PvP Tournament...

[FireIceTalon]

Update: January 31st 2009

Signing up is now closed, 20 participants is the final count. Tournament will begin February 21st 2009.



http://freshmeat-blog.de.tl/Call-To-Arms-2009.htm

Take care all.

[FireIceTalon]

Here are some cool PvP videos that Emelaldo posted on Youtube...even if you arent really into dueling, check them out anyway, they are quite entertaining to watch. I suggest viewing them in high quality, full screen. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Emel...iew=videos

[Thenryb]

Here are some cool PvP videos that Emelaldo posted on Youtube...even if you arent really into dueling, check them out anyway, they are quite entertaining to watch. I suggest viewing them in high quality, full screen. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Emel...iew=videos

What sort of gear on the various characters? The warrior appears to be low ac. Is he wearing resistance armor? Strange Falchion of haste? I know almost nothing about pvp. I know in battling monsters useful to hit reaches a maximum so that a strange sword vs a kings sword would not be helpful for a level 50 warrior. Is this also true for pvp?

[FireIceTalon]

What sort of gear on the various characters? The warrior appears to be low ac. Is he wearing resistance armor? Strange Falchion of haste? I know almost nothing about pvp. I know in battling monsters useful to hit reaches a maximum so that a strange sword vs a kings sword would not be helpful for a level 50 warrior. Is this also true for pvp?

yea most warriors use low ac in dueling, except maybe in WvW, though even then low ac is quite common there as well....using low ac on warr is pretty beneficial since vs a rogue or sorc, your ac doesnt matter anyway. Using something like an Obsidian Stars Armor or a Ruby Whale is better then an Awesome full plate in these situations, cause in dueling resistances become far more important for the warr then armor class. By using low ac armors it frees up a jewel slot for mana and allows the warr to be more flexiable. I play my warrior with low ac in PvM as well, but thats a whole other matter. Blocking also works a bit different in PvP as well. In PvM, the formula is 220-clvl*2= dex required for perfect block, but in PvP only 100 dexterity is required for pb assuming both chars are same level. For each lvl difference, it is +2 dex required, so a lvl 45 warr for example would need 110 dex vs a lvl char that uses melee or bow.

The warr you saw using flachion I believe was Emelaldo's warrior, which indeed uses a Strange flachion of Haste. In player vs monster, Kings is indeed better then Strange, but in many instances in dueling, a Strange will be required to be able to hit the opponent if they have a high armor class value. And in the case of a high armor class rogue, not only will you need a Strange weapon, but you will also probably need 1-2 decent gold jewels as well, such as a Gold Stars/Heavens or Perfection (Gold Heavens is the holy grail for many PvP warriors).

My rogue uses 287 ac vs warriors, so you will need about the same amount of "chance to hit" as her ac, to be able to acquire auto hit on her. In duels, auto hit is pretty much required for the warr if he wants to win. Her setup vs warriors: Awesome Stars full plate, RC for hat, 2 Dragons Zodiac ring, Drakes Zodiac Amulet....on bow i switch off between Massive Swiftness/Merciless Burning. Note, the 0% resists. Rogues do not need resists really vs warriors, for if a warrior tries to cast on a bow rogue in dueling, he is a dead man :) The warrior, on the otherhand, should have fire resistance maxed when dueling rogues. Many rogues use fireball as a secondary offense on occasion in addition to their bow, and cause they have a range advantage and a faster caster rate, they are able to afford to do this, whereareas a warr cant. On the warr side of things, id suggest the following set up when dueling a high ac bow rogue: Ruby Whale armor, RC, Strange Haste, Gold Heavens, Dragon Zodiac x 2, Emerald Shield of the Tiger. In some cases you may need to replace one of those drag zodis with another gold jewel. A Obsidian Stars armor with a Whale helm of sorts also works, and is especially useful for rogues that use a thunder bow as you will have more resists maxed in this case then with ruby whale/rc set up...but most rogues prefer to use a swiftness bow of sorts in duels so often the warr only need fire resists which allows him some extra mana. Heal, teleport, and phasing are really the only spells warr uses often in pvp.

vs a Sorc: my rogue uses similiar set up to what she would vs a warrior except I change my armor class in for resistances: Obsidian Stars armor, Obsidian Stars crown, Massive Swift, jewels the same as vs warrior. Warrior vs a standard Artillery Sorc (Naj's, TC, DF/AA Wiz, etc), the following setup is good for the warrior: Ruby whale armor, Diamond Whale hat (many sorcs use flash, so this is a good idea to have rather then RC), Kings Haste/Speed, Emerald Tiger Shield, Dragons Zodiac, 2 x Dragon Life/Lion jewels......note here, the warrior can use Kings rather then Strange since this type of sorc has low ac and relies on high mana and spell lvls rather then ac/blocking. Vs such a sorc, high life and max fire/magic resistance is important for the warrior. Now if you are dueling a high ac Sorc that uses an Awesome full Plate of whatever and Stormshield, warrior will need a setup pretty similiar to what he would use vs a high ac rogue with some slight differences perhaps.

