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Quote:I think Rogue is overall the easiest class. Not as effective as a Sorcerer with Chain Lightning and Fireball, and she doesn't dish out as much damage as a Warrior with a good sword, but overall I think it's the best class.
- For a Sorcerer, Triple Immunes are a pain. No monsters are immune to arrows though.
- For a Warrior, Ranged Attackers are likewise a pain. Especially witches that will run away if you miss a strike.
- Even though she's not as strong as Sorcerer with magic, she can still be devastating.
- Her bow doesn't match the damage of a Warrior's sword, but using any bow she shoots as fast as a Warrior with hasted sword swings.
- Her high dexterity makes CC use possible without to-hit jewels.
- Using a shield, she has high chance to block, again due to her high dexterity.
If you think that Rogue is the easiest class, you haven't played the game that much.
-A
ps. Rogues should use a bow. Period.
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>I think Rogue is overall the easiest class. Not as effective as a Sorcerer with Chain Lightning and Fireball, and she doesn't dish out as much damage as a Warrior with a good sword, but overall I think it's the best class.
If that's your personal belief, then there's no debating that. However, if we're talking about it in a more objective way, I'd go with Rogue as the most versatile, but not necessarily the strongest (as in most brutally efficient overall, in a non-restricted non-variant game, D1 classic.). That title goes to Sorceror, simply because D1 favours magical\elemental AoE attacks. Not as much as D2 thank god, but it's definitely there. (Though in HF, a Barbarian can get fairly close in the runnings for that title.)
>- For a Sorcerer, Triple Immunes are a pain. No monsters are immune to arrows though.
Triple immunes are and can be a pain for mages. But a (legitimate) stick of Apocalypse usually takes care of that pretty fast. Ok it might need some town trips to recharge and reload, but considering it's an AoE spell that doesn't even need a line of sight to work it's brutish charm.
>- Using a shield, she has high chance to block, again due to her high dexterity.
High chance to block by itself, is not that great on a Rogue. She needs a -fast block- shield to really take advantage of her innate 'dextrousity-ness'.
Other than that most of your points are valid imo.
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Quote:If you think that Rogue is the easiest class, you haven't played the game that much.
-A
ps. Rogues should use a bow. Period.
A low ac bow rogue who doesnt rely on mana shield or offensive spells (including stone curse) is certainly not the easiest class to play. However, a high AC rogue using CC, MS and offensive spells rivals the tank mage in ease of play.
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Quote:I think Rogue is overall the easiest class.
In hell/hell you mean, I suppose? It's probably a good thing that Bostic no longer frequents the Diablo forums.
Quote:-A
ps. Rogues should use a bow. Period.
Ashock got it right here, for once. He was also right that rogues are the easiest class in the early going of normal/church, but I think he just got lucky on that one.
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09-13-2006, 07:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2006, 07:15 PM by Ashock.)
Quote:In hell/hell you mean, I suppose? It's probably a good thing that Bostic no longer frequents the Diablo forums.
Ashock got it right here, for once. He was also right that rogues are the easiest class in the early going of normal/church, but I think he just got lucky on that one.
So, that's twice already.
Oh and BTW, I will have you know that I have taken all 3 classes through at least the early Cats. I am very experienced!
That's right, dammit.
<span style="color:#FF0000">-A
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Quote:A low ac bow rogue who doesnt rely on mana shield or offensive spells (including stone curse) is certainly not the easiest class to play. However, a high AC rogue using CC, MS and offensive spells rivals the tank mage in ease of play.
Well... If you're talking about triple immunes, then she is actually stronger. However, for all others, nothing beats a Tank Mage... or Arty Mage or pretty much AONV Mage (Any Other Non-Variant, I just came up with that brilliancy, btw). After all, what a Ro can do with spells, a Sorc can do better.
-A
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Quote:Only monsters that have the "behaviour byte" (byte 105 of the monster's data) set to a particular value. I can't off the top of my head remember exactly what value ir is and which monsters have it. But I did write a modlet that changed this value for all monsters which made it easy to find out what value was required. I'll look into it when I get home from work later.
Well, I couldn't find any of my previous work on this, so I started over. Unfortunately, I don't have Diablo installed right now, so I couldn't actually do any testing. I've written a program that will create some .dat files that can be used to test this however, if somebody else would like to try.
