patch 2.0.10 notes on the PTR

[ima_nerd]

Except you'll still bring a DPS warrior. I haven't seen any indication anywhere that DPS warriors' raid spots are in danger due to Feral druids.

If the DPS warrior tanks as well as the Feral druid (without having any points in Protection), there's no need to bring the Feral druid--especially if you can replace two support healers by having him spec a full Restoration spec, and replace the second support-healer with a DPS class. It covers just about any flexibility the Feral druid would bring.

Again, you're mixing apples and oranges. DPS Warrior spots are in danger from Rogues. An OT position (emphasis orly?) is what I'm discussing. A Feral Druid is the clear choice for an OT. The Feral Druid can do everything the DPS Warrior can and more.

Note: I was saying "DPS Warrior" merely to not have to type out "Arms/Fury Warrior":PI was still referring to an OT position, not a DPS position. Sorry for any resulting confusion.

They more than merit a DPS spot, plus they bring their own versatility.

Utility? I don't think anyone can succesfully argue that an Arms/Fury Warrior brings anywhere near the utility that a Feral Druid does. And the DPS difference? Puh-lease. The DPS loss from a Feral Druid is, I wager, made up with LotP. Throw a Rogue in the Druid's group and bam, the DPS difference is gone. If not made up, made so inconsequential, that the utility the Druid brings makes Arms/Fury Warriors as top OT choice a thing of the past.

[Tal]

...

I said, pretty darn clearly, a druid can't tank unless he's Feral. You stated you've seen a Restoration druid tank, yet now you admit you don't know if he HAD points in Feral? There is a TON of difference between asking a warrior his spec before he tanks than asking a druid, since a warrior can tank REGARDLESS of spec, and a druid CANNOT. Not effectively, not for any long period of time (and again, 5-mans are negligible; PETS tank 5-mans).

I, once again, completely and openly disagree with you. They still have bear form which grants armor and life. They still have access to all of the skills of a bear tank. They're not as effective as a warrior but they CAN do it.

A Feral druid specs to tank, a warrior with points only in Arms/Fury does not. For that reason ALONE, I should be allowed to be better at tanking than those Arms/Fury warriors.

Do your healing abilities, battle rez, buffing, etc disappear when you access the feral tree? There is TWO roles a warrior can spec into. DPS or tank for that reason ALONE the dps spec should tank as well as a feral druid.

And a warrior with 15 points in Protection isn't exactly just an Arms/Fury warrior, as he has taken the "essential" tanking talents in the lower tiers (the single-most important talent being Defiance). While I still feel I should be somewhat better, I have no problem with the difference being negligible or non-existant from a warrior with those 15 points. But I damn well want to be better at tanking (disregarding skill) than a warrior who expects to get to tank even though he has a total and complete focus on DPS with his talents, just as you would want to be better by speccing 15 points into Protection.

I'm not as hung up about it as you are.

How can you call yourself an Arms/Fury warrior when you have more points in Protection than in Fury?

Because my 31/13/17 spec is to emphasize my utility in raids and for guild needs. Prior to 70 and for my pre-tbc raiding experience I was 31/20/0 and tanked every boss in MC, BWL, many of the encounters in AQ40 and was one of the primary OTs in Naxx.

[Frag]

Prior to 70 and for my pre-tbc raiding experience I was 31/20/0 and tanked every boss in MC, BWL, many of the encounters in AQ40 and was one of the primary OTs in Naxx.

And he did it... with a 2h sword, pilgrim. :D

~Frag

[TheDragoon]

One could argue that dps warriors are in the same boat. If we're in tank gear than our DPS is only ok. If we're in DPS gear we don't generally last long when called upon to tank. Its the flexibility between fights that impresses me - or am I putting too much credit on druids after running with you, Arshes and company?

Oh, I agree 100%, it is the same situation. As always, gear makes a huge difference. If things aren't too tough, then you can get away with something that is not really suited for the task. But that also means you can't really do it mid-fight as some people seem to feel.

As for the credit for Druids, feel free to draw your conclusions as long as you realize that you're playing with damn good players who have geared up their characters for the roles you have seen them play. :)

If your tanking gear is radically different than your DPS gear, then please ignore the above statement and forgive my ignorance

It really is, particularly in the end-game. In my cat gear, I only run with about 10k health and 12k armor, fully buffed. I also have little-to-no crit reduction so I take some big crits. In my bear gear I usually have 14k heath and 24k armor. That's a big, big difference for a class that doesn't pick up -10% damage taken via defensive stance. A Druid cannot last long in a raid encounter if you're not in your tank gear. (for reference, I think I only use the same staff and cloak between my cat and bear gears… and that is only because I have had poor luck at getting better for my tanking gear!)

