Well... I did it, i quit wow cold turkey

[Tal]

Kan you can't ask him:

Carry on then. I assume you played the Beta enough to have experience, not just impressions. What else do you hate?

And then follow up with:

So be it. You quit. Feel better?

It feels like you're deliberately picking a fight with him and I won't have that in the WoW forums.

OTOH, Shoju has hated MoP before he ever really saw any of it, and hasn't changed his thoughts on it since, from what I saw on another forum I share with Shoju. I don't think there's any intervention needed here. Shoju's telling his opinion, which he's entitled to, whether he saw it or not, and Kandrathe is commenting on his opinion of same, having actually seen and/or experienced more of it. I don't see any fight-picking here; just different viewpoints, both of which can be valid.

The difference from the D3 forum stuff is that Shoju is pointing out that *he* doesn't like MoP, however much he has seen or not seen of it. He's not calling anyone who likes MoP 'sheep' or accusing anyone of kissing Blizzard's ass like in the D3 forums.

Versus that, Kandrathe shares his thoughts on the same, and notes that Shoju seems to be happy to have quit, and that it's fine. Where's the problem with either?

Personally, I disagree with much of Shoju's viewpoint, and agree with some, but not all of Kandrathe's. The differences are not particularly important. Those who wish to play, will, and those who don't, won't. If only the D3 forum could be so clear about it, rather than degenerate into what it ended up as.

I'm commenting on the tone of his posts. Asking someone to clarify their position is one thing but the "Do you feel better?" comment struck me as terse and snide.

[LochnarITB]

The difference from the D3 forum stuff is that Shoju is pointing out that *he* doesn't like MoP, however much he has seen or not seen of it. He's not calling anyone who likes MoP 'sheep' or accusing anyone of kissing Blizzard's ass like in the D3 forums.

Versus that, Kandrathe shares his thoughts on the same, and notes that Shoju seems to be happy to have quit, and that it's fine. Where's the problem with either?

Maybe I'm biased. I have zero desire left to try MoP, even just beta without actually buying the xpac. Shoju's reasoning is thought out far more than mine. I thought no further than the feeling I hit a wall and could not get myself to log in, even for the sidestep of pandas. In my possible bias, I see Shoju as laying out his thoughts but Kandrathe coming back and telling him why he is wrong. As mentioned, the D3 forums demonstrated how that can go very wrong. It is not right to tell anyone their feelings are wrong without having lived in their skin.



P.S. Psst, Kan, Lochnarmy™'s accountant is poking me telling me to remind you that the interest on the rest of the gold for a mount loan is really piling up. It's been a long time since you seemed to drop out of the game entirely the first time. If you'd like to set up a new payment plan, I can have him contact you. (j/k - never cared about getting back any gold I "loaned" to friends but was surprised you seemed to disappear in-game shortly after getting a shiny new mount to zip around on)

[RTM]

I've quit and returned to the game a few times now, and my reasons for quitting have ranged from real-life related events to being burned out so bad that I outright hated the game and the thought of even playing it. After a few months I get a hankering to visit familiar locations and see familiar faces, and I resubscribe. The game is old and we've all played it a lot, so it's no wonder that there is an ebb and flow to our desires to play. If I may be so bold, I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that Shoju will be back eventually.

I have also come to realize that I personally have changed over the course of the game. My life is in a different spot now- I just can't be the hardcore player I once was, and to that end, a lot of the new stuff in MoP is right up my alley. A lot of the time now, I just want to sit down and the computer and play something fun for an hour. I quit Cataclysm mainly because of the lack of stuff to do outside of raiding & dungeons, so the large amount of top-end "casual" stuff is great:

-I was never into Pokemon but I do enjoy collecting pets, so I'm down for checking out the pet battles.
-The fact that pets and mounts are account-wide is going to do more for my altitis than the entirety of the 1-60 content overhaul from Cataclysm.
-Harvest Moon? Loved it, looking forward to trying out the new farming game.
-Dailies are kinda meh (got burned out on the Firelands ones pretty quick) but with the new random ones they should stay fresh longer.
-Rep rewards other than gear that is obsolete after the first major content patch will also help with my motivation to grind rep.
-I like that dungeons are reverting to the end-of-WotLK-style easier modes. I enjoy a good 2-hour dungeon slog every now and again but sometimes I want my gear handed to me on a silver platter.
-The Black Market AH is pretty much the greatest thing ever.
-Shadowstep across all rogue specs!!!!!! Scratch the above statement, THIS is the greatest thing ever.