I didnt even touch on same class duels, but eh, these arent nearly as exciting as interclass pvp anyway. Warriors as you can see are the most item dependent class, in both Pvm and PvP. But in all my years dueling, ive found they are probably the strongest duelers overall, given they have all the right items. All 3 classes are pretty balanced for the most part. Rogue is my all time favorite though, they are a excellent and flexiable class and very fun to duel with, and their movements are just beautiful to watch (given the person using her knows what they are doing:)). Sorry if this was long, but hope it answered all your questions.

[weakwarrior]

So what happens if the warrior gets close enough to your rogue to start swinging. Since you don´t have a shield, won´t every hit make contact. Or is that the general idea: rogue wins 100% of the time if she keeps warrior out of reach, rogue loses 100% of the time if she doesn´t.

Quick caveat: Since auto-miss is 95% your rogue may get lucky enough to step out of reach.
Quick caveat 2: Can you switch your bow to a shield if the warrior does indeed get close enough to hit?

[weakwarrior]

Two more questions:

1) If your rogue is working with zero resists anyway, why not use a Gotterdamerong?
2) What happens in WvR if your rogue really goes for max AC. If the rogue has 385 AC (the max according to Jarulf, although as far as I can tell it should be 387.5 - AFP precision = 187.5, Godly Shield = 60, Gotter = 60 + 400/5 (dexterity = 250 base + 90 jewels + 20 armor + 20 sword + 20 helm) and the warrior doesn´t have the triple gold/perfection combo then the warrior won´t have auto-hit. Of course this requires using a shield, in which case the warrior can cast spells as the rogue won´t have a bow available. Maybe that answers my question, but truth be told, given that the warrior will only really be able to do damage casting spells, and rogues cast faster the rogue should win. I should point out that the rogue actually will have to lose a bit of AC if she wants to have resists as well, but it should still be possible to get close - unid´d Gott and one jade/obsidian jewel and one emmy/obsidian sword of precision should leave her with 383.5 AC if I am counting correctly.

[FireIceTalon]

Two more questions:

1) If your rogue is working with zero resists anyway, why not use a Gotterdamerong?
2) What happens in WvR if your rogue really goes for max AC. If the rogue has 385 AC (the max according to Jarulf, although as far as I can tell it should be 387.5 - AFP precision = 187.5, Godly Shield = 60, Gotter = 60 + 400/5 (dexterity = 250 base + 90 jewels + 20 armor + 20 sword + 20 helm) and the warrior doesn´t have the triple gold/perfection combo then the warrior won´t have auto-hit. Of course this requires using a shield, in which case the warrior can cast spells as the rogue won´t have a bow available. Maybe that answers my question, but truth be told, given that the warrior will only really be able to do damage casting spells, and rogues cast faster the rogue should win. I should point out that the rogue actually will have to lose a bit of AC if she wants to have resists as well, but it should still be possible to get close - unid´d Gott and one jade/obsidian jewel and one emmy/obsidian sword of precision should leave her with 383.5 AC if I am counting correctly.

To answer the questions from your first post, "technically" if the warr can get close and he has auto-hit, he will usually win, especially if the rogue happends to have low mana at the time (meaning she hasnt drank a pot to refill her mana globe), but remember, walking downward helps a player escape from stunlock. So yes, the rogue must keep her distance from the warr, and she can do this effectively by using a tactic called auto-aim, which involves teleporting/phasing combind with attacking.

Rogue vs Warrior duels are quit entertaining, and my fav type of duel to do (from either side). Typically, the warrior probably wins a little more often due to desync issues. But a good rogue that is fast and unpredictable is never an easy opponent. As for switching to shield during the duel, switching gear during duels is often frowned upon....its not considered good etiquette. Some rogues do prefer to duel a warrior using a sword/shield, but most of the great PvP rogues use a bow. Becoming a great pvp bow rogue takes a huge amount of practice, but this is really the proper way to duel as a rogue in my opinion. And besides, bow rogue vs warr is a much more fun duel then sword rogue vs warrior. To me, a bow rogues movements in pvp, when executed properly, are one of the most beautiful sights in d1.

