2.1.0 Patch Notes

[vor_lord]

HELLO! Interesting - not only is Binding Heal now a wonderful spell, it also can't be stuttered by damage on a holy-spec'ed Priest with the Hallowed set. This makes it the number 1 "oh crap" heal after Desperate Prayer.

So let's see, our oh crap heals are... an Alliance-only priest racial (yay), and one dependent on a blue set bonus? I'm overjoyed.

Yeah, right now I do have this set bonus. I'm not a hardcore raider and it'll take a while to replace. Binding heal will now actually be put on my bar. But three months from now this is going to be not interesting at all. Just make binding heal be non-stutterable, or at least 30% non-stutterable.

And WOOT!!!! +25 to Circle of Healing! Goodbye Divine Spirit, here comes AoE instant cast healing godliness!!!!

[NotSoDarklord]

No longer will I have to rely on sprint and the upgraded rocket boots to sap without dying twice every 5 minutes because I chose to spec combat mutilate.

[Concillian]

I didn't run Kara w/ the Prot build. I ran most of last fridy morning as a 5/15/41 build. I was doing about 400DPS duel-wielding in instances with WF totem. I swapped back to 0/43/18 in the afternoon and was doing near 500DPS with the same crew of people. At the time I had about 1370AP, 10%Hit, 19%Crit and I use Vindicator's Brand Main Hand and Latro's Shifting Sword Offhand.

Sorry, I was confused, I thought you meant Kara when you talked to me before. It should be noted that raid DPS will generally improve just from having more time with more sunders than in a normal 5-man. The difference between 0 sunder and 5 sunders is about 90DPS in full devastate spam mode (35 per sunder * 5 /1.5 = 117 * 0.75 (armor) = 88 DPS

Fury should also have similar "wind up" issues though, as you need time to get rampage maxed, though 250AP is probably more like 40 DPS instead of 80-90 that 5 sunders is, so it's a little better "right off the bat".

In my DPS gear, the change to devastate would bring 5x sunder devastate damage for me from 550 (before armor) to 812 (before armor) if you go with 5/5 DW spec, 5/5 commanding, and the DPS talents in prot. This is ~175 DPS improvement... though less in actuality due to armor.
As a comparison, in the same gear with rampage and imp berserker stance AP buffs put BT damage at 1063 per 6 seconds... a TOTAL of 177 DPS... though my weapons are pretty much ideal for this kind of talent usage (MH 2.7 speed epic macecrafter mace / OH 2.6 speed epic Aldor reward).
Anyway you slice it this change is pretty huge. I was on the verge of switching prot just for the added utility anyway. Now I can't help but switch. My DPS should be equivalent or better to what it is now and my 5-man usage should be much, much more flexible.

And yes, with WF totem, the prot build will have more rage than they know what to do with, while the fury build has a few more options on where to spend it. The prot build is very rage efficient, with much better rage per damage than bloodthirst, but it takes 2 GCDs before you get damage equal to 1 bloodthirst, so you run out of GCDs and then Fury starts pulling ahead. With the devastate change, prot gets better scaling with AP and maxed cooldown usage. I'm working through some of the changes now to figure out how much the effect is. Fury also receives a flurry nerf in comparing the two directly.

[WimpySmurf]

Sorry, I was confused, I thought you meant Kara when you talked to me before. It should be noted that raid DPS will generally improve just from having more time with more sunders than in a normal 5-man. The difference between 0 sunder and 5 sunders is about 90DPS in full devastate spam mode (35 per sunder * 5 /1.5 = 117 * 0.75 (armor) = 88 DPS

Fury should also have similar "wind up" issues though, as you need time to get rampage maxed, though 250AP is probably more like 40 DPS instead of 80-90 that 5 sunders is, so it's a little better "right off the bat".

And yes, with WF totem, the prot build will have more rage than they know what to do with, while the fury build has a few more options on where to spend it. The prot build is very rage efficient, with much better rage per damage than bloodthirst, but it takes 2 GCDs before you get damage equal to 1 bloodthirst, so you run out of GCDs and then Fury starts pulling ahead. With the devastate change, prot gets better scaling with AP and maxed cooldown usage. I'm working through some of the changes now to figure out how much the effect is. Fury also receives a flurry nerf in comparing the two directly.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Yeah, with the Flurry nerf and the Devestate increase you could definately see the two builds being much close in DPS with the same gearing. I didn't notice aggro issues with Devestate by itself, once you start hitting with both weapons, you might see more aggro issues. (unless the additional threat from devestate is only based on the sunder count, though the actual damage increase will cause more aggro too:D)

The change to Glancing could help mitigate the DPS loss from Flurry haste reduction over the Prot build. A Fury warrior tends to see about 50% of his damage coming from white DPS. ie.

Code:

Currently my spreadsheet estimates are:
DPS
65       22% Hit  
107      18% Crit
75       40% Glance @ 65% Avg Dmg
------------------
~285 White DPS (counting Flurry buff)

Say they reduce it to 1% chance per weapon skill difference then, my white DPS would actually goes up ~10DPS with the Flurry nerf. More white damge = more WW and BT so overall DPS would increase.

