Burning Crusade Beta Patch 2.0.2.6144

[nobbie]

Hunter

- The Beast Within was reduced from 30% damage to 10% damage

Druid

- Consumables can no longer be used in forms. This includes bandages, potions, thistle tea, food, or any other reasonable item that any other class can use

...

BUT

- Tree form has a new and sexy dance!

I thinks this needs no comment.

[Zarathustra]

They even added ANIMATIONS to cat and bear forms for eating and drinking, then later called it a "bug" that characters were able to do that.

I don't get Blizzard sometimes.

[nobbie]

The new "idle" animation for female Blood Elves, by the way, doesn't cut it either. The old one was better.

[Quark]

They even added ANIMATIONS to cat and bear forms for eating and drinking, then later called it a "bug" that characters were able to do that.

I don't get Blizzard sometimes.

Thistle Tea is listed as usable by Druids. I think it was bad enough they added it then took it away. Calling it a "bug" was the worst relations move they've ever pulled off.

[Monkey]

Thistle Tea is listed as usable by Druids. I think it was bad enough they added it then took it away. Calling it a "bug" was the worst relations move they've ever pulled off.

Although the consumables change is huge (C'mon, are you telling me a bear can't eat? And don't get me started on cats--my house cat tries to eat my food all the time!), there were several other significant feral nerfs:

- Imp LoTP has been reduce to 2 points, with each point doing exactly the same amount as before (making this a nerf, only healing 4% at full points).
- Nuturing Instincts lowered from 50/100% to 25/50%
- Improved Leader of the Pack changed from 3 points at 2/4/6% to 2 points at 2/4%.
- Weapon procs no longer fire for a druid in feral forms.

So...no real estate for Old Man Dennis after all?

Also, for any druid (like me) who uses noggenfogger in lieu of an Azeroth flight form:

- Noggenfogger now has a 2 minute cooldown and the Floating effect lasts 12 seconds instead of 2 minutes.

No more jumps from Winterspring into Azshara or aerial assaults on the blacksmith from the lumber mill in Arathi Basin. Our time of floaty prosperity has come to an end.:(

More notes here:
http://beta.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.htm...d=1255452&sid=1

[Zarathustra]

The Druid forums are a load of dreck right now, with the constant complaints over the dangling buffs that were snatched away.

The rumors I'm hearing now are that they found Druids to be too powerful in the Arena when they were able to use consumeables in forms. The collateral damage is that items like thistle tea (PvE cat dps), rage pots (PvE tanking love), or ANY potions (you know... the way every other class in the game can drink pots at any time, barring ghost wolf form?) took the hit.

How on earth does the abiilty to use potions in forms make a Druid overpowered? To say a bear with health pots is overpowered is laughable when given a warrior example, and the same could be said of cat compared to Rogues. It's not gamebreaking that Moonkin can use potions, so why is it considered so for Feral forms?

This is not a design decision, evident form the work they put into eating, drinking, potioning, and even BANDAGING animations in forms. They saw no problem with Druids in the land of Azeroth doing so from a design standpoint, so the almighty game balance must be the culprit.

As for the procs in forms, I'm thinking one example of an overpowered situation must have gotten out of control and they just put the brakes on the whole thing. Perhaps it was difficulty adjusting the ppm on a weapon for Cat Form's 1.0s attack speed? *shrugs*

And while I'm on the topic of Druids, I'll throw one more piece out just to champion the cause I've been fighting for over the past two years: the game is still incomplete. The Great Cat Spirit still roams Moonglade without an associated quest. That's just lazy. Give me the proper tools and I could come up with an appropriate questline over a weekend. The same goes for all classes ("Oh, here's your Air Totem, shaman! Um... the spirit of air said 'hi'... and stuff") but since I've always been a sucker for Druids, they're my big beef. It takes a long, involved quest line to learn to take on the characteristics of a mighty bear. To cure poisons, one must first track down the source of tainted wildlife and see to their salvation. To call down the power of a Hurricane.... 30 copper, please!

[Concillian]

The rumors I'm hearing now are that they found Druids to be too powerful in the Arena when they were able to use consumeables in forms.

This makes no sense... consumables (except bandages) are not allowed to be used in arena combat.

[fractaled]

The rumors I'm hearing now are that they found Druids to be too powerful in the Arena when they were able to use consumeables in forms.

I thought non-conjured consumable weren't useable in the Arena?

[Zarathustra]

I believe Healthstones in forms were the item people were complaining about, though I'd have to do some digging to find exactly what the supposed problem was.

[Warlock]

I believe Healthstones in forms were the item people were complaining about, though I'd have to do some digging to find exactly what the supposed problem was.

If you can find it, please do - I haven't been able to locate anything.

I can't see why Cat/Bear using a healthstone is game breaking but a Rogue/Warrior using one isn't. Classes should have the same relative power in arena that they do in the rest of the game - I very much doubt that balanced-for-no-pots Druids are going to suddenly stomp all over needs-pots-to-be-balanced everyone else in Arenas where pots aren't available.

The Nurturing Instinct change doesnt worry me much. I can see why cat/shifting specialists are concerned but as the tank it's pretty rare for me to shift and start healing mid fight - emergencies call for a battle res and/or innervate, not trying to spam HT with five mobs beating on me. So I wasn't going to take the talent even at 100%. I-LOTP I'm still pretty happy with at 4%, especially with the larger health pool it'l work on now.

But I would like procs and consumables. I want the flashy enchants to be as useful to me as they are to other classes (especially since like every tanking Druid I'm an enchanter myself), just as the raw stat enchants are. I want to look at Sulfuras and consider the proc better than +1 Spirit. I want to be able to benefit from having the warlock pass out healthstones just as any other class can. I want Alchemy to mean more than a transmute.