Just download this, copy it to your Diablo folder, and run it. It will create four files, named set_iq_to#.dat. Each of htese dat files turns off all monster resistances, and set the "IQ" byte of each monster to 0, 1, 2 and 3, respectively. It's then a matter of loading each .dat file, playing the game and then casting FW in front of the first monster you see.
If someone can tell me which .dat file is the one where the monsters will not cross the FW, I'll write another small program to determine which monsters normally have this value set.
For anyone interested in the workings, the source code is here.
"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"
-W.C. Fields
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Just a few more things that weren't mentioned/were unclear.
Firewall aiming tactics
Whenever you cast a firewall, it will come up orthogonal to the line between you and the cast point. Kind of confusing in words...time for a couple thousand, value-wise.
o = cast point (where you right-clicked)
..................|
You-------o|
..................|
You\
.........\........./
............\..../
..............o
............/
Mmkay, that second one didn't come out so good, but you should get the general idea there. So if you see a line of Succubi, try to maneuver into a position where you'll hit all of them.
The other thing about Firewalls was mentioned, but not really explained. You always want to cast them on the in-game axes, which actually run from top left to bottom right, and top right to bottom left, checkerboard style. The N/S/E/W description doesn't really clarify that. Anyway, if you don't cast on one of the two axes, there are "gaps" in your Firewall. Consider the checkerboard example. If you move diagonally (white-to-white, like a bishop), you don't actually cross one of the rows. Monsters routinely do this, so aim well.
If you're still confused about axis positioning, find an empty area (town will work, I suppose) and start dropping piles of 1 gold until you have a 3x3 or 4x4 grid. You should be able to see it. If/when you move on to the Sorceror, the axes make hitting targets MUCH easier. You should almost always line missiles up along them.
Gonna have to second the avoidance of telekill unless you find a good weapon "of Vampires".
In addition to "reading glasses", Enchanted Shrines are a huge help in leveling up spells, but they're rather boring to search for. Single player makes it even worse, since you have to create a new game in which you are unable to reenter Hell unless you walk there.
As for the great 3-class debate, I'm gonna have to go with Sorceror as the end-game powerhouse. Yes, the rogue may be as easy to play with stupid armor, block rate, to-hit and nigh-invincibility, but she has nowhere near the killing power. Quite simply, Fireball > arrows. (properly-used) Chain Lightning > arrows (although it has a slower refire rate). And he can cast many, many more Stone Curses than she. And there's no arguing with Stone Curse.
Quote:Well... If you're talking about triple immunes, then she is actually stronger.
I'm not so sure about that. There's obviously the infinitely cheesy Apocalypse solution, but beside that, it depends on the volume of enemies activated. The mage can clear large room of Advocates faster than the rogue, simply because he can maintain pressure via Golem, Stone Curse, and good 'ol hack-n-slash whereas she has to chug much more mana to keep the Curse up (or not use it and chug red/happy feet and use inferior golem + slower average attack rate). She also casts it slower. I wouldn't recommend standing in the fireball storm either way, though. She's much faster with the small packs, yes, but that impedes the overall clearing rate. And while it may be more intelligent and economical in terms of potions, the destructive force of teleporting around 16 (post-Blood Knights, perhaps) and clearing large swarms at once rather than activating one of the poor sods at a time is a poorly phrased sentence that I don't want to revise. If money/potions are not an object, and enemies cleared divided by time is, the Sorceror still wins out (at least against Advocates--Burners are a bit more golem-resistant).
Still up in the air on the easiest starting class. When played by a veteran, I'd actually put Warrior in last there. Rogues are fairly easy, but again lack the killing speed. Staff of Charged Bolt (especially if you're not doing a full clear--multiplayer game-hopping and such) is an absolute beast, and there's no reason to pay Adria to recharge the thing.
--me
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Ive played alot of rogue,not gonna comment on that..will be ready to help you in multiplayer..diablo east ,channel diablo le..where most legits hang these days...at least the ones that play.
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And the saga continues...
First, again, thank you all for your suggestions and debates. I can see why so many people like this game so much. Ashock mentins that he envies my voyage of discovery and I know what he means...I felt the same way about Myst (remember that I am an adventure gamer dabbling on "the dark side" to use Gameboomers' term..).