Some anecdotal evidence from the other day: On a trash pull in karazhan I was in cat form and then the tank died. I got aggro, quickly flipped to bear form and tried to tank. I was taking hits for ~1/3rd of my life whereas they were significantly less of a deal on the tank. Despite the fact that the healers quickly switched and started spam healing me, eventually I died due to the stacking heavy damage with a crit and the mob rampaged through the rest of the raid until it died. Had I been in tank gear, it wouldn't have been a big deal but I usually run with ~1200 AP with no +hit gear in bear gear while I have ~1900 AP in cat gear with maxed out +hit gear which means my DPS would take a major hit by sitting in tank gear.

You're missing something vital. If the Druid's Innervates/Rebirths are required at some point, they are definitely worth more than DPS

Quick note before we go off on a tangent, Warriors DO have some cooldown skills that are similar in power to Innervate/Rebirth if not the same use in Shield Wall, Recklessnes, Last Stand and Death Wish. Certainly, Recklessness will not help out if a healer is out of mana, but similarly Innervate will not help to burn down the last part of a boss during an enrage or survive the assault when the warrior is tanking. :)

[Kevin]

(and again, 5-mans are negligible; PETS tank 5-mans).

Pre 2.0 I pet tanked bosses in ZG with my hunter. I fully believed I could have pet tanked a boss like Garr in or Sulf in MC as well with a beast hunter pet (long lead time on aggro build). This of course assumes the pet gets healing support.

I've not seen TBC raid design, but if the pet can survive in an OT roll it actually makes more sense for the hunter pet to be the OT and let the DPS warrior or DPS druid stay DPS the whole time. People have been very dismissive of pets as tanks in the raid instances forever but they were more viable than folks think. I'm not sure that will be the case anymore as I don't think even with 13K armor, 14% dodge, 5% parry and 5% block (with only about 30 block value) will be enough mitigation with only 6K base HP (though I'm looking at potential base HP boosts from the hunter gear that don't totally kill the hunter DPS because I want to see just how far you can push it. Just like a warrior or druid or paladin tank the hunter will have to gear for it as well). I have some threat worries as well because of the mechanics. But ruling out a beast hunter pet as an OT could be a mistake and while I'm not in end game gear thinking a beast hunter doesn't offer enough DPS or group utility looks like a mistake as well. That pet damage bonus applies to casters as well. 3% more damage to the group is not insignificant.

Anyway it was just something I had to point out. Considering we pet tanked our first Hakkar kill as well. I don't expect the pet to be able to tank all the bosses and when the boss needs to move it gets even worse. But there is some potential there. But I'm preparing to have to spec Marks or Survival for max effectiveness just like I had to before (though in 2.0 a beast hunter + pet could still beat out marks and survival hunters + pet in BWL so it might still hold true).

It's just some rambling from someone who I know is in about a minority of all of 10 people. :)

[Taelas]

I, once again, completely and openly disagree with you. They still have bear form which grants armor and life. They still have access to all of the skills of a bear tank. They're not as effective as a warrior but they CAN do it.

You're completely missing the point. Yes, they have the mitigation (somewhat). What they do not have and what they cannot create out of thin air is threat. Even with the best gear, the DPS of a Restoration druid is laughable (and bears tank through damage) compared to a Feral druid--and their DPS isn't something to cheer about.

Pre-TBC, yes, Restoration druids could off-tank even with no points in Feral (though they would NOT be good at it). We had threat modifiers then. All we have now is damage and a glorified Heroic Strike.

Do your healing abilities, battle rez, buffing, etc disappear when you access the feral tree? There is TWO roles a warrior can spec into. DPS or tank for that reason ALONE the dps spec should tank as well as a feral druid.

While I tank, they might as well, yes. Except in very limited situations (what TheDragoon posted above), a Feral druid cannot innervate or rebirth while tanking. And to be perfectly frank, a Feral druid would never bring the buff with a Restoration druid along--the Restoration druid has the choice of buffing Feral or buffing MotW. Which one do you think he'll take, assuming he wants to do nothing except heal in raids?

