosing which residence to buy, Windsor castle or Buckingham palace.


My own biased view is one of the spiritual descendants of the D1 Kings weapon is, I said it before, the 'Crescent Moon' runeword. Decent enough IAS, fair to decent ED%, berry berry nice CtC Static Field, and 25% chance for Open Wounds. It's not a BotD, but it's a versatile and fairly affordable mid to end game weapon. Definitely endgame weapon if you're solo or SP, unless you're persistent or lucky in Nightmare. If we're going with the Ladder-Only runewords, then 'Obedience' and 'Oath' are also in the runnings in the fairly affordable high physical dmg weapon. (Alright 'Oath' might be in the higher end, but still within the realm of the probable).

What makes BotD labelled a 'kiddie' weapon imo, and this isn't the first time I've heard it called something like that, is mostly that pesky ZOD. Most l33t dudes (not you, I mean the people like Librarian mentioned who either don't care or unscruplous enough make these kind of it4mz from duped runes for online ladder) sees the highest rune, and therefore assumes it must be the best runeword because it uses one of the highest rune. Can't say I blame them since bliz did buy into that whole concept of 'balance by rarity' lock stock for quite a while. The need for a 6 socket weapon only fuels that expectation. Any 6 sockets weapons? VEX & ZOD?! This must be good to justify that kind of cost!

If it was half as good as some of the hype I've read from so called 'guides' = impractical wish list, my Act 2 merc would've cleaned up with it during my tests. But I found 'Doom' to be a better fit for him most of the time. Not that it really matters in actual real gameplay though, since the price of 'Doom' isn't much better than BotD. So imo, ZOD + the hype that tries to sell BotD as the absolute best under all circumstances is what makes it a kiddie-ish it4m. Which is why, to wrap up my rambling rant, some of the hype surrounding a BotD reminds me of the D1 days of some people claiming that a 3 set of Obzod jewels is the best setup possible, or why DemonSpike Coat is the highest AC armor in the game, because it's got 100 AC and that Unique gold lettering.

[Ashock]

>I don't have a beef with anything. I was replying to a post suggesting that a BOTD is a kiddie weapon. That to me is basically like saying that a King's/anything is a kiddie weapon in D1. Damn harder to get, of course.

Ah then if we're talking strictly about BotD, then let me kvetch on the subject.

To me a BotD is more like a D1 'rare' Godly plate of the Whale with all 3 (identical rings even) ObZod jewelry rolled into one, topped with a side order of Gnarled Root helm. Except made 'real', and yes a lot damn harder to get than any King's weapon like you said. It's like bliz looked at the worst ideas that was generated from D1, and thought it would be super awesome to do in D2 (eg: balance by rarity). And let's forget and ignore some of what D1 did right and amazingly well (hard to find things don't automatically mean=uberl33t).

And no, I've never actually used a real BotD, the only way I could experience it first hand without wasting a lifetime cubing up to a ZOD or trading was by using test chars via the cube mod in SP. But aside from the test Conviction\Avenger that rocked the mic and rocked the mic hard with an Ethereal Archon BotD staff, I was actually a bit underwhelmed by it. Especially in the light of the changes that 1.10+ brought. (even that Convict\Avenger still had to be careful in Hell\Flayer jungle, otherwise yes with that ethBotd l33t staff he Avenged anything and everything he saw with a fair amount of comfort and ease.)

However raw diggity physical damage for PvM is not what it once was in 1.10+. Even with the whacked out monster immunities, elemental\magic damage seems to be the way to go. Most of the melee builds I've seen that can do well damage wise in 1.10x PvM usually revolves around IAS speed, a high elemental damage and ctc effects, physical or another type as a secondary\tertiary backup, and something to halt some of the ridicilous monster HP regen rate (PMH, poison, OpenWounds).

My 'real' concentrator was retired at clvl 32, but I did try out almost all the popular (and not so popular) builds and gears for all classes via mid-high level test chars, and what I found was when it comes to melee builds, I'm addicted to speed. What killed my last high level test Berserker barb wasn't his lack of damage, it was his lack of speed dishing it out. I could slap on an eBotD, and it's a safe bet with it's 60% IAS it's botd for t3h w1n! But by that point I wasn't interested in trying out an Enzo Ferrari. I was more interested in finding a more relatively affordable alternative, you know like a Mustang. Though for some people anything less than a ZOD is relatively affordable I guess. I'm not one of those people.