Regarding use of Gotter, i dont like this helm. As you know this really darkens the dungeon up when equipped, and while this maybe effective in certain pvm situations, its not a particularly good idea in pvp vs a warrior. Royal Circlet is really the way to go, gives nice ac, +10 to all, and the 40 mana is really nice too.

A rogue going for max ac is wasting her time if you ask me. For one, a warrior with a really nice strange haste, 3 gold jewels, and a obs precision plate of sorts will still be able to hit her. And while he will be seriously gimped, she kinda will be also. For one, she would be using perfection jewels instead of zodis, which will greatly reduce her mana, hp, and casting ability. And if you want to use a shield on rogue, Storm is preferable as the rogue lacks fast block with a Godly shield. And in this case, having the 0 resists might not be a good idea as she will lack a physical ranged attack. And weapons like Emerald haste or precision on swords are only good novelty items, they are totally useless in pvp (and pvm really for that matter too). Rogue should stick with kings haste always. But if a rogue really wants to use sword/shield AND have resists, she may as well go low and get much higher attributes and mana points. I know a great rogue dueler from Japan (Emelaldo) who uses low ac with a shield rogue in duels often. I believe his set up is something as follows: Obsidian Harmony mail, Storm Shield, Kings Haste, Thinking Cap, 2 x drag zodi, and a drags wiz for extra high casting ability. He gets around 450 mana, with lvl 17 fireball, fast block, and with kings haste and fastest hit recovery. Sure he is low ac, but when using shield with perfect block, he doesnt really need the high ac. For a bow rogue however, using low ac is a serious handicap and puts her at a big disadvantage vs warr, even if she has superior items and is higher lvl. The whole idea of a high ac rogue is to force the warrior to use strange and gold jewels, reducing not only his damage, but his mana and hp points as well.

all in all, bow rogue vs warr duels are among the most exciting things you can do on d1. The onus is on the warrior to get close, while the rogue must be fast, unpredictable, and very aggressive in order to beat the warrior, especially if he is patient. These duels are very doubled edged, cause the warr cannot afford to be reckless and overly aggressive against a quick and cunning rogue. For the rogue, she must be precise and aggressive, yet one mistake can be fatal.

Here is a video of me dueling with my rogue vs Emelaldo's warrior. There are two (3 if you include the short duel vs the sorc) duels in this video, one of which i lose, the other i win. Watch both of them as you can see how each side wins. In the first duel, I make a mistake in one of my teleports and it is a fatal one...but in the second duel I move much sharper and execute the auto-aim tactic perfectly which results in a win for me, despite a mistake at the end in which i recover. I suggest you watch it in high quality, full screen. The video was recorded by Emelaldo, so you will be seeing these duels from his point of view, thus what you are seeing isnt necessarily the same as what was taking place on my screen. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln98Icy01pk...re=channel_page

[weakwarrior]

Here is a video of me dueling with my rogue vs Emelaldo's warrior. There are two (3 if you include the short duel vs the sorc) duels in this video, one of which i lose, the other i win. Watch both of them as you can see how each side wins. In the first duel, I make a mistake in one of my teleports and it is a fatal one...but in the second duel I move much sharper and execute the auto-aim tactic perfectly which results in a win for me, despite a mistake at the end in which i recover. I suggest you watch it in high quality, full screen. The video was recorded by Emelaldo, so you will be seeing these duels from his point of view, thus what you are seeing isnt necessarily the same as what was taking place on my screen. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln98Icy01pk...re=channel_page

Very elegant indeed. I was looking at some of his other videos and I´m shocked at the amount of desynch involved. Sometimes he loses almost all of his hps without me seeing anything touching him. On a seperate note, why doesn´t he use only full rejuv potions all the time?

[Thenryb]

Very elegant indeed. I was looking at some of his other videos and I´m shocked at the amount of desynch involved. Sometimes he loses almost all of his hps without me seeing anything touching him. On a seperate note, why doesn´t he use only full rejuv potions all the time?

Maybe Pepin didn't sell him enough before he went down. Obviously, I think he would if the supply were unlimited. I also rather enjoyed watching the duels. I have never done any Diablo pvp and believe I would really suck at it (a passtime for younger and quicker fingers).

[FireIceTalon]

Hehe how old are you Thenry, if you dont mind me asking. Ill be 31 in April, though I certainly dont look it.

PvP is a nice change from the usual PvM, gives the game another dimension. If you guys got into, you would probably have lots of fun, and with practice, you can get very good. I know ive wasted countless hours dueling on D1, with probably many more to come. But hey, you only live once, and ya gotta have fun in life.