I'm not as hung up about it as you are.

Obviously.

Because my 31/13/17 spec is to emphasize my utility in raids and for guild needs. Prior to 70 and for my pre-tbc raiding experience I was 31/20/0 and tanked every boss in MC, BWL, many of the encounters in AQ40 and was one of the primary OTs in Naxx.

I see.

[TheDragoon]

Utility? I don't think anyone can succesfully argue that an Arms/Fury Warrior brings anywhere near the utility that a Feral Druid does. And the DPS difference? Puh-lease. The DPS loss from a Feral Druid is, I wager, made up with LotP. Throw a Rogue in the Druid's group and bam, the DPS difference is gone. If not made up, made so inconsequential, that the utility the Druid brings makes Arms/Fury Warriors as top OT choice a thing of the past.

Define utility. :) If you mean versatility, then sure, Druids win (and should win since they are one of the most diversified classes in the game). However, I would note that versatility is not the same as utility. Warriors bring utility in the form of a tanking, DPS, and party buffs. A warrior can add a boatload of AP for their group through battle shout or health through the other shout (commanding shout?). In addition, they also bring the Thunderclap debuff (now also from defensive stance) that significantly reduces melee damage taken and Arms warriors have the debuff that increases damage done to mobs by other classes. Compared with those, Druids have mark of the wild (which really isn't that spectacular though it is good) and LotP (which is very, very good). But when it comes right down to it, a shout + thunderclap is a major party buff that I would certainly include as "utility."

I, once again, completely and openly disagree with you. They still have bear form which grants armor and life. They still have access to all of the skills of a bear tank. They're not as effective as a warrior but they CAN do it.

I'm going to mildly disagree with you here. The base Druid is very poor at tanking. They might be able to hold some aggro and mitigate some damage but any other tanking class will do it better if in comparable levels of gear. The fact that Druid talents are very powerful compared to talents from other classes is that Druids have a much farther way to go.

To illustrate how I feel the classes match up (in the current world), here is a completely arbitrary scale based on no hard evidence beyond my knowledge of how the classes play and how their talents stack up. The scale is 1 (poor at tanking) to 10 (zomg uber tank):
1: Balance Druid (they don't even get +10% damage!)
2: Resto Druid
3: Retribution Pally
4: Holy Pally
5: 0/31/30 Druid hybrid, Arms/Fury or Fury/Arms Warrior
6: Arms/Prot Warrior
7: Fury/Prot Warrior
8: Prot Pally (honestly I haven't played with many but they might be fair to include as a 9 or 10, as well)
9: Prot Warrior
10: Feral Druid

Here is what I fear it will look like in the next patch if Druid threat isn't scaled:
-3: Balance Druid (they don't even get +10% damage!)
-1: Resto Druid
3: Retribution Pally, 0/31/30 Druid hybrid
4: Holy Pally
5: Arms/Fury or Fury/Arms Warrior
6: Arms/Prot Warrior, Feral Druid
7: Fury/Prot Warrior
8: Prot Pally (honestly I haven't played with many but they might be fair to include as a 9 or 10, as well)
9:
10: Prot Warrior

And finally, this is the way I think they should stack up if it were an ideal world:
1: Balance Druid (they don't even get +10% damage!)
2: Resto Druid
3:
4:
5: Retribution Pally
6: Arms/Fury, Fury/Arms Warrior, or Holy Pally
7: 0/31/30 Druid hybrid
8: Fury/Prot Warrior, Arms/Prot Warrior
9:
10: Feral Druid, Prot Warrior, Prot Pally

[ima_nerd]

Define utility. :) If you mean versatility, then sure, Druids win (and should win since they are one of the most diversified classes in the game). However, I would note that versatility is not the same as utility. Warriors bring utility in the form of a tanking, DPS, and party buffs. A warrior can add a boatload of AP for their group through battle shout or health through the other shout (commanding shout?). In addition, they also bring the Thunderclap debuff (now also from defensive stance) that significantly reduces melee damage taken and Arms warriors have the debuff that increases damage done to mobs by other classes. Compared with those, Druids have mark of the wild (which really isn't that spectacular though it is good) and LotP (which is very, very good). But when it comes right down to it, a shout + thunderclap is a major party buff that I would certainly include as "utility."

