BlizzCon: New content playable on Friday

[oldmandennis]

Even more bones to chew on;)

http://pc.ign.com/articles/809/809350p1.html

I'd be shocked if there were hero classes. They dropped that idea a long time ago. It's just too hard to balance - everybody wants to be a hero, and to balance content properly you would have to assume everybody was one. At that point, no matter how hard it is, most raiders are on that grind. Then try dropping the hero's into an arena.....

It probably goes without saying, but they can't just give all the classes 10 more points. Can you imagine a warrior with BT and MS? /cower

WRT Tranquillen - it wouldn't be that hard to fix. Remember, these are not groups of 40, or even 25. Just bump the guards up to level 70, and don't give the allies a place to repair. Even 2-3 defenders should be able to hold off the allies if they have help from guards. The durability hits should convince people not to screw around before the raid too much.

What exactly went into the MPQ's in 2.1?

[Monkey]

On a wild tangent, am I the only one that thinks Zul'aman is the most ridiculous idea they've come up with so far? That it's a raid instance featuring trolls isn't what I mean (hey, Zul'gurub rocked); I mean that it's a raid instance for both factions located inside a Horde zone. This won't really impact people leveling in Ghostlands very much unless the Allies decide to camp Tranquillien while waiting on the rest of their raid (and that will happen), but I know that I'll be setting up a tent city at the EPL portal, ganking and camping Allies porting in.

Let's take a look at how your camping plan scales. Here are the factors:

1. Optimistically, you're looking at peak numbers of 40 raids (or less) in a night for ZA.
2. ZA has a Summoning Stone: Only two people per Alliance raid will come through the portal.
3. It's a PvP server: Druids, rogues, and mages will come through stealthed/invisible.
4. It's a PvP server: Half of your potential opponents will be expecting a fight.

In addition to the above, I've assumed even distributions:
40 *2 = 80 total alliance at the peak
80 *66% = 53 Alliance you can see
53 *50% = 27 Alliance not prepared for you

So you'll have the opportunity to gank-and-camp 6.7% of the total Alliance raiders headed to Zul'Aman. And they'll come through the portal over a 3-4 hour time period.

As an Alliance player on a PvP server, I endorse your plan! :shuriken:

[Quark]

Methinks some people are deliberately planting false information. Check out http://www.mmo-champion.com/ -> "Wrath of the Lich King"

I'd be shocked if there were hero classes. They dropped that idea a long time ago. It's just too hard to balance - everybody wants to be a hero, and to balance content properly you would have to assume everybody was one. At that point, no matter how hard it is, most raiders are on that grind. Then try dropping the hero's into an arena.....

I dunno. The idea of "hero" is pretty relative, it doesn't have to mean overpowered. The problem with balance is 27 instead of 9. The rest of the IGN report doesn't fit well with other observations, though. And yeah, they said "hero classes" as they originally intended were pretty much dead. Doesn't mean they didn't redesign them, though.

It probably goes without saying, but they can't just give all the classes 10 more points. Can you imagine a warrior with BT and MS? /cower

This was said last time - but in most of those cases Blizzard either moved around talents to prevent it, or made the higher ends of the tree that much more appealing.

10 more points would make dagger choices interesting. Mutilate would be able to put every new point into extra damage, one of those being Blade Flurry.

What exactly went into the MPQ's in 2.1?

A good post about it here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=100.0

[nobbie]

The title of the next WoW expansion has just been confirmed on the website of the German computer games control society;)



"GC Demo" means that this is the playable xpac demo we will be seeing on the German Games Convention in Leipzig.

[oldmandennis]

I dunno. The idea of "hero" is pretty relative, it doesn't have to mean overpowered.

But it has to mean *something*. And once it does, the hard math checks need to be uptuned to reflect that reality. Plus it can't be that difficult - Johnny casual needs to be able to be a Mountain King or a Dark Ranger. The whole game is pretty much based casuals being allowed to play. Combine a noticeable boost in power with something that is achievable to casuals, and it becomes mandatory for any raider with hopes of seeing the end of the game. Essentially you have just extended the level curve, and probably put a (semi)permanant choice at the end of it. But the level curve is the way it is because Blizzard thinks it is about right, and they already have a semi-permant choice (talents).

