Basic Math - The Failure of Diablo Melee

[ErickTheRed]

I think that part of the problem is that Sirian isn't using Revenge, and that many of the skills with comparable healing effects only get them with runes that unlock very late. Even then Revenge is still better in my opinion.

Playing with Revenge is kind of like playing while chain drinking healing potions, especially with the glyph that increases the proc rate to 60%. In most situations you are being attacked by multiple foes and it procs every few seconds. It's also way less tactically interesting than say Furious Charge for example. On rare occasions I've been hurt badly as I get knocked back and have to wonder how best to use the proc. Should I use up an escape ability to leap into a crowd so I can trigger it and get fully healed? However, almost all the time it's something to automatically hit when the button lights up. So I can understand if someone were to reject the skill as less fun than some others.

When I like my barbarian it's because I'm taking so much damage that Revenge isn't enough and I still have to move around at times.

[BellaStrega]

One of the biggest and most frustrating problems I run into in Inferno (act I) is not so much the boss abilities as it is when particular monsters are promoted to boss/champion, like the berserker, who have extremely high damage attacks. While the berserker has a tell before it hits with its big attack, I've found that a) it often hits anyway because of the way melee is intentionally coded, plus when fighting a boss or champion pack, there are often so many monsters on the screen that it's very easy to miss the tell in the first place. Getting hit for 90% of my life in one shot is by itself recoverable, except that they have faster swings that can easily finish off your health, and jailor, frozen, waller, vortex, etc. to control your movement to some extent.

[Elric of Grans]

One of the biggest and most frustrating problems I run into in Inferno (act I) is not so much the boss abilities as it is when particular monsters are promoted to boss/champion

That is exactly what I have been saying to people. I have faces packs that had the same combination of abilities, but were different base-type creatures. In one case it was a piece of cake; in another, it was a nightmare. Certain abilities are stupidly powerful on certain creatures (especially anything that already teleports, or has some kind of a special, telegraphed attack).

Inversely, certain abilities make certain enemies a lot easier. Ranged enemies with Waller? They block their own attacks while you just use attacks that hit around them I love it when casters that normally run-away from you have Vortex!

In my experience, I have never once faced a Unique enemy that was felt over/under-powered. Because their abilities are predefined, they are always perfectly balanced. The randomness of Champions/Rares makes them considerably less balanced, in both directions.

[BellaStrega]

Specific to my jailor comment, I was playing my wizard in Hell just now against a pack of skeletons with Avenger, Fire Chains, and Jailor. I had both Mirror Image and Teleport with Fracture. When they immobilized me with jailor, I cast mirror image and immediately all five of my images and my character were jailed again. I used teleport with fracture and either remained jailed or was jailed again. Does this ability even have a cooldown?

[Quark]

Specific to my jailor comment, I was playing my wizard in Hell just now against a pack of skeletons with Avenger, Fire Chains, and Jailor. I had both Mirror Image and Teleport with Fracture. When they immobilized me with jailor, I cast mirror image and immediately all five of my images and my character were jailed again. I used teleport with fracture and either remained jailed or was jailed again. Does this ability even have a cooldown?

Every monster has its own cooldown. This is why things like Frozen and Jailer are so much worse on champion packs - they've got 3 individual cooldowns.

Champion w/ Jailor is pretty much the reason I have Mirror Image, Teleport/Fracture, *and* Illusionist.

[RiotInferno]

As far as health globes go, the main thing I've noticed is that +Life per globe pickup and +gold/globe pickup radius is really good.

I was buying cheap (10-20k per piece, req level 60)+resist all gear on the AH, and almost all of them came with one or the other.

My char has a 27yd pickup radius and heals 15k per globe. That is huge.
It's not something I'd prioritize, but it's fun if you can get it.

[BellaStrega]

In inferno, I run with 0 additional gold/globe pickup radius. I found that wearing such gear tends to siphon up all the health globes that I would prefer to leave scattered about behind me so that when I have to kite the next boss/champion pack, I'll have refreshments along the way.

Come down to it, though, if resist all gear with that particular affix is cheaper, I'll buy it.