I'm assuming a Warrior MT and with TClap in Defensive stance, Warrior OTs no longer bring that. LotP is, I am willing to bet, a larger DPS increase than BS and the healing from Imp LotP is better than an increased HP pool from CS. Healer mana is a precious commodity:)Of course, if you bring the Feral Druid over the Warrior... you have an Innervate!:D

Quick note before we go off on a tangent, Warriors DO have some cooldown skills that are similar in power to Innervate/Rebirth if not the same use in Shield Wall, Recklessnes, Last Stand and Death Wish. Certainly, Recklessness will not help out if a healer is out of mana, but similarly Innervate will not help to burn down the last part of a boss during an enrage or survive the assault when the warrior is tanking.

Shield Wall and Last Stand, while nice, don't have the power, in my opinion, that Rebirth/Innervate do. They can save a tank's life but the problem that caused him to almost die in the first place is still there. Innervate/Rebirth fix the base problem - a healer is dead/OOM. As to the rest of Warrior's cooldowns... they're DPS boosting abilities. In those "Oh shi-" situations, more DPS is very rarely a solution. Not to mention the DPS boost they provide is minimal (0 DPS, even when increased by 1000% is still 0:))

It really is, particularly in the end-game. In my cat gear, I only run with about 10k health and 12k armor, fully buffed. I also have little-to-no crit reduction so I take some big crits. In my bear gear I usually have 14k heath and 24k armor. That's a big, big difference for a class that doesn't pick up -10% damage taken via defensive stance. A Druid cannot last long in a raid encounter if you're not in your tank gear. (for reference, I think I only use the same staff and cloak between my cat and bear gears… and that is only because I have had poor luck at getting better for my tanking gear!)

Ok, good to know. My experience in running with a Feral Druid was all non-raiding instances at level 60. He would always lament how so much of the "best" Feral gear in the game consisted of blues from subraiding instances. I suppose it was that lack of itemization that gave him basically one set for DPS/tanking.

[ima_nerd]

To illustrate how I feel the classes match up (in the current world), here is a completely arbitrary scale based on no hard evidence beyond my knowledge of how the classes play and how their talents stack up. The scale is 1 (poor at tanking) to 10 (zomg uber tank):

-snip-

Here would be my optimal-perfect-world-won'thappeninabillionyears tanking ranking:
1: Balance Druid (they don't even get +10% damage!)
2: Resto Druid
3:
4:
5:
6: Holy Pally
7: 0/31/30 Druid hybrid, Arms/Fury, Fury/Arms Warrior, Retribution Pally
8: Fury/Prot Warrior, Arms/Prot Warrior (30 in Prot, 31 in the other tree)
9:Feral Druid, Prot Pally
10: Prot Warrior

Holy Pally brings far more than a Ret Pally because, c'mon, Pally DPS is pathetic. Ret Pallies should be better at tanking to compensate. At 7 should be all the DPS Warriors, Ret Pallies and the Hybrid Druid. Warriors who sink 30 points in Protection deserve that 8 spot due the amount of soloability/DPS they lost. I don't think a Druid or Pally, no matter the spec, should be better than a full Prot specced Warrior. Hands down. Never. No matter how much they may whine about this or that, the fact remains they have utility the Warrior will never be able to match.

Edit: moved Pallies around.

[Taelas]

I'd just like to add the note that Balance druids actually are better at creating threat than Restoration druids, they just don't have the same mitigation. Yeah, a Balance druid can tank via DPS, assuming people are careful. So I'd probably put them equal.

My own "ideal" tanking list:
1. Restoration druids, Balance druids, Retribution paladins, Holy paladins.
2. Protection/Retribution paladins, Protection/Holy paladins, Feral/Restoration druids, Feral/Balance druids, Arms/Fury warriors, Fury/Arms warriors.
3. Arms/Protection warriors, Fury/Protection warriors.
4. Feral druids, Protection paladins.
5. Protection warriors.

EDIT: Changed it a bit after some additional thinking.