WoW has a lot of content and even more history. It's gotta be tough to keep existing customers happy while at the same trying to attract new ones, and there are bound to be casualties.

[Mavfin]

I have also come to realize that I personally have changed over the course of the game. My life is in a different spot now- I just can't be the hardcore player I once was, and to that end, a lot of the new stuff in MoP is right up my alley. A lot of the time now, I just want to sit down and the computer and play something fun for an hour. I quit Cataclysm mainly because of the lack of stuff to do outside of raiding & dungeons, so the large amount of top-end "casual" stuff is great:

-The fact that pets and mounts are account-wide is going to do more for my altitis than the entirety of the 1-60 content overhaul from Cataclysm.

-I like that dungeons are reverting to the end-of-WotLK-style easier modes. I enjoy a good 2-hour dungeon slog every now and again but sometimes I want my gear handed to me on a silver platter.

WoW has a lot of content and even more history. It's gotta be tough to keep existing customers happy while at the same trying to attract new ones, and there are bound to be casualties.

I would have to agree with the parts I kept above. I'm simply not where I was in Vanilla, or even in Wrath, both being expansions where I raided a lot.

Account-wide pets and mounts? Sign me up. I'm actually getting my feet wet in WoW again after a roughly six-month absence by doing Molten Front for the mount, something I never bothered with the first time around.

The 'easier' heroics I'm all for. Those are to make pugs bearable, while I'm looking forward to the gear-normalized challenge modes with friends and guildies who I can count on to actually try to perform their roles well; i.e. I *can* have my cake and eat it, too.

WoW will probably never again be my 'only' game as it once was, but, I think it still has life left in it for me.

[Lissa]

I stopped at the end of June '11 for a variety of reasons:

1) The game felt like a chore even with all the people I played with and enjoyed playing with. I just couldn't motivate myself to log in anymore after taking 6 characters to 85 at that point (only Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, and Druid were not capped, of those, only the Druid was sub 80 prior to Cata).

2) The amount of Retconning was completely and utterly out of control with so many things done that it ruined vast parts of the Warcraft lore (why on earth were the Dragonmaw allowed back into the horde, or better yet, why didn't the Red Flight make a huge fuss over it especially given what the Dragonmaw did to Alexstrasza and the Red Flight at Deathwing's behest).

3) Blizzard couldn't figure out how to properly balance things (and they still can't judging by other games).

4) Ruining various aspects of PvE because of PvP and failing horribly at #3 above in PvP

5) Not delivering on what they said they were going to do. They said they wanted to do smaller more frequent content patches and it really ended up being smaller content patches that were just as infrequent as before. The one thing I truly miss about Vanilla over all the other expansions was their pace of putting out content patches. They had 13 patches over the 2 years from launch of Vanilla till tBC launched and then it was 4 to 5 content patches max between the start and end of each expansion after that.

I don't forsee ever returning to WoW because I think Blizzard seriously has dropped the ball and the game quality has taken a definite hit IMO since mid-Wrath onward, there were some jewels in there, but for the most part, it's been downhill since shortly after ToC launched (ICC was good and some other things were good, but overall, it's been mediocre at best).

[shoju]

So... No. You actually haven't experienced MOP.

No, I was unhappy enough with the announcements, and burnt out enough on the game, that I didn't need to give it a try. I didn't want to try it. I was done.

Not cartoony?


Cartoony?

I don't play Gnomes. I don't like them.



Not Cartoony



Not Cartoony



Not Cartoony

I can keep posting what I played, or you can cruise down to my sig, and look through. I did a lot of work on toons that I played to make them not cartoony. You are missing the point. Seeing Pandas, in the new expac, as the feature, and seeing how they look, just DIDN'T INTEREST ME

There are 3 changes to tanking in MOP;

1) Tanks will do much more damage. Maybe about 70% of a DPS class, but much more than before. You have an active role now in taking things down.

2) A new active defense model where you need to watch your resources and cool downs and be more active in mitigating damage. Again, you are no longer a threat generating stone that watches aggro, and otherwise acts as a mobile punching bag for the selected mob.