[Artega]

Mighty Rage Potion

Classes: Warrior

How does a Druid make use of an item restricted to the Warrior class? Unless it's a bug, which would need fixing (or adjust it so that the item says Classes: Warrior, Druid)

[Artega]

But I would like procs and consumables. I want the flashy enchants to be as useful to me as they are to other classes (especially since like every tanking Druid I'm an enchanter myself), just as the raw stat enchants are. I want to look at Sulfuras and consider the proc better than +1 Spirit. I want to be able to benefit from having the warlock pass out healthstones just as any other class can. I want Alchemy to mean more than a transmute.

You can have weapon procs if you lose two-handed mace proficiency. Dark Iron Pulverizer with Catform attack speeds?

EDIT: You can benefit from Alchemy as a Druid. Do you lose your Elixir buffs when you shift forms? I imagine it does suck quite strongly to not be able to drink a red during combat, but you could always quickly shift to caster form, root your target, and do your healing trick then, like most Druids I fight do (generally they tank in bearform to wear me down, then use Nature's Grasp to root me, and if I don't break the root, they take a few steps back into the melee-ranged deadzone and heal, then shift back and repeat until I eventually die.)

[Ruvanal]

Mighty Rage Potion

Classes: Warrior

How does a Druid make use of an item restricted to the Warrior class? Unless it's a bug, which would need fixing (or adjust it so that the item says Classes: Warrior, Druid)

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=2720
;)

[Warlock]

How Rage potions could be used by both classes: http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=2720

Since most items work of procs per minute (PPM) Catform attack speed is actually a disadvantage for procs. A Warrior or Rogue with a one PPM item gets one PPM from the main hand, another PPM from the offhand and a 2.9/60 chance of another proc for each instant or cleave used. Cat would get just the one PPM main hand and 1.0/60 procs per instant. Bear would do better thanks to Swipe.

I'm not really asking for more power. Raw stats generally compare decently to procs - weapons with strong procs give up a whole bunch of stats to get that proc compared to other items of the same grade. Procs are more interesting, not stronger.

It's harder for a Feral Druid to heal in PVP than any other class.
On Fabius, this is what I need to do to self heal: click my healthstone or potion.
On Named, I can do those or deathcoil.
On Unity: Shift out, lose all my accumlated rage or energy, click my healthstone or potion (if I'm in melee and need to heal it's not likely that I can get a cast time spell off, barring a successful bash in a duel), hope no-one was saving a stun or big instant until I was in caster, spend some mana to shift back.
Nature's Swiftness would help but I'd have to give up a lot of tanking power to get it. Roots has a cast time and doesn't work indoors.

[Zarathustra]

Mighty Rage Potion

Classes: Warrior

How does a Druid make use of an item restricted to the Warrior class? Unless it's a bug, which would need fixing (or adjust it so that the item says Classes: Warrior, Druid)

They changed the item in the beta to read "Classes: Warrior, Druid" and allowed Druids to use them. They did the same with Thistle Tea. They later claimed it was a bug.

[oldmandennis]

I imagine it does suck quite strongly to not be able to drink a red during combat, but you could always quickly shift to caster form, root your target

On the consumables, the main complaint is for trying to MT. Several Nax encounters are balanced around the tanks popping stoneshield or greater protection pots. PvP is such a whole different ball of wax that doesn't nearly lend itself to theorycraft nearly as much.

Does crusader really proc on the offhand? I'm pretty sure that's not the case, but I might be wrong. It does proc on many specials, but cats have about as many special swings as everybody else. The real problem could be if they couldn't normalize it for the 1.0 swing of the cat - if the PPM was based on a 3.0 mace swing, and then was tripled for the cat speed, that would be a real problem. Thats the sort of stuff that gets pushed to the back burner when you start running out of time.

[Zarathustra]

Does crusader really proc on the offhand? I'm pretty sure that's not the case, but I might be wrong.

Yes. When dual-wielding, you can get a proc off each weapon. You actually get two identical buff icons, and receive full benefit from each. I use two weapons with Crusader on my warrior.

[oldmandennis]

Yes. When dual-wielding, you can get a proc off each weapon. You actually get two identical buff icons, and receive full benefit from each. I use two weapons with Crusader on my warrior.

But that's with 2 crusaders. You are giving up a lot by putting that second crusader on - 15agi that could benefit both your weapons. That second crusader is just an offhand, it only does white swings, so you can add a couple with flurry or SnD, but there is no SS/BS or BT/WW procs coming from it. All of its swings will be subject to the DW penalty, with no yellow hits that are guaranteed to hit.

I am pretty sure if you put crusader on a two hander and a one hander of the same speed, then got a fast grey off hand, you would get the same proc rate for both weapons... minus the DW penalty for the DW setup.

[Warlock]

*snip*

I am pretty sure if you put crusader on a two hander and a one hander of the same speed, then got a fast grey off hand, you would get the same proc rate for both weapons... minus the DW penalty for the DW setup.

That sounds right to me. Even though the offhand doesn't benefit as much as the main hand I still like Crusader for the offhand - I'd rather have 100 ST 20% of the time (1 PPM with 15 sec duration, adjusted for DW miss rate) and a bit of healing and a flashy graphic than 15 ST all the time.

[Artega]

Don't weapon procs' PPM stay the same regardless of attack speed? Which would make Flurry, Counterweights, etc. actually increase the procrate? With catform's lightning fast attack speed, I think someone could make a case for an 8 second stun proc being overpowered as hell in that case:)