-WimpySmurf

[Concillian]

It's hard to say what is going to happen with glancing blows. "near character level" could mean +1, +2, +3 or +5. I know I see glancings against stuff on the elemental plateau. It's possible that the patch notes mean that the change will affect stuff like that, but not change +3 mobs (raid bosses).

I'm trying to not be very optimistic about the glancing blow changes until I have more details. The patch notes are very vague on this.

As for comparing the two builds, they aren't going to be too different really, because both gain white damage if glancings happen less. Fury likely gains more from the rage. White damage is slightly higher on the Fury build because of flurry, but prot isn't that far behind if you also pick up DW spec and 1H spec.

[WimpySmurf]

It's hard to say what is going to happen with glancing blows. "near character level" could mean +1, +2, +3 or +5. I know I see glancings against stuff on the elemental plateau. It's possible that the patch notes mean that the change will affect stuff like that, but not change +3 mobs (raid bosses).

I'm trying to not be very optimistic about the glancing blow changes until I have more details. The patch notes are very vague on this.

As for comparing the two builds, they aren't going to be too different really, because both gain white damage if glancings happen less. Fury likely gains more from the rage. White damage is slightly higher on the Fury build because of flurry, but prot isn't that far behind if you also pick up DW spec and 1H spec.

Yeah, it could just be that they're reducing the base %glance from 10 -> 5 or something like that.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes for you. I know I felt like I was doing much more DPS as Fury then Prot (in addition to recap reporting more) but, you've also got the offhand for a duel-wield Devastate build.

-WimpySmurf

[Concillian]

My initial reaction:

Devastate change: I'd be surprised if a devastate isn't the best DPS option for non-T5 equipped warriors for raid DPS now. Wimpy changed from Fury to Prot when he saw my spreadsheet showing comparable Prot DPS to Fury. He said he only dropped about 30 DPS or so in Karazhan. This buff to Devastate will be more than 30DPS. Other builds don't start doing better than Prot until Prot is limited by the GCD for devastate spam (or it hits the threat ceiling with the extra 67 TPS from the devastate spam).

Yeah, that didn't last...

Devastate change was already removed from the patch notes listed at this address:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/...patchnotes.html

People are noting major issues with devastate on PTR (hitting with nothing when 1H + shield) so it looks like they screwed up in removing the change.

It appears that they decided to change revenge instead:

"Revenge": This ability has been modified to do substantially more damage. The threat bonuses have been adjusted so that the threat generated remains relatively unchanged.

[Taelas]

What? That sucks! I liked the Devastate change.

[Concillian]

What? That sucks! I liked the Devastate change.

Yeah, but if that went live it wouldn't have been long before it got nerfed again. I mean it would have made prot into a one tree wonder. Damage, tanking, some PvP viability in the damage and conc blow (it's no Mortal strike, but hey).

It would have been nice, but I think people who liked it may be underestimating exactly how much damage it would have added. It wouldn't have been long before Fury warriors switched to prot to DPS... and that would just be wrong.

[Taelas]

It couldn't have added *that* much more. Off-hands are already at 50% damage, 75% with full DW. Even with full DW, it's just 37.5% weapon damage extra. Of course you can Devastate on every GCD, but you can't sustain enough rage to keep it up. With my warrior I can't Devastate on every cooldown when I'm soloing, even if I start out with a full rage bar... and I should be getting more rage while I'm on my own as I presumably won't get hit while in a group. Though I haven't tested it specifically for that purpose, so I might be remembering wrong... probably added some heroic strikes. I'll have to do so.

[Malakar]

Interesting PVP trinket changes. I think all of them will improve arena survivability.

Of special note is how this will affect warlock vs rogue in 1v1 world pvp. Warlocks now have a way to get rid of stun or crippling poison, and undead rogues can't break seduce twice.

I wonder if this is a clever response to warlock whines, or just a bi-product of arena changes.

[Concillian]

With my warrior I can't Devastate on every cooldown when I'm soloing, even if I start out with a full rage bar... and I should be getting more rage while I'm on my own as I presumably won't get hit while in a group.

Are you outfitting yourself in real DPS gear? It sounds to me like your gear is not really DPS gear or you aren't dual-wielding.

For reference, if I was prot, my DW DPS gear would be around 1600 AP (before battleshout), low ~20% crit and 10-11% ish on hit, this is the kinds of setup I'm talking about, not a tanking warrior who mixes in a few DPS items. I am pretty sure I could support devastate in my gear, and when Wimpy played with prot as DPS for a day he also had no problems supporting it in his DPS gear.

Also, you should reply to the post you are talking about rather than the main post, the way you're replying right now makes things look really funky in forum outline view.

[Taelas]

Are you outfitting yourself in real DPS gear? It sounds to me like your gear is not really DPS gear or you aren't dual-wielding.