3) Big changes to the way block works. It will be a separate roll after determining if an attack misses or is dodged or parried. Block also is subject to diminishing returns which is wasn’t before, meaning that it will not likely be able to be capped. Previously block was part of the same roll which leaned to the magic 102.4% rule, meaning if miss, parry, dodge, and block all added up to 102.4% you would never suffer a normal full strength hit. Now that it is separate it is impossible to get to that situation. This means tanks will suffer more damage, which ties into the active mitigation from #2. Again, they are making tanks require more skills.

Far from being dumbed down -- it is quite the opposite. Tanking will be hard work.

I know it's hard at times to keep up, but I play a DK tank. I have kept up with the DK changes. The game of tanking I played in 4.3? Yep. That's MoP tanking for the DK. I'm not interested. List of changes for DK tanks:

1.) OUtbreak: Now costs RP.
2.) Less Cooldowns. With several of them being moved to talents, you don't have quite as many.
3.) Blood Boil wont suck as much in AoE situations.
4.) 1.0 sec GCD's. This, means there is even more downtime in the rotation that already had the most downtime of the tank rotations. Yes. I can say that it already did, as I mean NOW in Cata. I had all four tanks at cap.

Tanking didn't change for DK's. If you go back and read the Bloody Mitigation thread, where they started announcing these changes, you will realize that the changes in MoP are moving the other tanks into the model that Death Knights already had.

And... Again, you've never experienced them. I played away most of a Saturday on MOP beta a couple weeks ago only running around trapping pets and trying them out. It fits in nicely with adding yet another thing to do while you are running around looking for herbs, minerals, etc. Am I a huge fan OMG -- gotta get em all? No, but you know what? My 12 year old son and I had a great time with it. So, sure. You may not like it. I don't like having everyone in the AH start doing the /train thing simultaneously, so I avoid the crowded ones. No one will be forced to do this. It's merely an amusement and actually makes companions more interesting than just a vanity thing.

I don't think you underrstand. I worked in a gaming shop when POkemon came out. I know more about Pokemon than the average 30 something year old guy. I had to learn how to play it, so that I could teach the other people how to play it. I know all about it. I am not interested in it. I don't need to try it out to understand that it isn't a feature that I'm the even littlest bit interested in.

I don't like that they are putting it in the game. I don't like that they are doing it. I don't like that they are taking development time and putting it into it. It isn't designed for me.

They will never do the TBC rep / dungeon lock thing again... But, I loved the Sons of Hodir -- I'm not sure how you thought it was a grind. I finished the quests, and did about a week of dailies to get exalted. Maybe they dumbed it down since you did it. And... It is likely now that many things will be account wide -- maybe even some reputation based stuff...

They did dumb it down since I did it. They have said that they want rep to take more time to get. That they want exalted to mean something again, meaning that the idea that they had in WotLK and Cata, which were extensions of the same model, in their eyes, devalued the idea of rep. I'm not interested in long rep grinds again, that I have to do dailies to do. I'm not interested in questing. I get to cap, and begin working through dungeons. That's what I am. I'm a dungeon runner. Raids, dungeons, that was my choice for end game. In cataclysm, I finally finished soloing every boss that I could. Before 6/28 I got every boss that is soloable except for Arthas, and YOgg.

I don't know. For a more casual player such as myself, it may be the only way I ever see 90% of the content of the game I bought. I love my guild. I'd rather do guild stuff -- even if LFR would be better for my progression.

And it works for you. That's great. I didn't enjoy it. I don't like it. I didn't like that I felt I needed to run it to make sure I was doing my best for my guild.

I don't know. I've never LFR'd yet. My only experience was Avarice 40 man raiding in Classic, pre-TBC. It was hard to get everyone together and on the same page.

Then it will work for you, when you get good groups. When you get bad groups, and you get people that pull bosses early, while people are buffing, or get people who pull while half the group is still dead or running back, or get people who just go out of their way to make it as miserable as possible for the rest of the group, you will want to scream. It's the nature of the beast.

I wish the game werebuilt differently (scaled difficulty/loot to the levels of the party / raid). I don't hate it. What I dislike is that my guildies are levels above me, and I can't play with them until I gear up. The game IMHO should accommodate some amount of group disparity.

That has never been the game that WoW is. Raiding is a group activity for people at cap. They are working to institute technology that will allow them to scale back players, so they can run with people. This is the tech that is fueling the challenge modes. If they get it working, the next step will be to allow people to scale back further. They talked about it what seems like forever ago, I could try and find the blue post if need be, but it was a feature that was on the beta for a while.