The whole idea of hero classes in a game where everybody wants to be a hero is very tricky. Has anybody ever done it right? I know Starwars tried it, and it was a disaster which they eventually scrapped.

This was said last time - but in most of those cases Blizzard either moved around talents to prevent it, or made the higher ends of the tree that much more appealing.

Yeah I know. My point is that they will need a bunch of testing on this. For example rogues vs feral druids is probably balanced properly right now. I'm not that familliar with rogues, but you seem to think that 10 more points would give you a big boost. 10 points would do about nothing for a feral druid, other then a little pvp utility. I don't think adjustments are impossible, just that it's one reason why I don't think the expansion is less then 8 months off, even if it's announced later this week. Remember, TBC raiding, except for Kara, was horribly untuned. Hey, I think I'll go preorder Hellgate. The gameplay trailer looks amazing.

A good post about it here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=100.0

I had heard they were starting to put northrend stuff into the MPQ's. I was more looking for hints of another TBC top end raid. Northrend will take 7-8 months minimum. In that time, Conan, Pirates, Hellgate, and Warhammer will ship. Hopefully they turn out better then Vanguard and Lotro.

[Delc]

But it has to mean *something*. And once it does, the hard math checks need to be uptuned to reflect that reality. Plus it can't be that difficult - Johnny casual needs to be able to be a Mountain King or a Dark Ranger. The whole game is pretty much based casuals being allowed to play. Combine a noticeable boost in power with something that is achievable to casuals, and it becomes mandatory for any raider with hopes of seeing the end of the game. Essentially you have just extended the level curve, and probably put a (semi)permanant choice at the end of it. But the level curve is the way it is because Blizzard thinks it is about right, and they already have a semi-permant choice (talents).

It could just be a new leveling system post 70. Instead of becoming a level 71 warrior you become a 71 berserker. You could get your 61 points in the warrior talent trees, and 1 in the berserker trees or something. This would allow them to add extra levels, classes, and talents, without having to try and balance the old talent trees for another 10 points.

[Quark]

Yeah I know. My point is that they will need a bunch of testing on this. For example rogues vs feral druids is probably balanced properly right now. I'm not that familliar with rogues, but you seem to think that 10 more points would give you a big boost. 10 points would do about nothing for a feral druid, other then a little pvp utility. I don't think adjustments are impossible, just that it's one reason why I don't think the expansion is less then 8 months off, even if it's announced later this week.

I didn't say it would gives Rogues a big boost, I said it would give Mutilate a big boost. Mutilate right now simply isn't a raiding build. Unfortunately, people haven't really tried Tier5/6 Mutilate for two reasons - poison immune mobs and Blade Flurry. So I can't say how out of line it is with Combat at that point, but from my Tier4 findings it's a decent amount behind. Just going to level 80 like we got to 70, taking current targets, Combat Dagger would probably switch to a weird hybrid Seal Fate/Combat Dagger build making the comparison basically "Is Mutilate with Opportunity better than Combat Dagger with Combat Potency?" I'm not sure, but Mutilate might be able to win that comparison.

You'd think Combat Swords, the current strongest, would gain a ton from getting Seal Fate, but its gained CP from Seal Fate will end up much lower because of the lower crit rate compared to Backstab, and the dual-hit nature of Mutilate. Combat Swords would more likely be the one to gain the most from new Combat talents, because it can give up Assassination talents the easiest and doesn't ever even consider Subtlety.

Remember, TBC raiding, except for Kara, was horribly untuned. Hey, I think I'll go preorder Hellgate. The gameplay trailer looks amazing.

It was, yes, but one patch pretty much cleaned up the vast majority of raiding issues - both class and encounter based. The problem was the patch took too long.