For reference, if I was prot, my DW DPS gear would be around 1600 AP (before battleshout), low ~20% crit and 10-11% ish on hit, this is the kinds of setup I'm talking about, not a tanking warrior who mixes in a few DPS items. I am pretty sure I could support devastate in my gear, and when Wimpy played with prot as DPS for a day he also had no problems supporting it in his DPS gear.

Yes, I'm in DPS gear, and yes, I'm DWing. Like I said, though, I probably threw in a couple Heroic Strikes; I haven't tried doing only Devastates with a full rage bar.

I'm also only level 63 on my warrior. A little over 1k AP before Battleshout, I believe, with just under 15% crit (without Cruelty; 2/0/52). Not exactly great gear, and some of the items are the same as my tanking gear (such as Boots of Might).

I still don't see how it would deal too much damage. I mean, even with Devastate on every global cooldown, it can't add more than, say, 60-70 DPS over the current Devastate. Significant, sure, but I don't really see it as competitive compared to a full Fury build. Would be great for Prot grinding, though.

The Revenge change just seems really stupid to me--Revenge wasn't meant to deal damage, and there's no way I'd grind in Defensive stance.

Also, you should reply to the post you are talking about rather than the main post, the way you're replying right now makes things look really funky in forum outline view.

Meh, I always view forums in threaded-mode, so I don't really notice that problem.

[Warlock]

I imagine the Revenge change is intended to raise Warrior tanking DPS particularly in 5-mans (as was the Devastate change but they moved the planned extra DPS from Devastate to Revenge so that any tanking Warrior gets it and not just Prot builds). This will bring tanking-warrior damage closer to tanking-druid/paladin damage just as those classes are getting closer to warriors in threat and survivability.

[Mavfin]

Yes, I'm in DPS gear, and yes, I'm DWing. Like I said, though, I probably threw in a couple Heroic Strikes; I haven't tried doing only Devastates with a full rage bar.

Well, I'm prot (8/5/48), and in my DPS gear (all Outland blues/greens, no raid gear), which isn't as good as Conc's, I'm about 6.5% hit, right at 20% crit in battle stance, and about 1500 AP before buffs. I've got a Doomblood Eviscerator mainhand (2.6 speed 71.7 DPS claw), and I can crit devastate for 800 on a sundered target. Yeah, dual wield devastate might have been a little ugly adding in my offhand claw.:DGive me Blessing of Might if a pally is along, and I can really crank it up. 1800 AP makes for nasty devastates.

[Taelas]

Well, I'm prot (8/5/48), and in my DPS gear (all Outland blues/greens, no raid gear), which isn't as good as Conc's, I'm about 6.5% hit, right at 20% crit in battle stance, and about 1500 AP before buffs. I've got a Doomblood Eviscerator mainhand (2.6 speed 71.7 DPS claw), and I can crit devastate for 800 on a sundered target. Yeah, dual wield devastate might have been a little ugly adding in my offhand claw.:DGive me Blessing of Might if a pally is along, and I can really crank it up. 1800 AP makes for nasty devastates.

Heh, that is pretty nice... But even with an off-hand identical to your main-hand, you wouldn't do more than around ~75 more damage uncrit. Yes, it's a great boost, but I'm pretty sure a cookie-cutter 17/41/3 build would do more.

[Concillian]

Heh, that is pretty nice... But even with an off-hand identical to your main-hand, you wouldn't do more than around ~75 more damage uncrit. Yes, it's a great boost, but I'm pretty sure a cookie-cutter 17/41/3 build would do more.

when you factor in AP it's more like 175-200 more per hit, which makes it pretty close to Bloodthirst, but for only 12 rage and no cooldown.

[Taelas]

when you factor in AP it's more like 175-200 more per hit, which makes it pretty close to Bloodthirst, but for only 12 rage and no cooldown.

Right, I messed up my calculations.

Devastate deals 50% damage. An average attack will therefore deal
(Weapon_Damage + (Normalized_Weapon_Speed * Attack_Power/14)/2 + 25

Using Mavfin's numbers as an example (and giving him an OH identical to the MH):

Main-hand: (2.6*71.7 + (2.4*1500/14))/2 + 25 = ~246
Off-hand: MH/2 = ~123

That'd be the average without crits, before armor... Unless I'm missing something completely obvious.:P

And Bloodthirst is 45% AP. That's ... 675 with the same numbers, even more with Improved Berserker Stance. Hm.

Nope, I still believe a 17/41/3 build would be superior.:P

[Warlock]

Potential "obvious": You can do four Devastates per Bloodthirst cooldown (though doing so prevents use of other GCD skills).

[Taelas]

Potential "obvious": You can do four Devastates per Bloodthirst cooldown (though doing so prevents use of other GCD skills).

I am aware.

You won't have the following, however:
-Improved Overpower
-Deep Wounds
-Impale
-Commanding Presence
-Dual Wield Specialization
-Enrage
-Flurry
-Death Wish
-Improved Berserker Stance
-Rampage

All of which add substantially to your DPS.

The Fury build I'm assuming is this 17/41/3 build, by the way.

Sigh. I've wanted to try a Fury build for my warrior for ages, but I'm a lousy tank without my Shield Slam.