[Legedi]

Here would be my optimal-perfect-world-won'thappeninabillionyears tanking ranking:
1: Balance Druid (they don't even get +10% damage!)
2: Resto Druid
3:
4:
5:
6: Holy Pally
7: 0/31/30 Druid hybrid, Arms/Fury, Fury/Arms Warrior, Retribution Pally
8: Fury/Prot Warrior, Arms/Prot Warrior (30 in Prot, 31 in the other tree)
9:Feral Druid, Prot Pally
10: Prot Warrior

Holy Pally brings far more than a Ret Pally because, c'mon, Pally DPS is pathetic. Ret Pallies should be better at tanking to compensate. At 7 should be all the DPS Warriors, Ret Pallies and the Hybrid Druid. Warriors who sink 30 points in Protection deserve that 8 spot due the amount of soloability/DPS they lost. I don't think a Druid or Pally, no matter the spec, should be better than a full Prot specced Warrior. Hands down. Never. No matter how much they may whine about this or that, the fact remains they have utility the Warrior will never be able to match.

Edit: moved Pallies around.

I have to aggre with this. Stating that warriors bring buffs/debuffs that are valuable to a group when not tanking is like saying bringing a holy paladin to a group are valuable for only buffs, but not healing. If a protection warrior that isn't tanking there isn't an single class of any other spec that wouldn't be more usefull.

This doesn't even include aspects of a protection warrior outside group PvE. They suck at solo stuff (sure some warriors say they can grind protection, and I've tried. I tried grinding in DPS gear DW and with a shield. I tried in tank gear. It sucks. It is a shadow of what grinding is like arms or fury.) They suck at PvP. I'd like to see a class of any other build that is as worthless at PvP.

So protection warriors give up 2/3 of the game so they can tank. And your saying that feral druids (which do great grinding and in PvP) and protection paladins (don't really know how they do grinding, or in PvP. But I can't imagine it is worse than protection warriors) should be just as good.

And blizzard has stated that this is wrong. That's why they are making these changes. They have also stated they want feral druids and protection paladins to be able tanks. If for some reason druids can't tank because of these changes I'd expect some buffs back.

[Taelas]

If for some reason druids can't tank because of these changes I'd expect some buffs back.

Heh. They're claiming this is due to "internal testing" which "showed the druids' damage to be too high" (paraphrasing). That's AFTER telling us pre-TBC that they were testing extensively in order to make sure everyone did the right amount of DPS.

The amount to which Feral druids are being nerfed shows either, a.) Blizzard can't put 2 and 2 together (which I find unlikely), b.) a philosophy change (something like "Feral druids are not supposed to be competitive tanks") (which I find extremely underhanded), or c.) a knee-jerk reaction in response to 2/5ths of their population crying for nerfs and threatening to reroll/quit/whatever.

[Tuftears]

I don't think I'm the resto druid in question since Tal spoke of the druid tanking a heroic instance, but just in case... I'm 33 resto/28 feral.

The key feral talents available for tanking, I took:

* 5/5 Ferocity - reduces rage cost of most skills by 5
* 3/3 Feral Instinct - +15% threat
* 3/3 Thick Hide - +12% armor
* 1/1 Feral Charge
* 2/2 Feral Swiftness - +4% dodge in bear form
* 3/3 Sharpened Claws - +6% crit
* 2/2 Primal Fury - gain 5 rage on crits
* 3/3 Survival of the Fittest - -3% chance to be crit in bear form, +3% to all stats

I don't feel that I'm as tough as a full feral tank, who will have taken 5/5 Heart of the Wild (+20% stamina) and Predatory Instinct (+crit), but it's not a bad compromise set.

I do have largely separate bear gear and cat gear, for obvious reasons.

[ima_nerd]

Heh. They're claiming this is due to "internal testing" which "showed the druids' damage to be too high" (paraphrasing). That's AFTER telling us pre-TBC that they were testing extensively in order to make sure everyone did the right amount of DPS.

The amount to which Feral druids are being nerfed shows either, a.) Blizzard can't put 2 and 2 together (which I find unlikely), b.) a philosophy change (something like "Feral druids are not supposed to be competitive tanks") (which I find extremely underhanded), or c.) a knee-jerk reaction in response to 2/5ths of their population crying for nerfs and threatening to reroll/quit/whatever.

Could it be that there is going to be definitive, epic Druid tanking gear in the future? Would that help with the problems the nerf caused?

Also, welcome to the Lounge, Alliera:)Based on this thread, I hope you stick around and continue to contribute to discussions.

[Tal]

I don't think I'm the resto druid in question since Tal spoke of the druid tanking a heroic instance, but just in case... I'm 33 resto/28 feral.

You're not but an awesome druid all on your own.:)

[Taelas]

Could it be that there is going to be definitive, epic Druid tanking gear in the future? Would that help with the problems the nerf caused?