BotD has imo, 4 awesome mods. The 60% IAS, high ED%, dual Life\Mana steal, and indestructibility for those ethereal l33ts. The rest of the mods is just gravy, rich and tasty gravy to be sure, but still just gravy imo. The PNova is actually more of an annoyance for me. The question for me is not, is it powerful, to me it's more is it worth the price of a ZOD plus change VEX in 1.10+ (I'm not talking about trading, I'm talking about the price of assembling it). For my money it's not. But considering the practical chance of finding\cubing up the runes, I might as well lose more sleep over choosing which residence to buy, Windsor castle or Buckingham palace.
My own biased view is one of the spiritual descendants of the D1 Kings weapon is, I said it before, the 'Crescent Moon' runeword. Decent enough IAS, fair to decent ED%, berry berry nice CtC Static Field, and 25% chance for Open Wounds. It's not a BotD, but it's a versatile and fairly affordable mid to end game weapon. Definitely endgame weapon if you're solo or SP, unless you're persistent or lucky in Nightmare. If we're going with the Ladder-Only runewords, then 'Obedience' and 'Oath' are also in the runnings in the fairly affordable high physical dmg weapon. (Alright 'Oath' might be in the higher end, but still within the realm of the probable).

What makes BotD labelled a 'kiddie' weapon imo, and this isn't the first time I've heard it called something like that, is mostly that pesky ZOD. Most l33t dudes (not you, I mean the people like Librarian mentioned who either don't care or unscruplous enough make these kind of it4mz from duped runes for online ladder) sees the highest rune, and therefore assumes it must be the best runeword because it uses one of the highest rune. Can't say I blame them since bliz did buy into that whole concept of 'balance by rarity' lock stock for quite a while. The need for a 6 socket weapon only fuels that expectation. Any 6 sockets weapons? VEX & ZOD?! This must be good to justify that kind of cost!

If it was half as good as some of the hype I've read from so called 'guides' = impractical wish list, my Act 2 merc would've cleaned up with it during my tests. But I found 'Doom' to be a better fit for him most of the time. Not that it really matters in actual real gameplay though, since the price of 'Doom' isn't much better than BotD. So imo, ZOD + the hype that tries to sell BotD as the absolute best under all circumstances is what makes it a kiddie-ish it4m. Which is why, to wrap up my rambling rant, some of the hype surrounding a BotD reminds me of the D1 days of some people claiming that a 3 set of Obzod jewels is the best setup possible, or why DemonSpike Coat is the highest AC armor in the game, because it's got 100 AC and that Unique gold lettering.

Let me put it this way. After experimenting with other builds along the way here and there, I realized a long time ago that the only fun Barb at least to me is a WW Barb. Concentrate is incredibly boring and completely unplayable in MP and if you go Frenzy, you might as well get yourself a Zealot, which is what I did. For a WW Barb, BOTD is by far the best weapon and the only one that makes a Barb viable in Hell MP. Around the end of 2002, I was saturated with the game already, so even when I did come back to it for several months at a time, I always dual-wielded even if it were less efficient... Before 1.10, you could still play perfectly fine without a BOTD, which is what I did, although in 1.09 it was already not a cakewalk. Once 1.10 rolled around, it was BOTD or go home, so I had 2 BOTDs just for the feel of it. Sometimes in a full game I would one of them away. As far as Zods.... bleh. I cared about that stuff in D1 and in fact all my warriors in D1 were completely pure from start to finish. D2 is different and besides, if by far the most fun I could have was using a weapon requiring a Zod, so be it. The rest of the ingredients (including Etherial CBs) were always found by me or cubed several times by me, and the Zod..... whatever.

However, my arguments to the OP pertained to either 1 or 2 weapons. I realize that I gimped myself by using 2, but my opinion is based on experience of using either combo. The only experience I do not have with Barbs is that of a singing Barb.... and I had no desire to try it..... ever.


-A

[Hammerskjold]

>Let me put it this way. After experimenting with other builds along the way here and there, I realized a long time ago that the only fun Barb at least to me is a WW Barb.

I'm not disputing your or anyone else's personal preference and experience, I'm talking about the relevance of it, mostly in the context of a solo\sp\notwink Concentrator w\shield. You brought up an excellent point regarding the potential trouble of Hell Mode for most melee builds. That's incredibly relevant. What you or I personally find enjoyable, probably not so much.

>For a WW Barb, BOTD is by far the best weapon and the only one that makes a Barb viable in Hell MP.