Very true about the desync in PvP, Weak. Its one of the downsides of dueling, is dealing with the desync/lag issue. Some players have more desync then others, but its always there to some degree. Usually it is minimal if there are only two players in the game, but if there are 3 or 4, it can get pretty nasty. It is very easy to die for no apparant reason on your screen, especially if you are a rogue. The different classes have very different lag though. Sorc and Rogue have similiar lag in that both invisible arrows and fireball are common, though arrows tend to be harder to dodge. Warrior has the proverbial "20 foot sword/mace", where on your screen you look like you are at a safe distance from him but your mana or life is falling rapidly. On his screen, hes wacking you to death. Usually this is only a square or two difference, but it can be as much as over half a screen away if the desync is REALLY bad. This is why rogue must teleport so much, as i did in those duels. But becareful, you dont want to teleport next to him! As far as pots being used, usually a warrior will use 4 reds and 4 yellows. Eight yellows is nice but pretty pricey, and its rare for Peppin to have that many. Mages and Rogues typically use all blues, though as rogue it might be a good idea to have a couple yellows handy.

Last but not least, most of the rules for the tournament have been established. Besides the given of being a legit player using no duped/hacked items, hacking programs, and the like, they are as follows:

1. You may sign up with only one account, and you will use this char throughout the tournament.

2. Duels are done in a best of 5 set. All players will duel one another at some point, there is no elimination. There should be 3 players per game, the two opponents and an arbitrator/witness present to ensure honest results are reported. All duels are conducted in a 1v1 manner. At the end of the tournament in the event there is tied winners, these players will compete in a single FFA (free for all, aka all vs all) duel. The same rules apply as in 1v1 duels. The winner of this FFA duel will be the winner of the tournament. If enough players sign up, we may have a class winner as well (best Warrior, best Rogue, best Sorc), but this is yet to be determined.

3. Standard PvP rules apply. Guardian fall/8 pots are allowed. No inventory drinking! [exception: the player who casts guardian may drink 1 mana pot before duel begins so he/she may start duel with a full mana ball] Before one of the players casts guardian, both opponents must declare they are ready. Once guardian falls, the duel begins and continues till one or both opponents are dead. You receive 1 point per win.

4. All players must disclose their armor class, chance to hit, and resistances before they duel.....this is to prevent excuses or unfortuante circumstances of players not being equipped properly. We want these duels to be as fair and balanced as possible, and when i say that, I mean it, unlike Fox News. :P

5. You may change equipment against an opponent for the next round if you arent satisfied from the previous duel (so long as you disclose this fact to them), but you may NEVER change equipment in the middle of a duel. Doing so will result in an automatic loss for you vs that opponent. Having the wrong gear equipped shouldnt be an issue anyway as both opponents must declare they are ready before the guardian is even cast.

6. Do not res your opponent when you kill them, have tp's set in a area away from the arena and let them restart as they may need to get pots and/or repair anyway.

7. Duels are to take place in the following levels: lvl 1 (or 2-4 if no good arena is available in lvl 1) in the largest room with the 4 columns. It is desirable to have as few chests and coffins as possible, no stairs, and to keep the dungeon floor clear of random items and gold. Make sure all monsters in the area are dead too before u start to duel. The other option is level 16, quadrant 1 (the cage thats already open). Typically, the duel begins in the upper right corner OUTSIDE the middle square (as seen in the duel video i posted previously) and stays within the four sides of it, though going inside the square is perfectly legal once the duel begins. Players should agree on which arena they want to use. If no agreement can be reached, use a bot to do a coin toss. Bots are plentiful in the Diablo LE channel in USA east:P

8. Have fun.

Prizes: TBD.

[Thenryb]

I only have one level 50 character, a warrior who is probably not well geared for dueling. He has a KSOH, RC, Obs Stars mail, Obs Tiger shield, Dragons zod amulet, two zodiac rings (never found him any dragons zod rings). For pvm, he uses an HOS rather than the RC. He has no gold jewelry although he could borrow some from another character as well as an SSOH if needed. As to my age, I am 66. The only other LL member who is older I think is the venerable King Jim:)

[weakwarrior]

The 3 of us would like to start a PvP tournament of sorts, so we are looking for aspiring duelists if there any left. I know a few people in Diablo LE channel (us east) that are interested. Post here if you are interested or have any suggestions. You dont have to be a great or even average dueler to participate, its for pure fun only....though obviously having a high lvl char with decent items is preferable for both yourself and your opponent.

Cheers everyone

I guess getting myself killed a few times sounds like fun. The only character I have who could at least have a chance to put up a challenge is my mage. How much durability do I need on items to not need to worry about them breaking? Can you give me the details when you have them?