Whatever. :-) My son has to tell me about the lore. I don't get it or keep up with it.

And I do.

There is plenty of game for the non-PVPer. I think what is missing to me is the random world PVP from the beginning -- Tauren Mill vs South Shore -- Alliance getting together and surrounding the Crossroads. It was possible for 30-40 level 14 toons in Darkshore to repell a small gang of level 30ish bullies who came north to hassle the elves. It was not something I wanted ALL the time, (hence why I chose a PVE server), but it was fun to gang up occasionally and go raise hell.

And as much as you don't care about the Lore, I have absolutely no desire, and derive absolutely no enjoyment out of this. I was that asshole who would go get my capped character and just end the BS at crossroads, because I didn't like them killing my alt's quest givers.

So be it. You quit. Feel better?

I do. I feel a lot better now that I've quit. I've gotten more interested in other things, I've started working on developing a new game for something else, and started working on my personal site again, and drawing. I still like to talk about WoW. I don't feel the need to play it anymore, but I feel good when I'm discussing parts of it, even when talking about why I quit.

If I may be so bold, I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that Shoju will be back eventually.

Go out on a limb but not too far, and don't hold you breath.

I have also come to realize that I personally have changed over the course of the game. My life is in a different spot now- I just can't be the hardcore player I once was, and to that end, a lot of the new stuff in MoP is right up my alley. A lot of the time now, I just want to sit down and the computer and play something fun for an hour. I quit Cataclysm mainly because of the lack of stuff to do outside of raiding & dungeons, so the large amount of top-end "casual" stuff is great:

Me too. When I started playing WoW, I was a father of three, who had 2 living with him. Both kids were young, and went to bed early. My wife is a Social Worker, so I get more time than normal to play, because of her weird schedule.

Now? I'm a father of 3, with custody of my oldest, who is getting his permit in 2 weeks. My younger two are 9 and 7. I don't have the time to do the "non dungeon content" across all these characters. And that's the thing. I like to play Alts. I like to see the game from different views. I don't feel like MoP is very friendly to that.

-I was never into Pokemon but I do enjoy collecting pets, so I'm down for checking out the pet battles.

And for me, I sort of sided with Frag on this, I always really had one or two pets that I used per toon. I ended up with lots of pets once they didn't take up bag space, but I only ever rolled with 1 or 2 different ones out per toon. For someone like you, this probably is more interesting.

-The fact that pets and mounts are account-wide is going to do more for my altitis than the entirety of the 1-60 content overhaul from Cataclysm.

This is a HUGE improvement. I love this. Sadly, it came too late. Giving up my 100 pets and 100 mounts on Shoju when I main changed really killed a lot of enjoyment for me.

-Harvest Moon? Loved it, looking forward to trying out the new farming game.

To me, it looks and feels more like farmville. I'm not a farmer. I don't care about farming. Just another feature that didn't interest me.

-Dailies are kinda meh (got burned out on the Firelands ones pretty quick) but with the new random ones they should stay fresh longer.

I didn't even make it that far in dailies. The Crusader's Colliseum killed it for me.

-Rep rewards other than gear that is obsolete after the first major content patch will also help with my motivation to grind rep.

A good idea. I can approve of that.

-I like that dungeons are reverting to the end-of-WotLK-style easier modes. I enjoy a good 2-hour dungeon slog every now and again but sometimes I want my gear handed to me on a silver platter.

I actually love this change. Remember that Stonecore Heroic shortly after launch of Cata where it was you, me, crush, Jr, and the random pug warrior? Remember how terrible it was on the first boss that we wiped to for hours because Hunter AoE sucked? I wanted to quit.

-The Black Market AH is pretty much the greatest thing ever.

I'm not a fan. Some of the stuff that I've seen that they are going to be putting on there should NEVER be seen by people who didn't do the content at level. (invincible, mim's head, etc...)

-Shadowstep across all rogue specs!!!!!! Scratch the above statement, THIS is the greatest thing ever.

I would agree it is the greatest rogue thing ever. I love that ability.

WoW has a lot of content and even more history. It's gotta be tough to keep existing customers happy while at the same trying to attract new ones, and there are bound to be casualties.