Again, considering we're talking about a 1h Concentrator in solo SP, that has little to no bearing on the debate. But for what it's worth, although I disagree that a BotD is the best and only weapon for a WWinder, I don't for a second dispute that a Whirler needs a raw heavy damage weapon not only to kill but to leach, so he won't run out of gas in order to whirl, so he could survive. Especially since WW doesn't work with CtC effects iirc.

But in the context of a solo 1h Concentrator, he's probably better served with a fast weapon that has CtC AoE effects, to compensate for his 1 on 1 attack style and lack of raw damage. A Schaeffer like you mentioned, or Crescent Moon or a LawBringer might be a better fit. Out of the 3, iirc only Schaeffer and CMoon is potentially available to him as an endgame weapon, since he's not in Online Ladder.

> I cared about that stuff in D1 and in fact all my warriors in D1 were completely pure from start to finish.

So was mine. Not out of any need to get an 'ultra pure super l3git eagle scout' badge or anything silly like that. If anything I was too lazy to trade even between my own chars.

> D2 is different and besides, if by far the most fun I could have was using a weapon requiring a Zod, so be it.

Unless you're talking about Open Realms or a test char situation, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Mostly because (at least imo) of how little it applies to the original topic, I think if we start throwing out very high end items like BotD, or me mentioning an Act2 Merc is powerful when kitted out with a Doom weapon and clad in a Chains of Honour, we might as well be talking about a different game. Because in a lot of ways it is a different one than what the original poster is playing.

I'll readily admit I myself don't play the game in 'stock' form much nowadays. I'm mostly into mods or offline sp with the runes. txt file enabled. I'm tired of seeing bliz patches putting most of my chars into a coma, so while I disagree with you on the ZOD, I think I see where you're coming from. Especially if you had a high level char that got hit with 'improvement' during the change to 1.10. My lvl 80 1.09 Martyr got Schiavoed in 1.10. But hey I guess I should thank my lucky stars my Martyr didn't get improved the way the Amazon's Immolation arrow did. Bliz sure made an example out of her on that one.

[MonTy]

Hail all,

Just wanted to give an update. So far I've cleared every part of act one through three in nightmare. Monty was able to handle any mess of monsters or boss with relative ease. No real danger to his life pool, and he has been able to strike down regular monsters with one to three hits on average. Although I must admit that his ease and success in the battlefield is probably due to my luck with gambling the high damage one-handed rare sword, and then upgrading it to a exceptional version. Before I acquired that sword I found it took quite a while with my previous gear to vanquish enemies in nightmare. I was lucky enough to be forewarned by many of you that advancing to Hell is not a matter of using strategies and leveling up, but instead mostly finding the right gear or already having it. In my case I don't have any gear to give this character, and I'm seeing that playing legit can be quite a grind (although I came back from World of Warcraft, so Blizzard already polished my grinding skills). None the less, I am still enjoying the game and I will certainly finish playing with my original goals.

I do not plan on jumping into Hell blindly and unprepared. If it requires me to do a bit of item hunting before I achieve my goal, then so bet it. If I have to get up to Hell / Countess and spend a month killing Hell Countess / NM Baal / NM Mephisto, I will. I don't mind picking up the game for 20 to 30 minutes and doing boss runs, it's relaxing from my daily life. I realized this game would be sort of an item hunt ( I admit more so than I expected), so after I get up to the Countess in Hell I'll be in item hunt mode.

With that, I wanted to ask everyone what they thought would be achievable if I do a week or two worth of item hunting, and what would be the best way to approach doing that. I can play about twenty hours a week, so I'm trying to figure out what my odds are of obtaining high-end runes in that period of time, although math is not my forte. I have been reading up on similar Barbarian builds, and I'm trying to get an idea of what my gear should be like in Hell. Although a lot of those builds ask for certain elite unique items which I can not plan on finding.

Thanks again for all the comments everyone, I really appreciate it.

-MonTy

[MonTy]

Hail Hammerskjold,

But in the context of a solo 1h Concentrator, he's probably better served with a fast weapon that has CtC AoE effects, to compensate for his 1 on 1 attack style and lack of raw damage. A Schaeffer like you mentioned, or Crescent Moon or a LawBringer might be a better fit. Out of the 3, iirc only Schaeffer and CMoon is potentially available to him as an endgame weapon, since he's not in Online Ladder.