[Legedi]

It was, yes, but one patch pretty much cleaned up the vast majority of raiding issues - both class and encounter based. The problem was the patch took too long.

While I'll probably get the next expansion, I am going to be much more raid casual than this last one. I'm just going to assume that it will be 3-4 months before the raids are going to be accessible to all but the most hardcore raiding guilds.

Hey, maybe by then games like Hellgate, and SC2 will be out, and there will actually be some other good games to play.

[Bolty]

Buzz around the Net is that the next expansion will be in Northrend. World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich-King is the title. Whether or not this will be revealed/playable at Blizzcon is anyone's guess.

This is mostly fueled by news that the German gaming board gave a rating out to something called "Wrath of the Lich-King demo" by Blizzard.

Arthas had to go down eventually, it was just a matter of which expansion it would happen in...

-Bolty

[Artega]

I'll let the meeting stone camping go to the normal people that participate in the stone camping at Karazhan.

My group will be down at the portal, waiting for those rogues and druids to start filtering through. Just because they're stealthed doesn't mean we won't find them:)

[Lissa]

Buzz around the Net is that the next expansion will be in Northrend. World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich-King is the title. Whether or not this will be revealed/playable at Blizzcon is anyone's guess.

This is mostly fueled by news that the German gaming board gave a rating out to something called "Wrath of the Lich-King demo" by Blizzard.

Arthas had to go down eventually, it was just a matter of which expansion it would happen in...

-Bolty

There's also a website at Blizzard that is throwing up a 403 error (forbidden) for www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath. This could be a potential ploy by Blizzard as well as we saw something similar with the /worgen site at their site. So, until Blizzard comes clean, don't expect anything to be correct. (Realize that they have had things in the MPQ for a long time now concerning the Emerald Dream, but it's still no where to be found in Blizzard's plans.)

[q4m]

I can just see it now...LF2M *new dungeon* need hero tank/healer. I don't see any way of making hero classes work w/out breaking stuff

[oldmandennis]

http://www.wowszene.de/news.php?extend.1182

Who knows how good the info is. The only really interesting bits are that you will fight Arthas, and Death Knight will be the only hero class. You will need to unlock it somehow with your regular characters, then he will start at a high level.

This is pure and total speculation, but some people have come up with the idea that the DK will be WoW's version of lotro's moster play - it would be red to both allies and horde. To me this makes a ton of sense. Essentially banning them from regular raids means they don't mess up the current class balance in raids and pvp. It makes it totally optional in terms of regular development of your characters, while putting in a whole other facet of gameplay and a huge time sink for those so inclined. It also opens up some interesting options for BG's - how about 5 DK's trying to defend an artifact against 10 regular players. Also after 3.5 years, it would be very interesting if allies and horde from the same server could play together on their DK's.

[Monkey]

http://www.wowszene.de/news.php?extend.1182

Who knows how good the info is. The only really interesting bits are that you will fight Arthas, and Death Knight will be the only hero class. You will need to unlock it somehow with your regular characters, then he will start at a high level.

I find the information in general quite suspect. Many of the answers feel cribbed from an early TBC FAQ. And one answer doesn't even address the question--in a corporate-generated FAQ, that's pretty rare, I think.

Regarding the persistent rumor about the level cap going up to 80--WTF! Anyone who ran more than one character to the cap pre-TBC and has now gone back to run a BE or Spaced00d up knows that the content from 20ish-58 is pretty dang chewed. And, with all the action moved to Outland, leveling is also pretty lonely.

Blizzard needs to make leveling faster and more interesting for repeat offenders such as myself. Have the server give you 15% more quest experience for every level-capped character you have, or something. Or release an expansion with new zones and dungeons from 20-60 (and new raids, too, of course) instead of increasing the level cap.

Oh and finish the dang Missing Diplomat, already, OK?

Edit: They could call it the WRATH OF CLEAN SWEEP and finish things like Aszhara, Uldum, Grim Batol, etc., etc.

[Warlock]

I look forward to the Lich King demonstrating his wrath by waiting patiently at the end of a raid dungeon until players have beaten his minions.