I have two warriors going, both around level 23 or so. One is on dungeon level 15 where the beasties were hoards and hoards of Snow Witches, Soul Burners and the like that I have, I think, mostly despatched but it got too late for me to go much further the other night. That character had been to d-level 13 and was getting his butt kicked so I started him over...I didn't know I wouldn't be getting any level-up experience (or darned little) until I got much deeper under the church...so he has probably $135,000 gold laying on the ground near the town portal site and bunches of other special situation items including what you call "reading glasses". As soon as I get chance, I'll see if I can finish a game with that guy.
The other Warrior, also around a level 23 character, got to level 15 and ran into some Soul Burners - little blue Vargas babes in thongs that shoot yellow balls of light and are immune to firewall, and a whole bunch of these guys that look like chess pieces holding big lollipops that shoot lightning. I loaded up with potions and hacked and hacked and even killed a few but mostly they just kept disappearing and reappearing a short distance away and jolting me some more. I've got pretty good resistances and held out for a while but eventually decided that I needed some additional weaponry and decided to take this character and start over. I went through the first two levels of the church using just my shield to bash everything - it was fun! All I'm looking for are spell books, magical weapons & jewelry, and some gold so I can buy things to help me get through level 15..
I'll get back and let you know how it goes...I could make more progress but my son uses this computer for homework...
Thanks again for your advice. If you aren't familiar with Gameboomers.com I'll give them a plug. Mostly a group devoted to adventure games they also have a fair amount of "dark side" discussion forums. There are game reviews, walkthroughs, etc. You may want to check it out.
Ed A
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I can't speak too much for Lawyer-killing as a Warrior, but cornering them should work (if you're having problems catching, not problems killing). I'm also told a hasted one-handed weapon will be able to keep them in stunlock.
And since when has homework EVER taken precedence over gaming?
--me
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Quote:So, that's twice already.
No, no --- I didn't count the lucky guess.
Quote:Oh and BTW, I will have you know that I have taken all 3 classes through at least the early Cats. I am very experienced!
And I'll have you know that I played a warriot in the pre-release demo down at least to lvl 2 of the church, so I think I can fairly claim to know pretty much everything there is to know about them.
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Quote:And I'll have you know that I played a warriot in the pre-release demo down at least to lvl 2 of the church, so I think I can fairly claim to know pretty much everything there is to know about them.
That's because that's all there is know about being a meatshield.:P
Go Rogue Go!!!
"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"
-W.C. Fields
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Quote:And I'll have you know that I played a warriot in the pre-release demo down at least to lvl 2 of the church, so I think I can fairly claim to know pretty much everything there is to know about them.
Ok, I'll give you that. You know much about "warrio ts. However, what about warrio rs??? :blink:
-A
ps. Sorry, I'm bored B).
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I loaded the .dat through DHack and also Doom-Gaze's Trainer, both which reported a problem with the files and were unable to apply them to Diablo's memory.
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09-16-2006, 03:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2006, 03:41 AM by Thecla.)
Quote:Ok, I'll give you that. You know much about "warriots. However, what about warriors???
Well, all this time I thought you knew something about warriots, but I guess I was mistaken.
Edited: to correct spelling, in case I get any more stupid complaints.
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Quote:I loaded the .dat through DHack and also Doom-Gaze's Trainer, both which reported a problem with the files and were unable to apply them to Diablo's memory.
Oops, I wrote the location of the data in the .exe, not in memory. I've corrected this error and replaced the file to be downloaded.
"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"
-W.C. Fields
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Quote:Well, all this time I thought you knew something about warriots, but I guess I was mistaken.
Edited: to correct spelling, in case I get any more stupid complaints.
Yeh, you were mistaken. My wife is the one who knows all about semi-naked, homosexual men who like to wrestle. Sounds weird, eh? Well, it's true.
-A
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Ok it still showed as "error", but when I activated it, it reported as being applied just fine. Unfortunately, I didn't notice any difference between any of the intelligence factors. Melee enemies would still cross it one at a time, and fleeing ranged attackers would cross when forced to.
I wonder if you were thinking of hellfire? I definitely know that some non-immunes in hellfire will not cross them at all - which can be annoying when you are trying to take on one melee at a time and they won't even come to you through the firewall. Either that or the IF's weren't being applied correctly.
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