I didn't even think of a CtC AoE weapon, that's great idea. I'll be sure to look into it. Unfortunately Crescent Moon is the only weapon available to me (I only use swords, so Schaeffer is out), but CMoon looks very fitting to my play style. Even more so since I'm using War Cry over Howl (monsters will be around to get hit by my AoE rather than fleeing). I'll look into my odds of getting a "Um" rune and those three socket exceptional / elite swords.

I'll readily admit I myself don't play the game in 'stock' form much nowadays. I'm mostly into mods or offline sp with the runes. txt file enabled. I'm tired of seeing bliz patches putting most of my chars into a coma, so while I disagree with you on the ZOD, I think I see where you're coming from. Especially if you had a high level char that got hit with 'improvement' during the change to 1.10. My lvl 80 1.09 Martyr got Schiavoed in 1.10. But hey I guess I should thank my lucky stars my Martyr didn't get improved the way the Amazon's Immolation arrow did. Bliz sure made an example out of her on that one.

This is purely the reason why I don't play RPGs when they first come out. I really dislike the idea of my character changing. I could only imagine how fustrating it would be if I spent the time and effort geting my guy up to level 85+ only to have his strategy changed. I'm extremely against using character editors, but if that happend I might allow myself to re-destribute my skill points (like a WoW Respec). But it doesn't seem like they are going to overhaul Diablo 2 anytime soon.

-MonTy

[Ashock]

I do not plan on jumping into Hell blindly and unprepared. If it requires me to do a bit of item hunting before I achieve my goal, then so bet it. If I have to get up to Hell / Countess and spend a month killing Hell Countess / NM Baal / NM Mephisto, I will. I don't mind picking up the game for 20 to 30 minutes and doing boss runs, it's relaxing from my daily life. I realized this game would be sort of an item hunt ( I admit more so than I expected), so after I get up to the Countess in Hell I'll be in item hunt mode.

-MonTy

Hell/Countess is not really viable for farming unless you are high lvl and have good gear. She herself is nothing, but getting to her is a real chore. The bow rogues are a real PITA and so are the mana burn/phys immune ghosts. Stick to Nite/Baal as he can drop some decent elite uniques. Since you do not WW, you can really benefit from a low elite unique 1-hander. It'll be difficult to get it, but not impossible. Another possibility is to try farming one of the crypts next to Blood Raven. I think the one called the Mausoleum is the one that has very high lvl monsters (like the highest in the game) and it is way easier to do than running the Countess.


GL, you'll need it.



-A

>Let me put it this way. After experimenting with other builds along the way here and there, I realized a long time ago that the only fun Barb at least to me is a WW Barb.

I'm not disputing your or anyone else's personal preference and experience, I'm talking about the relevance of it, mostly in the context of a solo\sp\notwink Concentrator w\shield. You brought up an excellent point regarding the potential trouble of Hell Mode for most melee builds. That's incredibly relevant. What you or I personally find enjoyable, probably not so much.

>For a WW Barb, BOTD is by far the best weapon and the only one that makes a Barb viable in Hell MP.

Again, considering we're talking about a 1h Concentrator in solo SP, that has little to no bearing on the debate. But for what it's worth, although I disagree that a BotD is the best and only weapon for a WWinder, I don't for a second dispute that a Whirler needs a raw heavy damage weapon not only to kill but to leach, so he won't run out of gas in order to whirl, so he could survive. Especially since WW doesn't work with CtC effects iirc.

But in the context of a solo 1h Concentrator, he's probably better served with a fast weapon that has CtC AoE effects, to compensate for his 1 on 1 attack style and lack of raw damage. A Schaeffer like you mentioned, or Crescent Moon or a LawBringer might be a better fit. Out of the 3, iirc only Schaeffer and CMoon is potentially available to him as an endgame weapon, since he's not in Online Ladder.

> I cared about that stuff in D1 and in fact all my warriors in D1 were completely pure from start to finish.

So was mine. Not out of any need to get an 'ultra pure super l3git eagle scout' badge or anything silly like that. If anything I was too lazy to trade even between my own chars.

> D2 is different and besides, if by far the most fun I could have was using a weapon requiring a Zod, so be it.

Unless you're talking about Open Realms or a test char situation, then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Mostly because (at least imo) of how little it applies to the original topic, I think if we start throwing out very high end items like BotD, or me mentioning an Act2 Merc is powerful when kitted out with a Doom weapon and clad in a Chains of Honour, we might as well be talking about a different game. Because in a lot of ways it is a different one than what the original poster is playing.