[Roland]

I have +health globe radius on one piece of gear, and while at first it was nice not to have to run directly over them to pick them up (moreso gold than globes), once in Inferno it becomes too much of a liability. You end up picking up more globes than you need, and thus run out of them when you do need them.

As for +res all gear, I'm hardly finding any for sub-1 million gold, and the few pieces that are never go below 300k? Probably not even that low. Of course, I'm also looking to maintain or improve the other stats I have, so my pool is somewhat limited, but good gear starts to ramp up in cost very quickly once you reach the end game.

[BellaStrega]

Yeah, that's my impression as well. Hence my comment about buying gear if it really is that cheap.

As it stands, at the rate I play and the quality of drops I tend to get, it'll be some time before I can start buying +resist all gear.

Oh, I love the +radius on gear for farming gold in nightmare. Speeds things up considerably.

[RTM]

I have +health globe radius on one piece of gear, and while at first it was nice not to have to run directly over them to pick them up (moreso gold than globes), once in Inferno it becomes too much of a liability. You end up picking up more globes than you need, and thus run out of them when you do need them.

As for +res all gear, I'm hardly finding any for sub-1 million gold, and the few pieces that are never go below 300k? Probably not even that low. Of course, I'm also looking to maintain or improve the other stats I have, so my pool is somewhat limited, but good gear starts to ramp up in cost very quickly once you reach the end game.

There is plenty of +res gear for less than 1 million, and even a bunch that is less than 100k. You just have to be ready to click 'buy' within the millisecond it gets posted.

[Archon_Wing]

For those that are in inferno, how much lifeonhit/life leech or auto recover things are you sporting?

[MongoJerry]

Specific to my jailor comment, I was playing my wizard in Hell just now against a pack of skeletons with Avenger, Fire Chains, and Jailor. I had both Mirror Image and Teleport with Fracture. When they immobilized me with jailor, I cast mirror image and immediately all five of my images and my character were jailed again. I used teleport with fracture and either remained jailed or was jailed again. Does this ability even have a cooldown?

I think you remain jailed after a teleport -- you're just jailed in a different place. It's one of the reasons why I like Wormhole rather than Fracture. I can hold down the teleport key and teleport four times in rapid succession to get away from dangerous spots quickly.

[Roland]

For those that are in inferno, how much lifeonhit/life leech or auto recover things are you sporting?

I have 2.90% life leech. Honestly couldn't tell you if it's worth a damn. One thing I WILL say is that it doesn't heal you for that amount right away. It works like life regen, potions, and health globes - it spreads the heal out over time. Not a very long time, mind you, but it's not instantaneous. I have no idea what the regen formula is. All I know is that the green numbers that tick over my head seem to increase slightly for a short duration when I'm doing damage. 'Course, that could be from Brooding, too... More testing is required, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[BellaStrega]

Specific to my jailor comment, I was playing my wizard in Hell just now against a pack of skeletons with Avenger, Fire Chains, and Jailor. I had both Mirror Image and Teleport with Fracture. When they immobilized me with jailor, I cast mirror image and immediately all five of my images and my character were jailed again. I used teleport with fracture and either remained jailed or was jailed again. Does this ability even have a cooldown?

I think you remain jailed after a teleport -- you're just jailed in a different place. It's one of the reasons why I like Wormhole rather than Fracture. I can hold down the teleport key and teleport four times in rapid succession to get away from dangerous spots quickly.

Huh, really? I remember teleporting once and my fractures were jailed but I wasn't. Very strange.

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For those that are in inferno, how much lifeonhit/life leech or auto recover things are you sporting?

848 life on hit, but I'm pretty much stuck in act I until I can get upgrades for everything else (like resist all and overall dps).

I think life leech gets nerfed in higher difficulties.

[Elric of Grans]

I have to say, I am finding Hell difficulty really demoralising. Awfully grindy and nothing notable drops. Sometimes nothing drops. All stick and no carrot. Half the time I am not even earning enough cash to repair my gear, necessitating my lower level characters to fund my Demon Hunter's progress. Sometimes, the game shows flashes of excellence, but generally I am just not finding it fun anymore. I sure hope Blizzard releases 1.0.3 soon!

[Archon_Wing]

At level 60 it'll change with the Valor mechanic that allows you to gain up to 75 MF by killing elite mobs. Drops will greatly improve, but it can still be really annoying.