And that's what I am. I'm a casualty of the change. People who have been around me in WoW know, I don't like change. And I don't like what they've done multiple times. I flipped about the paladin changes in WotLK (leaving spellpower) I flipped about Holy Power (I hate it still) Mav can attest to this. I can admit to it. I flipped about things in WotLK, and I flipped about Cata. I'm not flipping out about MoP. I'm looking at the announcements, and I'm looking at the unhappiness that I had during Cata (I was miserable, and I'm sure I irritated guildies at times), and I just decided that the game is just no longer for me. It's not what I want. It's not what I'm after. I'm no longer part of the target demographic. I'm ok with that. I wish that you (*Kandrathe) were ok with me having a different opinion than you about it.

[Mavfin]

Shoju, I'm sorry, but, imo, any picture of a blood elf, particularly male, is cartoony!

(Celya agreed with me, too! )

[shoju]

Shoju, I'm sorry, but, imo, any picture of a blood elf, particularly male, is cartoony!

I did the best I could with him... I admit, BE's are a little cartoony. If only they would have made them look more like satyrs... God... Satyrs would bring me back to the game.

[LochnarITB]

I don't play Gnomes. I don't like them.

Bolty: The site needs a bawling emote to fully express the hurt I wish to convey!

[Bolty]

Bolty: The site needs a bawling emote to fully express the hurt I wish to convey!

Note: not Mini-Bolty

In all seriousness, if you wanted to know what the one singular key difference is between MoP and Cataclysm, it's this:

In MoP, there's always something to do. Whenever you log in, there will be some way to progress your character. Every time. And if you want to just chill out with friends or solo, there are things to goof off with as well. This was never a problem for me, being a raging achievement junkie. However, even if you don't care one iota about achievements, you'll always have something to pass the time with.

I think Blizzard's more aware now of how their tiered raiding model actually kills interest in the game by removing all progression paths ("why bother with anything other than LFR when all the gear gets replaced next patch anyway?"), and is making up for that by supplying more out-of-raid content.

I think PokePetBattles are just the beginning. Blizzard will, over the next few years, continue to add more mini-games to WoW to make it something that you'd just want to log into and goof off with, such that 3 years from now, raiding is just some other activity in the game and not such a huge focus at capped level. We'll see.

[Tal]

I don't play Gnomes. I don't like them.

Bolty: The site needs a bawling emote to fully express the hurt I wish to convey!

[kandrathe]

It feels like you're deliberately picking a fight with him and I won't have that in the WoW forums.

Well, yes, I did have a bit of a chip on the shoulder. I'm trying to remain objective. I've put games aside, and later returned to them.

[kandrathe]

I wish that you (*Kandrathe) were ok with me having a different opinion than you about it.

Don't misunderstand. I am fine about it. This analysis is worthwhile, and everyone and everything worthwhile deserves an honest critique. You've provided an honest critique of this game, but I feel you don't need to justify your actions and decisions. I'm grateful that you have shared this.

My interest is/was in what is critique and what is justification. I come at it from a different direction ("how can it be improved") rather than focusing on the negative aspect.

I'm truly more interested in the psychology, (my 2nd degree and possible interest for a masters if I were to pursue it.) I've been a gamer for 40 years, and software developer for 30 years. My first *real* job was developing educational software that incorporated gaming as motivation for achieving learning objectives (.e.g. math blasters, Oregon trail, etc.). My interest in the topic is in line with http://realityisbroken.org/

I've owned and try to keep up with every major popular game. Most of them I've set aside, and return to depending on various factors, including "what are my friends playing?" Some of my main gaming buddies are off fighting the Taliban, so our opportunities to have "LAN parties" are more limited.

[kandrathe]

In my possible bias, I see Shoju as laying out his thoughts but Kandrathe coming back and telling him why he is wrong. As mentioned, the D3 forums demonstrated how that can go very wrong. It is not right to tell anyone their feelings are wrong without having lived in their skin.

More that I'm challenging the critique where I disagree. My life is very analytical so I tend to poke holes in things.

P.S. Psst, Kan, Lochnarmy™'s accountant is poking me telling me to remind you that the interest on the rest of the gold for a mount loan is really piling up. It's been a long time since you seemed to drop out of the game entirely the first time. If you'd like to set up a new payment plan, I can have him contact you. (j/k - never cared about getting back any gold I "loaned" to friends but was surprised you seemed to disappear in-game shortly after getting a shiny new mount to zip around on)

I've been waiting for you to return so I can pay up. My gnome is quite the entrepreneur (obviously), but is no where near gold cap. Know that when you have recuperated, and do return, your friend Trixsie has a present for you.