I'll readily admit I myself don't play the game in 'stock' form much nowadays. I'm mostly into mods or offline sp with the runes. txt file enabled. I'm tired of seeing bliz patches putting most of my chars into a coma, so while I disagree with you on the ZOD, I think I see where you're coming from. Especially if you had a high level char that got hit with 'improvement' during the change to 1.10. My lvl 80 1.09 Martyr got Schiavoed in 1.10. But hey I guess I should thank my lucky stars my Martyr didn't get improved the way the Amazon's Immolation arrow did. Bliz sure made an example out of her on that one.

You are right. When we start talking high-end rune words, it is no longer the same game. However, it is the only real viable option for a Barb.



-A

[Assur]

It'll be difficult to get it, but not impossible. Another possibility is to try farming one of the crypts next to Blood Raven. I think the one called the Mausoleum is the one that has very high lvl monsters (like the highest in the game) and it is way easier to do than running the Countess.
GL, you'll need it.
-A

Good places early in Hell are the Mausoleum and the Pit in the Tamo Highlands. Here is a thread about the relative advantages.

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...=0&#entry504166

good luck

[Ashock]

Good places early in Hell are the Mausoleum and the Pit in the Tamo Highlands. Here is a thread about the relative advantages.

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...=0&#entry504166

good luck

The Pit is significantly tougher than the Mausoleum as the Rogues there are very fast and can kill easily. I think for a pure Barb, it is too tough and not worth it, at least for a while.


-A

[Occhidiangela]

The Pit is significantly tougher than the Mausoleum as the Rogues there are very fast and can kill easily. I think for a pure Barb, it is too tough and not worth it, at least for a while.
-A

Taunt and / or Howl makes them a lot more manageable.

Occhi

[Ashock]

Taunt and / or Howl makes them a lot more manageable.

Occhi

Yeh, but why bother if you can just do the easier area, since all he is really just looking for is items. The path of least resistance, and all ;)


-A

[Occhidiangela]

Yeh, but why bother if you can just do the easier area, since all he is really just looking for is items. The path of least resistance, and all ;)
-A

FWIW, Howl lets you isolate the boss from his pack. Boss has higher drop/rare/unique/set chances. More efficient to kill bosses and dispense with the scrubs, it neato items per unit time is an objective.

Occhi

[Ashock]

FWIW, Howl lets you isolate the boss from his pack. Boss has higher drop/rare/unique/set chances. More efficient to kill bosses and dispense with the scrubs, it neato items per unit time is an objective.

Occhi

There's plenty of bosses in the Mauseleum, and they are slow. I thought the objective of the game to get as many good items as possible in the fasteest possible time, with the least deaths? You mean I've been doing this all wrong all those years? :blink:


-A

[MonTy]

Hail all,

Thanks for all the Hell suggestions. My first step into Hell should be very soon!

I've been running the Countess and Meph in Nightmare for quite a bit, and I'm finding a ton of uniques and set items.. just not ones that I can use o_O. So with no real item upgrades after a bunch of runs, I moved onto Act V NM, and I'm in the process of finishing up Nightmare difficulty. I'm doing quite well with my rune collection, so a few more runewords are looking more plausible. But I have a feeling that I'll have my runewords ready but no socket weapons to put them in. I am also currently deciding what to do with my character stat points. I have a level saved up because I'm not sure if I want to invest those points into strength for higher end gear, where as I'm surely going to need those points into vitality. Here are my current base stats:

Lvl 64
STR: 140
DEX: 115
VIT: 140

Could anyone give me some advise on my stat distrubution from here on? Remember I'm just using one handed swords with a shield. I don't want to invest too many points into Vitality and not be able to equip some decent gear. I've looked at the Arreat Summit and noticed the min. requirements for a one-handed sword is STR: 147, DEX: 136, but a lot of higher end armor pieces requires 180+ STR! I'm going to start planning my gear, but I wasn't quite sure what is realistically attainable in single-player mode. Any advice would help a lot, thanks.

*edit - This was meant to be a reply to Occhi's and Ashock's posts, so I had to change the wording a bit.

[MonTy]

Hail all,

After spending some time overlooking The Arreat Summit, I've put together a list of wanted gear. Tell me what you think:

Weapon:
(3) Socket Mythical Sword (Elite one-handed version of War Sword) with Crescent Moon Runeword.