[BellaStrega]

I have to say, I am finding Hell difficulty really demoralising. Awfully grindy and nothing notable drops. Sometimes nothing drops. All stick and no carrot. Half the time I am not even earning enough cash to repair my gear, necessitating my lower level characters to fund my Demon Hunter's progress. Sometimes, the game shows flashes of excellence, but generally I am just not finding it fun anymore. I sure hope Blizzard releases 1.0.3 soon!

If you're past act I it might be worthwhile to go back an act and redo it from the start. It'll give you XP and gold that will help get you through the rest of the game.

Also, you can often find really good upgrades for your weapons on the AH for fairly low prices. Having a weapon appropriate for your level can make a big difference to getting through an act, even if you don't bother with anything else.

[NotSoDarklord]

For those that are in inferno, how much lifeonhit/life leech or auto recover things are you sporting?

900 life on hit with 1.98 base attacks/second as a barb. Single target tanking seemed absurdly difficult before I acquired a decent amount.

[Archon_Wing]

I finally broke down when I got to act 2 inferno and bought a 700 dps/dex/vit sword for my monk for 90k. I just can't see how one can get through without spending a ton on the auction house. But the same applies to my friends in other classes.

[Roland]

I finally broke down when I got to act 2 inferno and bought a 700 dps/dex/vit sword for my monk for 90k. I just can't see how one can get through without spending a ton on the auction house. But the same applies to my friends in other classes.

90k is "a ton"? I can make almost double that in an hour on a good run, not counting whatever I make in sales off the AH (which is virtually nothing, but occasionally I can get another 10 - 25k). I agree, you will need to spend a significant amount of gold in order to advance. Or, as has been stated, farm repeatedly until luck favors you. Or a combination - farm for gold and items, sell the stuff you don't need on the AH, and eventually take all that "free" money and sink it into items you do need off the AH.

While farming for gold I've found 2 very nice upgrades for my character - one a socketed ring with 1% higher IAS and +75 Vit, and a Perfect Square Emerald actually makes it boost my damage (and dodge, however slightly). The other are a nice set of gloves with over 100 Dex, some Vit, and most importantly +Res all. I lose my 14% IAS on my old gloves, but gain life and damage reduction, and with the above ring + Emerald I actually came out ahead in DPS anyway. It IS possible to find good items farming Act I Inferno - it just takes a long time. Of course, you could always take all those crappy items you find and melt them down (vendor the sub-59 ilvl ones for gold), then use the crafting materials to craft something potentially better. It's a gamble, yes, but from what Chesspiece is saying the stats on the top-level crafts seem to be weighted toward Inferno difficulty. So, even if you don't get something that's usable by you, you should be able to sell it on the AH, and turn enough of a profit to be able to buy something useful.

I truly don't understand the abhorrence of the AH. This isn't D2 people. The game was designed around this very concept. It's an integral part of the game. Is it the only way to acquire gear? Absolutely not. It certainly can be the most efficient way, however. Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? No, you don't get that big rush of hitting the jackpot like you do when finding or crafting a good item. So what? Diablo and Diablo II both had plenty of crap items (especially once LoD came out). People spent loads of time farming for gold to gamble, and doing Mephisto and Pindle runs for gear. It's no different here, only here you can do other things in order to acquire solid gear: you can craft it with all the gold and materials you collect along the way, and you can buy it off the AH - a secure way of trading with other players, virtually hassle free, with no risk of scams or dupes or anything else that plagued D2. If people want to stick to the old ways of playing "pure," or Live-off-the-Land style that's their prerogative. Just don't expect the game to be bent around you.

If "great" items dropped any more frequently the economy would implode in a short period of time. As it is 90% of the gear out there (save for ones with specific affixes, i.e. top-end gear needed to advance through Inferno) is "junk" anyway that can be acquired for a song - if it wasn't vendored or salvaged. It's not like gold is that hard to acquire, either. An hour or two a day could easily net you 200k, plus materials to craft with if you're already in Inferno. You're odds of crafting gear that you need are almost guaranteed to be better, simply because you get to choose the base item and number of mods on it (2-3 if it's Magical, 4-6 if it's Rare).