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07-21-2006, 06:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2006, 06:31 PM by Concillian.)
Quote:And be ready for level 60 mages from power guilds AOEing the whole field down to bring their new shammy up to speed.
Yeah, who cares about totem quests when you have a decked out mage mowing crap down for you. You can go back and get the totem quests after you have a mount and they aren't majorly camped so you don't waste so much time.
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Even the 5 mans, a shammy / pally duo would be pretty insane for healing combo.
Imagine:
Feral Druid (Leader of the Pack / tank)
Warrior (Battle shout)
rogue or warrior (mass DPS)
Shaman (WF, Strength totem)
Paladin (BoK or might)
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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Quote:And be ready for level 60 mages from power guilds AOEing the whole field down to bring their new shammy up to speed.
Dibs on Littledude/Sabramage/Lochnar.
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Quote:Even the 5 mans, a shammy / pally duo would be pretty insane for healing combo.
Imagine:
Feral Druid (Leader of the Pack / tank)
Warrior (Battle shout)
rogue or warrior (mass DPS)
Shaman (WF, Strength totem)
Paladin (BoK or might)
Yeah considering both of them could solo heal most 5 mans anyway. :)
Now you get to add to DPS have tons of off tanking and more than enough healing. No AoE? Who cares in that group.
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Quote:Dibs on Littledude/Sabramage/Lochnar.
:(
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07-21-2006, 06:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2006, 06:52 PM by Mavfin.)
Quote:Yeah considering both of them could solo heal most 5 mans anyway. :)
Now you get to add to DPS have tons of off tanking and more than enough healing. No AoE? Who cares in that group.
poor-man's AOE...magma totem, fire nova totem, to add to the consecrate from the pally.
Oh, and don't forget CL.
--Mav
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07-21-2006, 06:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2006, 06:56 PM by Concillian.)
Quote:Yeah considering both of them could solo heal most 5 mans anyway. :)
Now you get to add to DPS have tons of off tanking and more than enough healing. No AoE? Who cares in that group.
WF + 2 toons doing Cleave / Blade Flurry / WW = decent AoE... enough to hold aggro that you can add in magme / nova totem and chain lightning
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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Quote:Dibs on Littledude/Sabramage/Lochnar.
Keshela will be 60 by then!
--Mav
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Quote:So much for the new races being a tool to help balance factions, eh?
Wait, I just realized this will later be used as a tool to help balance factions, because it will allow for significantly simpler cross faction transfers (alliance --> horde and vice versa)
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
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Quote:Dibs on Littledude/Sabramage/Lochnar.
Wouldn't you actually be better off with a 30-40 mage to start?
The reason I ask is because I'm not positive on how the experience penalty for being in group with a 60 is. The lower level mage would still be able to kill nearly as fast (a one shot is a one shot) spawns will limit you on the spamming anyway, and if the exp penalty is lower you have same kill speed and more exp.
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Nice. #$%& up your own lore a bit more, K?
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Quote:WF + 2 toons doing Cleave / Blade Flurry / WW = decent AoE... enough to hold aggro that you can add in magme / nova totem since you have plenty of healing for them.
Yes yes but it isn't "true AoE". Just like Holy Nova still isn't considered a true AoE by some even though it is spammable.
Having done the lyceum with a hunter and shaman as the only "AoE" I know there are lots of ways to get more AoE in.
The insane damage mitigation of those 5 classes + the buffs would oblierate things.
No CC, who cares, damage rate will be low enough, HP pools big enough that the heal will cover it. Either healer gets aggro? Who cares concentration aura means they can both (if they have any healing talents) heal through it without interruption and neither healer will really care that much about the damage they are taking either. :) Shadow prot aura and FR totem if you have shadow and fire coming in too. :)
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Quote:Wouldn't you actually be better off with a 30-40 mage to start?
The reason I ask is because I'm not positive on how the experience penalty for being in group with a 60 is. The lower level mage would still be able to kill nearly as fast (a one shot is a one shot) spawns will limit you on the spamming anyway, and if the exp penalty is lower you have same kill speed and more exp.
Well, I imagine cheesing through instances would be as good or better without worry on respawns.
Anyone else see the video where a 60 warrior demo shouted EVERY Deadmines mob onto him as he went running straight down the way to VC, needing no healing other than a priest shield?
Imagine that combo with a new character in tow, then the whole instance dies to a spam of holy novas. Seems like 4 clears an hour of Deadmines would give pretty decent exp even if you have 2 60s in the group.
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
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And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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Quote:Nice. #$%& up your own lore a bit more, K?
Personally, I could never understand why the Undead couldn't be Paladins. They were humans once and they recall information from when they were alive, so why not allow them Paladins.