Best Odds of getting it:

1 : 592 Pindleskin - [H] Nihlathak's Temple - {mlvl 86}

If I get the base Mythical Sword, I'll use my Act V socket quest and pray for three sockets. I believe I definitely want to use the Crescent Moon runeword because I use the skill Warcry instead of Howl, so my enemies will be around to be hit by the CtC AoE spells.

Crescent Moon stats:
10% Chance To Cast Level 17 Chain Lightning On Striking
7% Chance To Cast Level 13 Static Field On Striking
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+180-220% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Ignore Target's Defense
-35% To Enemy Lightning Resistance
25% Chance of Open Wounds
+9-11 Magic Absorb (varies)
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 18 Summon Spirit Wolf (30 Charges)

Backup Weapon(s):
Upgrade any of the exceptional unique swords I have to the elite unique stats via the H.Cube recipe. Will take quite a bit of Countess runs, although getting to a Lum and Pul rune is not out of the question. Second choice would be to upgrade any exceptional rare swords I have using the H.Cube recipe - although the runes Fal and Um are harder to get than Lum and Pul.

Helm:
Whatever I can find. I'm not going to go crazy searching for a perfect Helm. Maybe socket with some useful runes, if I have any spare.

Armor:
(3) Socket elite armor
Lionheart runeword
Hel+Lum+Fal
+20% Enhanced Damage
Requirements -15%
+25 To Strength
+10 To Energy
+20 To Vitality
+15 To Dexterity
+50 To Life
All Resistances +30

Once again, I will have to spend time cubing up to the required runes. I absolutely love this runeword, as it helps my character all around. My backup armor is any of the unique or set item pieces I've already acquired.

Shield:
I think I'm going to keep the runeword rhyme unless I find a ring or belt that has cannot be frozen on it. Otherwise I'll try and get as a shield that has as much resist as possible.

Gloves:
Laying of Hands
+25 Defense
+20% Increased Attack Speed
+350% Damage To Demons
Fire Resist +50%
10% Chance To Cast Level 3 Holy Bolt On Striking

+350% Damage to Demons? Whoa! A lot of enemies are demons, so that would be quite nice. Here are some odds:

1 : 629 Baal - (N) The WorldStone Chamber - {mlvl 75}
1 : 661 Mephisto - [H] Durance of Hate Level 3 - {mlvl 87}

I'm not quite sure which boss would be easier and faster to run, as I havn't battled either yet.

Belt, Boots, Rings, and Amulets:

Anything I can find. Not going to go crazy hunting for those items, unless someone points out I should be ;-)

So what do you think?

[Zingydex]

Don't go too crazy looking for a high-defense armor. Most of the "threat" enemies that do physical damage either have an AR too high to compensate for (archers) or have ITD (Urdars, Lister's pack). You'll get more mileage out of keeping your block rate above 50% (or whatever your magic number is). Not to mention you'll get a lot more points in Vitality if you don't waste them seeking to equip armors that are often only a token few points higher in defense than their more affordable counterparts.

Looking at your other gear-hunting options:

- Definitely don't wait until Hell Pindle to track down that 3-socket sword for Crescent Moon. You probably won't even MAKE it that far without CM or another hard-hitting blade.

- By the same token, you're much better off farming NM Baal for as much gear as you can squeeze out of him than repeatedly braving Hell Durance. Not just for LoH, but for anything NM Baal can drop that you could use. The dolls and supercharged Council Members in Hell Durance can knock even twinked-out characters into next week.

- How are your resists looking? I know I tend to harp on that, but I've been shredded too many times to brave the higher-end monsters without topping up these key values. ID'ing rare boots can snag you 20+ in two different resists (among the few useful mods available in that gear slot). Likewise, rings and ammys can tack double-digit amounts onto all four resist scores at once.

- Helms can also fill in resist deficits, but if you're comfortable with what you've got you can also grab yourself a 3-socket something or other and fill it with Sols. 21 points off every physical hit can really come in handy. Or you can track down one of the assorted unique/set helms with leech to beef up that score; leech is horrendously nerfed in Hell so you'll need all you can get.

[MonTy]

Hail Zingydex,

Don't go too crazy looking for a high-defense armor.

Good to know about the high defense rating. I'm glad I went with War Cry instead of Shout (I'm loving War Cry. It's amazing what a 5+ second stun can do for group fights).

