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Helm of Sprits
04-22-2003, 06:44 PM
Post: #1
Helm of Sprits
Recently I heard that Helm of Sprits can only be dropped by the Butcher in multiplayer games of Diablo and by no one else. I always thought it could be find on first two levels dropped by any monsters, not only the Butcher... What is true? And does the probability of dropping it changes between nightmare and hell difficulty?

Thx for any info on that

"The Mind breaks the borders our body cannot and our Heart crosses the limitations of ordinary life"
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04-22-2003, 07:28 PM
Post: #2
Helm of Sprits
Quote:Recently I heard
Never trust what you have heard. Only trust that which you have been told.
Quote:that Helm of Sprits can only be dropped by the Butcher in multiplayer games of Diablo and by no one else.
By The Butcher: No, it is not an exclusive Butcher drop, but while I have no idea of the exact drop mechanics I can say that it is a possibility.
Multiplayer: Yep, only ever in multiplayer. SP has it's own version (Leoric's Undead Crown) but MP is the only place you can find the glorious HoS. Which I am still looking for. Bastards.
Quote:I always thought it could be find on first two levels dropped by any monsters, not only the Butcher...
The first two dlvls is not an exclusive place to find it, just where the probabilities are the greatest. However, if you like good odds, then keep hunting for Shadowbite on dlvl 2.
Quote:What is true?
Naught but the truth...
Quote:And does the probability of dropping it changes between nightmare and hell difficulty?
You have a marginally greater chance of finding it in Nightmare difficulty. You can expect to find it, in a perfect probability model, once in every 130 full-clears of dlvl 2 in NM, and once in every 140 full-clears of dlvl 2 in Hell. Of course, probabilities don't mean that much, given that some lucky, unsharing, inconsiderate bastards consider it a slow day if they haven't found three in a game :)

I hope I've helped.

- NiteFox (2.5 years without a HoS)

When in mortal danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.

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04-22-2003, 08:43 PM (This post was last modified: 04-22-2003 08:44 PM by Yogi_Baar.)
Post: #3
Helm of Sprits
NiteFox explained it well. The reason why the odds are better in NM is that there are fewer possible base item drops than in Hell. For instance, you can't get all those qlvl 20+ (or so) base items since the monsters on 2/NM are all around mlvl 16-20 (except Butch). Another thing that makes dlvl 2 so special is that it has an abundance of unique monsters which have 1/6 probability of dropping a unique item (if and only if the base item is of a suitable type, which makes this probability a bit smaller in reality). In total, there are 9 possible unique monsters:
- Rotfeast the Hungry & Soulpus (zombies)
- Pukerat the Unclean & Bladeskin the Slasher (fallen ones with spear/sword)
- Boneripper & Bonehead Keenaxe (skeleton axe & corpse axe)
- Deadeye (skeleton archer)
- Shadowbite (scavenger)
- Butcher
So that's 20 possible monster types on dlvl2, 7 of those have unique monsters. There is always Butcher. Now go find the damn thing.

NiteFox: for some of you unlucky ones it's HoS, for us lucky bastards ;) it's the Rift Bow.

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04-22-2003, 10:24 PM
Post: #4
Helm of Sprits
Technically, Helm of Sprits can drop in single player too. It would require having multiple unique helms drop in the same game, as the game in SP mode tries not to drop the same unique twice if there is another unique of the same base type. Alternatively, I guess it could be find in SP mode by using the trick to change the difficulty level.

Regarding the probabilities you listed, IIRC the probability numbers in Jarulf's Guide are for full game clears, not level clears. So really in the case of HoS, you would probably have to do full church clears to have odds that good. Of course, most people are worried about how many hours it would take rather than how many games, and for the best chance per unit time, targetting the bosses on dlvl 2 is certainly the best bet.
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04-23-2003, 08:53 AM
Post: #5
Helm of Sprits
Quote:Technically, Helm of Sprits can drop in single player too.

Well, "reduced items" only last for one game (as one of my SP warriros found out with a lovely Deadly Hunter). But also, if you chage the difficulty setting through the "play NM in multiplayer, go back to Single" you can also get it, and permanently :)
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04-23-2003, 01:05 PM
Post: #6
Helm of Sprits
So does that mean that the infamous Lighforge could be find with this trick in SP also? Would it morph with new game? Or it would be impossible to find it then? Not that I'm gonna look, I'm just curious :D

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04-23-2003, 02:05 PM
Post: #7
Helm of Sprits
So does that mean that the infamous Lighforge could be find with this trick in SP also?

I don't believe so. HoS's problem is that it has a lower qlvl than its base type. Its saving grace is the two other unique helms do not share the same qlvl. By the time monsters can drop Helms, Overlord's Helm is available and drops instead of HoS. In SP, HoS could drop in normal diff if:
1) OlH has dropped and monsters can't drop Fool's Crest yet
2) Both OlH and FC have dropped

Under these circumstances, HoS would be dropped only because the game is bending over backwards to find an eligible unique. This sort of item will morph between games.

The conversation in the preceding posts hinges on the fact that, under some circumstances, HoS can drop without being a "bent over backwards" unique. Lightforge is a different story. It's a qlvl 1 Mace behind two other qlvl 1 maces, CC and Crackrust. There's no way it can drop before the other two in any situation.

[o: *LEMMING* :o]
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04-23-2003, 06:30 PM
Post: #8
Helm of Sprits
LemmingofGlory,Apr 23 2003, 01:56 PM Wrote:Lightforge is a different story. It's a qlvl 1 Mace behind two other qlvl 1 maces, CC and Crackrust. There's no way it  can drop before the other two in any situation.
Feh. If they had kept Tremain in we wouldn't be in this mess, eh? <_<

When in mortal danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.

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04-24-2003, 05:38 AM
Post: #9
Helm of Sprits
Feh. If they had kept Tremain in we wouldn't be in this mess, eh?

I believe Blizzard handled quest items by creating a "base type" specifically for the quest item. As such, Lightforge would've received a "Lightforge" base and it'd have no conflicts with the two maces.

[o: *LEMMING* :o]
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04-24-2003, 08:28 AM
Post: #10
Helm of Sprits
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Of course, if they had allowed a perfectly legit and stable Lightforge to drop as a quest reward then I believe that much of the mystisism surrounding that crappy lump of metal and wood would never have come around.

As it is, the Lightforge is a very rare item, which intrigues many people. It is also horrendously unstable in its natural form, which intrigues people even more. True, we'd still be seeing hacked Lightforges everywhere, along with the thousands of Cleavers and Valors, but they wouldn't have the same "Oooh" factor, because the damn thing drops every single player game.

When in mortal danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.

BattleTag: Schrau#2386
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