I didn't plan on disappearing. My gaming PC died, just when I was going through a work transition and I couldn't afford to fix/replace it at the time. Real life can be such a time suck. Before I knew it a year or so had passed. This spring with my tax return, I was able to buy a spiffy new machine. Which led me to reinstall WOW, and voila!

In my absence TBC ended, death knights & WOTLK happened. When I got back most people were wrapping up Cata, while I was playing catch up (and still am mostly). My perspective is that the WOW world is a bigger and more accessible place (than what I left) and where everyone is fairly oblivious to the wonders around them.

From my perspective; I just don't get griping about something like LFR (dweebs and all), because my only opportunity to raid in the past has been to on a weekly or sometimes monthly basis; 1) sign up a week or so in advance, 2) hope the raid organizers pick me, and 3) grind enough during the week to have supplies and gold for repairs, 4) prepare mentally for a 6 hour or so raid all day Saturday depending on how many wipes we experienced, 5) hope during the raid I don't do something stupid that gets me blacklisted with my raid buddies 6) prepare mentally for the fact that if any good loot does drop, that others may get it before me. Then, by the time you do get 4 pieces of the current tier set, everyone else has moved on to the next best thing.

[shoju]

I'm a web designer, and an advertising nut. I understand what they are doing and why they are doing it. With a product like WoW, if you want it to be successful, you have to keep it relevant to the market, and to a demographic that will continue to buy it.

I knew that I was falling out of their target demographic when they started selling mounts for cash, and then pets for cash. I paid my fair share of cash in server xfers, and character remods. I can't say that I regret the decisions, but if I were to do it all again, at my current age, I wouldn't have done it. I would have moved my raiding character to lurkers, and let the rest rot while I started over. I would have restarted my DK on Terenas instead of moving it from Alexstrasza, to Kil'Jaeden, to Stormrage, to Terenas, and then faction changing.

And just like they are making more and more "fun stuff" that you can buy with real money, because they are going after a younger demographic that is more interested in those things, they are making content that they like to consume. Heroic Dungeons from TBC (at TBC difficulty) don't work in a model where you randomly group with people from all over, and there is less emphasis placed on communication. We saw that at the beginning of Cataclysm. The two models were not working together.

Likewise, we saw it with LFR. LFR difficulty is less than either 10m and 25m, because they realized that they couldn't expect 25 random people to achieve things that the others could.

I could focus on the positives for you for a moment. In MoP:

Scenarios - These look REALLY interesting. I hope that they give way to helping players improve as a player in a less stressful environment. They look great.
Challenge Modes - This gives the guild groups and others, that "Hard" Challenge that they enjoyed, without making the masses suffer through it, because of the randomness.
Shared Mounts - IF they would give up the Bullshit restriction on PvP mounts continuing to be character only, it would be just about perfect. Mind you, I've never achieved a Gladiator mount.
Account Wide Achieves Like I said before, this is a great feature. I just wish it would have made it in sooner (like.... from the start)
Account Wide Pets I don't care about the pet battles at all. They actually are a big detractor for me. But the Account Wide Pets is another great thing.
Shorter Dungeons Yes. Please. All Day. I have been an advocate of short dungeons for a while. I'm personally of the opinion that a short dungeon, can still be "hard". It doesn't need Mountains of Trash in between bosses. It doesn't have to be a puzzle of CC.
MOgging single greatest feature they released in cata. Hands down.
making pvp gear not good in pve, and vice versa + resilience as a stat Like I said. I don't care about PvP. I did, a long time ago in TBC, when I had a rogue, and was trying REALLY hard to be competitive in 2's in S2, and S3. I wholeheartedly approve of this change.

There are other things I like, I just can't think right now. BY all means, think of a feature, and ask me if you want, I will gladly give you my opinion. I will warn you though, It's probably not wise to ask me about Paladins. My fury at Blizzard for destroying my love of the class holds no bounds.

[Mavfin]

I will warn you though, It's probably not wise to ask me about Paladins. My fury at Blizzard for destroying my love of the class holds no bounds.

Probably best not to ask. If anyone really wants to know, they can go search MTadin for it.

[shoju]

I will warn you though, It's probably not wise to ask me about Paladins. My fury at Blizzard for destroying my love of the class holds no bounds.

Probably best not to ask. If anyone really wants to know, they can go search MTadin for it.

Yeah, just don't even do that. Trust me. I have ground an axe on Cata + Paladins.