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Quote:Even the 5 mans, a shammy / pally duo would be pretty insane for healing combo.
Imagine:
Feral Druid (Leader of the Pack / tank)
Warrior (Battle shout)
rogue or warrior (mass DPS)
Shaman (WF, Strength totem)
Paladin (BoK or might)
Wait it gets worse.
Not only everything that was already said, but you want to talk about damage mitigation?
Sanctuary + Stoneskin + Healing Stream + Judgement of Light + Devo aura.
1K armor, -50 damage, and about 50 HP/s returned to the melee classes (healing stream benefits from +healing gear now I've seen it do over 30 a tick).
Of course you wouldn't use stoneskin and the pally probably doesn't have sanctuary blessing, but if you wanted the damage mitigation you could stack all that. And yes I consider passive healing damage mitigation.
The shaman and paladin wouldn't have mana issues if you didn't need the judgement of light as you could judge wisdom. Yeah, that 5 man sounds crazy.
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Quote:Personally, I could never understand why the Undead couldn't be Paladins. They were humans once and they recall information from when they were alive, so why not allow them Paladins.
Because they have frosaken the light (or feel they were forsaken by the light). It's part of the reason for the name.
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07-21-2006, 07:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2006, 07:24 PM by Ruvanal.)
Quote:Dibs on Littledude/Sabramage/Lochnar.
It is unlikely that Littledude will be there for this.
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07-21-2006, 07:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2006, 07:46 PM by Monkey.)
Quote:Because they have frosaken the light (or feel they were forsaken by the light). It's part of the reason for the name.
The Blood Elves have also forsaken the Light. Kael'thas brought back a being of Pure Light and they're enslaving it to teach BEs about being Holy. Problems with that aside, those holy capabilities were apparently something the Horde felt to be strategically important enough to accept the Blood Elves. It's not clear why they didn't make the BEs send trainers to Deathknell to pump out some Forsaken Blood Knights as part of this deal--Oh wait, yes it is clear! Aspiring Hordadins have to buy the expansion if only Blood Elves can be Pallies.
My bitter lore commentary aside, this is a necessary step for Blizzard's overall game development strategy. They'll want the new races to be really attractive to get people leveling together and building social ties all over again. It helps draw people into re-using all the existing content if they're leveling new characters. I'm sure level 60-65s will be doing pickup ZG/AQ20/etc. To encourage this, they're piling incentives on the new races and this is just one of those incentives.
It also lets them cut out half of their in-house raid play-testing. That way, they can push raid content faster and cheaper.
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Quote:The Blood Elves have also forsaken the Light. Kael'thas brought back a being of Pure Light and they're enslaving it to teach BEs about being Holy. Problems with that aside, those holy capabilities were apparently something the Horde felt to be strategically important enough to accept the Blood Elves. It's not clear why they didn't make the BEs send trainers to Deathknell to pump out some Forsaken Blood Knights as part of this deal--Oh wait, yes it is clear! Aspiring Hordadins have to buy the expansion if only Blood Elves can be Pallies.
My bitter lore commentary aside, this is a necessary step for Blizzard's overall game development strategy. They'll want the new races to be really attractive to get people leveling together and building social ties all over again. It helps draw people into re-using all the existing content if they're leveling new characters. I'm sure level 60-65s will be doing pickup ZG/AQ20/etc. To encourage this, they're piling incentives on the new races and this is just one of those incentives.
It also lets them cut out half of their in-house raid play-testing. That way, they can push raid content faster and cheaper.
Yeah I understand the decision.
And honestly on the class balance issue I'm guessing if they do raid instances in the expansion they'll be 60 man affairs.
The current 40 mans become trivial as soon as the expansion hits anyway. A L70 warrior vs essentially L63 mobs? You'll get all that natural spell resist and missing + all the other goodies. The new talents will trivialize it.
So current raid content really doesn't matter if you get shaman and paladins because you'll end up with L70's in there anyway.
MC will be a 20 man pick-up that will still only take 2 or 3 hours to finish. ZG will be a 5 man where you can go get some blues and purples for your buddies to get them to 70 quicker.
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Quote:I would like to point out in self-serving manner that we have seen this coming for a long time now. Mind you, this was said BEFORE Blizzard announced Draenei as the new Alliance race.
That older thread discusses various aspects of the impact of this change and why it will not matter in relation to current content (level 70 cap alone will trivialize any and all existing content).
Personally, I would like to call this change "Blizzard giving up on trying to balance totems and blessings in raid setting and taking the easy way out". Expect complaints about Horde Racials and Alliance Fear Ward soon!
When I saw this I immediately thought of your comments linked above, and remembered that I thought "No way they would ever do that!"
:o
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