[FireIceTalon]

I guess getting myself killed a few times sounds like fun. The only character I have who could at least have a chance to put up a challenge is my mage. How much durability do I need on items to not need to worry about them breaking? Can you give me the details when you have them?

If you're using a Thinking Cap, id put it at least 31 but perferably more. Dueling warriors with low durability isnt as dangerous vs rogues, since rogues hit more often. And usually the warrs high damage often means a quick kill anyway. If its any lower then 31, you will probably have to repair between rounds when dueling a rogue.

Ill update my original post in this thread when everything is finalized.

[Model]

DIABLO POL-1 (euro)

u want to play this tour on US WEST?

here u got some more duels: http://pl.youtube.com/user/EpicentrumDiablo

- #2: gg, the game is based on lag/desynchr/frame (whatever u call it) and if u put 3 players into the game lag increases
- #3: 0 pots is better way imo
- #4: a bit lame;/, PvP is not only your moving skill but also knowledge what does your opponant CAN have and what does he HAVE now and how to use diffrent cfg to trick your opponent (i'm not saying about hacks). U Can always use diablo saver/guard to check stuff o_O. The game isn't balanced;]
- #5: so how u want to play warr/warr with elemental without changing items?:)

- flash is bugged (it got dead frames when u can't harm the sorc, so it's bad manner to use it in duels)
- warrior >> s/s rouge (with low AC even more)
- switching from bow to s/s takes much time and when warr is near u and starts swinging probably u will die before u will equip shield (maybe on full mana u will make it) but even then he will kill u either with ele or with moving. Unless he's a noob:)
- go to bra-1 (east) or pol-1 (euro) if u want to find good duelers

[weakwarrior]

I only have one level 50 character, a warrior who is probably not well geared for dueling. He has a KSOH, RC, Obs Stars mail, Obs Tiger shield, Dragons zod amulet, two zodiac rings (never found him any dragons zod rings). For pvm, he uses an HOS rather than the RC. He has no gold jewelry although he could borrow some from another character as well as an SSOH if needed. As to my age, I am 66. The only other LL member who is older I think is the venerable King Jim:)
...
I have never done any Diablo pvp and believe I would really suck at it (a passtime for younger and quicker fingers).

I don´t want to flame here, but I think you are a liar. Given that you used that equipment to get a level 50 warrior there is no way will suck at dueling because you are too slow. Maybe if you said you used a high ac perfect jewel warrior I would believe that you had no talent. Sorry, but I just don´t believe you.

P.S. seeing how I´ve never dueled myself it´s quite possible that I´m wrong.

[Noktis]

- #3: 0 pots is better way imo

- 0 potions is the best.

[Thenryb]

I don´t want to flame here, but I think you are a liar. Given that you used that equipment to get a level 50 warrior there is no way will suck at dueling because you are too slow. Maybe if you said you used a high ac perfect jewel warrior I would believe that you had no talent. Sorry, but I just don´t believe you.

P.S. seeing how I´ve never dueled myself it´s quite possible that I´m wrong.

A "liar" because I predict I would not be good at pvp? Sounds pretty harsh. The obvious difference between the two is that monsters are predictable while other players are not. Low ac warriors vs monsters is not at all difficult although you have to play carefully and watch your positioning vs certain foes such as drakes and lava maws.

[weakwarrior]

A "liar" because I predict I would not be good at pvp? Sounds pretty harsh. The obvious difference between the two is that monsters are predictable while other players are not. Low ac warriors vs monsters is not at all difficult although you have to play carefully and watch your positioning vs certain foes such as drakes and lava maws.

I was kidding. I´m sorry if it wasn´t clear. I just meant that I think you are a better player than you give yourself credit for. Truly, I apologize.

[FireIceTalon]

"- 0 potions is the best."



I beg to differ, and does just about everyone outside of Pol-1 :)

[FireIceTalon]

A "liar" because I predict I would not be good at pvp? Sounds pretty harsh. The obvious difference between the two is that monsters are predictable while other players are not. Low ac warriors vs monsters is not at all difficult although you have to play carefully and watch your positioning vs certain foes such as drakes and lava maws.

I agree with you Thenry, PvM and PvP are two totally different things. Just because one lvls a char to 50 doesnt mean they will be good at dueling. I remember back when I had my first lvl 50 char years ago, i thought I was a decent dueler back then, but I look back now and laugh.

Of course playing low ac in hell/hell teaches you good movement and in some ways this can be useful for PvP, but all in all, the only real way to get good at PvP is to actually do it....its like anything else.