1.10 new "synergies"

[Kharohz]

Just to organize things, lets use this post to comment on battle.net's recent screen of bonespear or other future synergies.

http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/images/ot...r/bonespear.jpg

Flame away (that means you roland).

Bone spear is now "uber"! Yay.

You would had to have lvl 80 or so Bone spear to get even with that one. Sad.

[mageofthesands]

Bone wall is going to do damage? Odd. Maybe the Skeletons will get good enough bonuses to make them deadly, or at least long lasting. More DR and AR, and IAS! That would be nice.

[Archon_Wing]

Yay! It can actualy kill things now! :lol:

[Swarmalicious]

Judging by our "false glimpse" earlier this week, and just the vibe of synergies in general, I'm pretty excited about a viable Cleric/healer paladin build. :)

[WarBlade]

Isn't it a little difficult to comment on synergies that we don't know yet? :huh:

I like the idea though. Since the release of the expansion I've been looking at the Druid Elemental Tree and saying to myself, "The Summoning Tree was a fantastic idea. Why didn't they do the same thing with the Elemental Skills?" The Necromancer looks set to benefit greatly too. :D

My one hope relating to what we've seen of the Synergies so far, is that the patch people have hopefully seen the light of reason relating to the Paladin and those Synergies we've seen were an early (mistake) version that we won't see in the patch. Looking through the other characters there was a reoccuring instance of Synergies operating within the confines of single trees. The Paladin's were a multi-tree mess. :blink:

I ran through various Open characters I have and made a few assumptions about what the synergies might eventually look like if they continue to follow the multi-tree road and found that any parity with the other classes was getting tossed aside for no better reason than aesthetic value eg. Holy Shock supported by Lightning Resistance. A rethink of what might be possible yielded far better results IMO. I was mentally linking Holy Fire, Freeze and Shock into a mutually supportive group. Prayer, Meditation, Clensing and Vigor all have similar properties etc.

As long as they stick to individual tree the system looks like it works well. OTOH mixing Synergies between Trees yields a motley series of hits and misses.

[mageofthesands]

What about adding abilities to other skills? Like if adding points to Burst of Speed increases Shadow Masters Attack Speed, while powering up Phoenix Strike improved the Shadow Master's resistance.

[Kharohz]

Bone wall is going to do damage?  Odd.  Maybe the Skeletons will get good enough bonuses to make them deadly, or at least long lasting.  More DR and AR, and IAS!  That would be nice.

I think you misunderstand it.

That is for Bonespear, if you put points into Bone Wall/Teeth/Bone Prison/ or Bone Spirit. It will raise Bone Spear damage by 7% by each point (not counting +skills)

We don't know anything about bonewall yet.

[Kharohz]

You know.. I wonder how many people are desperately trying to find +3 bone spear 2 socket wands right about now :P

Who knows if they will change White or disable it ;)

[Elric of Grans]

Hail Kharohz,

Kind of boring, eh? I hope the other synergies are more interesting: every one only adds to damage! That's what I like about the Druid ones: one adds to Damage, another to AR/DR, and another to life... you add to what you need! Of cause, it's a little different there as most people don't realy care about AR/DR, and you don't need much of a life boost, and not everyone really cares about the damage... Anywho, the point is that the variety makes it interesting. I hope they are not all like this where everything just adds to damage. I bet Bone Armour.Wall/Prison merely add more life to each other - it'll be that predictable ;) I was kind of hoping for nice effects... I don't know... perhaps limit the piercing of Bone Spear, but as you add to Teeth, you pierce more times (once for every tooth you can throw :D ), and adding to Bone Spirit adds to the Damage of both; adding to them increases Bone Spirit range and speed.

Things like that would bring out new tactics... if they are all like that screenie, then nothing much will change at all; the only change that can bring about is an *increase* in Cookie Cutter builds. After all, the only way to balance it is to expect people to pump several skills so to get an `uber' Bone Spear (or, more likely, Spirit), which means that if you *don't* do it, you'll not have a strong enough weapon - alternatively, there could be no balancing factor, which would make this even more popular. Nah... synergies seemed initially interesting, but now I'm not excited about them.

Still looking forward to 1.10 though: I'm hoping there is a nice, new (and appropriate) two-handed axe waiting there for my Grand Matron :D

[jondifool]

Hi elric
I also liked the idea of synergies! But, but, but... look what they would do for the importance of having + to all skill items. With a lot off skill looking to add damage too the use off a single skill, try calculate what a single + 1 skill items does for the damage of a skill!

this risk creating the most lame cockie cutter builds yet, as long as synergies is about damage!
So as I see it synergies is in direct konflict with the amount off + to all skills items there is in the game!
Its going to be interesting to see how they would balance this!

The best solution I see is to make synergi effect not take affect from + skills items (if possible )! This opens room for builds actual being different and interesting when trying to benefits from the synergies! As you don't get it all from having the +20 to all skills setup!