I don't see it--the biggest problem with the nerf is a serious loss of threat capability. In order to fix that, epic druid tanking gear would have to provide a substantial amount of DPS over other options (or some other ways of generating threat).

Also, welcome to the Lounge, Alliera:)Based on this thread, I hope you stick around and continue to contribute to discussions.

Thanks--I'll definitely stick around.:)I like this place from what I've seen so far.

[TheDragoon]

I have to aggre with this. Stating that warriors bring buffs/debuffs that are valuable to a group when not tanking is like saying bringing a holy paladin to a group are valuable for only buffs, but not healing. If a protection warrior that isn't tanking there isn't an single class of any other spec that wouldn't be more usefull

The buffs that warriors bring are the same regardless of what they are doing. The fact that you need 2 warriors to have both the +health (which I think ima_nerd is not valuing enough) and +ap buffs (which is awesome) just means that they will certainly be useful. Add in the fact that prot warrior DPS has been vastly improved and I do not believe that the situation is as grim as you portray it.

This doesn't even include aspects of a protection warrior outside group PvE. They suck at solo stuff (sure some warriors say they can grind protection, and I've tried. I tried grinding in DPS gear DW and with a shield. I tried in tank gear. It sucks. It is a shadow of what grinding is like arms or fury.) They suck at PvP. I'd like to see a class of any other build that is as worthless at PvP.

So protection warriors give up 2/3 of the game so they can tank. And your saying that feral druids (which do great grinding and in PvP) and protection paladins (don't really know how they do grinding, or in PvP. But I can't imagine it is worse than protection warriors) should be just as good.

Grinding ease has clearly never been part of Blizzard's equation (how else would you explain hunters and warlocks versus things like a holy priest) so I think you can throw that out of this argument entirely. Just because you don't feel you are powerful enough in grinding or PvP doesn't mean you can get away with throwing out a blanket statement like saying all protection warriors are useless for all of those instances. But perception is everything, isn't it? Given that my initial testing didn't really jive with your first point and that I have found plenty of people who enjoy protection warriors in PvP and feel they are quite powerful, it really seems like you're falling into the grass is greener trap. :)

And blizzard has stated that this is wrong. That's why they are making these changes. They have also stated they want feral druids and protection paladins to be able tanks. If for some reason druids can't tank because of these changes I'd expect some buffs back.

Actually, what Blizzard said was that Druid DPS was too much while in bear form, and it was. I would hope that they will be given back a large portion of the threat, however, or bear tanking will be relegated to a definitive second class citizen status.

[TheDragoon]

Could it be that there is going to be definitive, epic Druid tanking gear in the future? Would that help with the problems the nerf caused?

This has been the only reason I can come up with for the nerf to mitigation. Currently, bears were still behind warriors in mitigation but have no epic gear (outside of the arena stuff) to upgrade to, for the most part.

However, this certainly doesn't explain the threat nerf as fixing the itemization problems would tend to trade some threat for mitigation (currently gear has a lot more strength or AP than it needs and not nearly enough stamina or armor, for the most part) which would exacerbate the problem. :(

[Tal]

I would hope that they will be given back a large portion of the threat, however, or bear tanking will be relegated to a definitive second class citizen status.

They definitely need to as that would be out of line with paladin tanking.

[Kevin]

Actually, what Blizzard said was that Druid DPS was too much while in bear form, and it was. I would hope that they will be given back a large portion of the threat, however, or bear tanking will be relegated to a definitive second class citizen status.

I agree here too and I mentioned it earlier. The damage nerfs look fine. The threat nerfs don't after seeing more of it in action. Putting extra threat back on swipe/maul/mangle/lacerate (some of them all of them could be made to work either way) could potentially help the other spec druids move up the tanking tree a bit adding more value to a hybrid. Paladins and warriors get some of this from the base. You put up righteous fury or go to def stance you get a threat boost no matter what. Paladins/warriors put on the shield to up the defensive stats. Druids get the armor and life. But you'll not that while pallies and warriors get boosts to mit and threat the druid only gets boost to mit from the base stuff. You either need to change the base bear form or change some of the basic skills, like putting extra threat (and it doesn't have to scale it can be static threat so you don't run into the issues that you had with the tank spec druids) on those skills.

So far they haven't done that yet. But yeah I mentioned that as possibly being needed from the get go.