Definitely don't wait until Hell Pindle to track down that 3-socket sword for Crescent Moon. You probably won't even MAKE it that far without CM or another hard-hitting blade. By the same token, you're much better off farming NM Baal for as much gear as you can squeeze out of him than repeatedly braving Hell Durance. Not just for LoH, but for anything NM Baal can drop that you could use. The dolls and supercharged Council Members in Hell Durance can knock even twinked-out characters into next week.

Yea I plan on staying in Nightmare untill I can make some kind of upgrade to my weapon. Either by scoring one off of boss runs, or being able to upgrade my current uniques or rares to elite versions. Then hopefully upgrading to the CM.

How are your resists looking?

They are absolutely great. Everything is maxed out by atleast 15 over in Nightmare with my current equipment. I battled through the Chaos Sanctuary in Nightmare with relative ease.

Helms can also fill in resist deficits, but if you're comfortable with what you've got you can also grab yourself a 3-socket something or other and fill it with Sols. 21 points off every physical hit can really come in handy. Or you can track down one of the assorted unique/set helms with leech to beef up that score; leech is horrendously nerfed in Hell so you'll need all you can get.

I didn't think of the Sols, that's a great idea. I've come across some three socket barbarian helms with some nice +skill bonuses. I'll definitely think on that.

After I made my previous post I jumped back into D2, and within five minutes of playing the game I ran across three nice items:

Wilhelm's Pride
Battle Belt
Defense: 75
Required Strength: 88
Required Level: 42
+75% Enhanced Defense
Cold Resist +10%
5% Life stolen per hit
5% Mana stolen per hit

Twitchthroe
Studded Leather
Defense: 59
Required Strength: 27
Required Level: 16
+10 to Strength
+10 to Dexterity
+25% Increased Chance of Blocking
+25 Defense
20% Increased Attack Speed
20% Faster Hit Recovery

Skin of the Vipermagi
Serpentskin Armor
Defense: 279
Required Strength: 43
Required Level: 29
+120% Enhanced Defense
Magic Damage Reduced by 13
All Resistances +26
30% Faster Cast Rate
+1 to All Skill Levels

I'm not quite sure which armor to use. The Twitchthroe has some nice combat bonuses, while the Skin of the Vipermagi felt nice for quick War Cry castings and every other bonus is nice as well.

Thanks again for the help, I always appreciate it.

-MonTy

[Hammerskjold]

>Backup Weapon(s):
Upgrade any of the exceptional unique swords I have to the elite unique stats via the H.Cube recipe. Will take quite a bit of Countess runs, although getting to a Lum and Pul rune is not out of the question. Second choice would be to upgrade any exceptional rare swords I have using the H.Cube recipe - although the runes Fal and Um are harder to get than Lum and Pul.

There are some decent exceptional unique swords that can benefit from the upgrading to elite, if you already have all the ingredients. But unless I misread your post, my 2 cents on the Rare weapon elite upgrade isn't worth it, unless you have an excess of UMs. Imo if you got an UM and you want to make a weapon out of it, you're better off saving it for that CMoon. And if you got the UMs to spare, there's always 'Gloom' or 'Duress' armor. Not to mention the FAL that can go into that 'Lionheart' you're interested in. I just think that rare weapon elite recipe in most cases, doesn't give you a good value considering the potential scarcity of the runes involved.

Unless you really really really want to do it.

[librarian]

Heiho,

I second that. Given the, well, rarity of some really useful rares, not to mention the legendary 450%ED ones, the necessary upgrade runes are too worthy for other purposes.

[MonTy]

Hail Hammerskjold,

my 2 cents on the Rare weapon elite upgrade isn't worth it, unless you have an excess of UMs.

Haha, I wish I had an excess of UMs. Maybe I emphasized too much that I'm doing well in the Rune department. I do not even have a UM yet, but I'm almost there. I realize that the elite rare upgrade is really an expensive route to take, and it is certainly my last resort for a weapon upgrade.

I just think that rare weapon elite recipe in most cases, doesn't give you a good value considering the potential scarcity of the runes involved.

As stated above, I agree. Althoguh I was set to believe that even if it's not the best choice I still would have to upgrade my weapon before any other piece of equipment.

Unless you really really really want to do it.

Nope, I just thought I was doing what is better for my character by holding priority in upgrading his weapon first.

Thanks again for the comments Hammerskjold. I always like reading your posts, as they contain a lot of helpful suggestions. Take care,

-MonTy