[Zarathustra]

I look forward to the Lich King demonstrating his wrath by waiting patiently at the end of a raid dungeon until players have beaten his minions.

Sad, isn't it? He'll also tell his minions to sit back and wait for the heroes to come to them rather than going on the offensive.

If they do put Northrend in next, the Lich King better not be the final "boss" of the expansion. He should, at least for the time being, be an unattainable challenge that only the foolhardy would attempt. I'd love to see footage of players marching bravely towards the Frozen Throne and simply dropping dead all at once. Or maybe every human member of the raid succumbing to the plague and being permanently Mind Controlled until death, sparking threads on Blizzard's forums of "imbalance" and a "slap in the face" to the Alliance.

I can dream, right?

[Monkey]

Sad, isn't it? He'll also tell his minions to sit back and wait for the heroes to come to them rather than going on the offensive.

If they do put Northrend in next, the Lich King better not be the final "boss" of the expansion. He should, at least for the time being, be an unattainable challenge that only the foolhardy would attempt. I'd love to see footage of players marching bravely towards the Frozen Throne and simply dropping dead all at once. Or maybe every human member of the raid succumbing to the plague and being permanently Mind Controlled until death, sparking threads on Blizzard's forums of "imbalance" and a "slap in the face" to the Alliance.

I can dream, right?

They should do a pan-race version of that. Everyone should be able to go take a crack at Arthas from Day 1. As soon as you engage him, half the raid (regardless of race) gets 'plagued' (Undispellable, continues until death) and attacks the remaining half of the raid (preferably targeting healers first). If anyone dies, he heals to 100% and plagues more people. At 90%, Arthas says, "This bores me," and plagues anyone left unplagued. Then he teleports your raid of zombies to the outskirts of a nearby city where you attack and the guards slaughter you.

How does he ever get beaten? Blizzard buries a "talisman of no-plague" at the end of the ultimate raid instance, dropping some limited number (say 3) per week. The challenge becomes: How many people do you need to kill Arthas? Maybe it's possible with 15 really skilled players but you can take up to 40 into the instance. If you want to zerg him down with 40 people, have at it. But if you want a server first, you'll probably need to do it with 15 or 20.

[Jester]

They should do a pan-race version of that. Everyone should be able to go take a crack at Arthas from Day 1. As soon as you engage him, half the raid (regardless of race) gets 'plagued' (Undispellable, continues until death) and attacks the remaining half of the raid (preferably targeting healers first). If anyone dies, he heals to 100% and plagues more people. At 90%, Arthas says, "This bores me," and plagues anyone left unplagued. Then he teleports your raid of zombies to the outskirts of a nearby city where you attack and the guards slaughter you.

How does he ever get beaten? Blizzard buries a "talisman of no-plague" at the end of the ultimate raid instance, dropping some limited number (say 3) per week. The challenge becomes: How many people do you need to kill Arthas? Maybe it's possible with 15 really skilled players but you can take up to 40 into the instance. If you want to zerg him down with 40 people, have at it. But if you want a server first, you'll probably need to do it with 15 or 20.

So, the super-epic-story-defining-much-anticipated-last-boss is killable with a zerg?

That would be kinda ... bad. :unsure:

-Jester

[ima_nerd]

So, the super-epic-story-defining-much-anticipated-last-boss is killable with a zerg?

That would be kinda ... bad.

-Jester

That would be sad indeed. I'd rather him be the main bad guy of Warcraft IV.

/pines for Warcraft IV

[Pesmerga]

*The dark, necromatic Death Knight - the first new character class added to World of Warcraft since its launch.
*Northrend, the harsh, icy continent where the Lich King holds rule, complete with new zones, quests, items and monsters.
*New level cap of 80 providing access to mighty new powers and talents
*New battlegrounds featuring siege engine warfare and destructable buildings
*Expanding character customisation options including new hairstyles & dances, the ability to change the hairstyles of existing characters, and new skin color variants.

From http://www.mmo-champion.com/