My favorite solution would have been to remove nearly all + skill affixs on all items and put in more random induvidual skill affixes! As the numbers off + skill items have spoiled the importance off spending skillpoints off track a build with 3-4 maxed skills. This means that to get to the desired lvl of skills with deminishing return either assign skillpoint (gasp) or hunt items with the right + skill bonus, ending up with more building a character, and thats what I like!

offcause another solution would be to make synergies so lame that only the character overloaded with + skills would feel a difference! And then we en up with another twist to the game, looking promising but in the end not needed and maybe even unwanted!

[TaiDaishar]

Grettings Elric.

Like you, I'm hoping for more than just a damage boost but considering Bone Spear IS a damaging spell there isn't much else you can add to it, only other thing I think of is increased cast rate.

But I disagree with you on one thing, I think this synergies will make for a wider array of viable variant builds and will probably lessen the cookie cutters we'll see on Battle.net, if you take a little look at the old version of the synergies from Dii.net (or any other side) you'll notice the only thing that are getting a boost is the ones that are just too damn pathetic to be of use.

For example, Glacial Spike (not pathetic but not really a viable option) gets an increase from other skills while Frozen Orb does not.

Oh, to the one who said about the connection of the defensive/offensive aura boosts, I think it's a great idea, how many people you see actually use the defensive auras? Most of them aren't bad and can be very beneficial but the thing is that they're simply not worth the skill investment, the only thing most paladins will be using is redemption/salvation and only 1 point in each since more than 1 is not necessary.

If this connection between the two aura trees is still in 1.10 I think it'll encourage a lot of people to actually use the defensive auras, here's some theoretical scene:
Paladin Bob the Almighty is an avenger and as all avengers he relies on Vengence and Conviction(or Fanatiscm), but Bob the Almighty wants to increase his vengence damage since those cows just keep on coming and he can't keep the pace, so he decides to pump Lightning Resist (speculation, I don't have an idea if Lightning Resist will actually increase vengence's damage but lets say it does).

Now Bob the Almighty is satisfied, the cows feel his wrath, until he get to the Cow King, uh oh, Cow King is a LE,CE,FE boss and Bob is pretty lacking on resistances, especially on lightning so since he already invested points in Lightning Resist, why not use it for the sake of staying alive, in the end the Cow King drops dead and as usual drops a cracked sash.

THE END

What I wanted to say in the above story is that if people will pump their defensive skills (even for mainly use them as an enhancment) they might find situations they'll prefer the added survivability instead of the added killing speed in some occasion (another example, when you're surrounded by an enormous amounts of cows you'll prefer to get hit less instead of hitting for slightly more, making Defiance a good thing for the job)

Hehe, silly me, Jondi, this quote is for you, taken directly from GFraizer:

Only the points you assign, and not those granted by items, give synergy bonuses

[Jugalator]

Hi elric
I also liked the idea of synergies! But, but, but... look what they would do for the importance of having + to all skill items.  With a lot off skill looking to add damage too the use off a single skill, try calculate what a single + 1 skill items does for the damage of a skill!

The synergy bonuses are NOT increased by +skill items, only by the skill points you put yourself.

I'm quite happy with these changes myself. Sure, there might be more cookie cutter builds, but only if they managed to make skills very powerful (too powerful) with these synergies. If not, I think they're a great way to make tons more character builds viable. And that will make me want to play and enjoy this game longer, which is my only wish for 1.10.

[NiteFox]

Yay. Pointless business-speak buzzwords that really mean absolutely nothing have finally made it into videogames. Now how long will it be before "bizz-speak" replaces "l33t-sp34k" and motivational posters adorn the walls of FPSs?

[Brother Laz]

:angry:

- Synergies are NOT affected by +skill items. Ya gotta raise that bonewall naturally.
- Not all of them are about damage, but what else can you do with bone spear? Some add to shiver armor chill length and some add to damage, for example.
- But once ppl find an area without immunes, they'll max all skills that boost their main attack, and in exchange for 80 points they now have teh bm0b b0n3 5p1r17! :(

[WarBlade]

Oh, to the one who said about the connection of the defensive/offensive aura boosts, I think it's a great idea, how many people you see actually use the defensive auras? Most of them aren't bad and can be very beneficial but the thing is that they're simply not worth the skill investment, the only thing most paladins will be using is redemption/salvation and only 1 point in each since more than 1 is not necessary.

Oh, to the one who hasn't considered very far, what you accurately pointed out was that there are skills in the defensive tree that nobody uses. Using Lightning Resistance (just as one example) as purely a passive upgrade will ensure it continues to remain unused.

As it has been since 1.00 If the defensive Auras are to be actively used they must have a useful in-game function.

1 point in Redemption and Salvation eh? :blink: ok. :huh:

If this connection between the two aura trees is still in 1.10 I think it'll encourage a lot of people to actually use the defensive auras, here's some theoretical scene:
Paladin Bob the Almighty is an avenger and as all avengers he relies on Vengence and Conviction(or Fanatiscm), but Bob the Almighty wants to increase his vengence damage since those cows just keep on coming and he can't keep the pace, so he decides to pump Lightning Resist (speculation, I don't have an idea if Lightning Resist will actually increase vengence's damage but lets say it does).

Now Bob the Almighty is satisfied, the cows feel his wrath, until he get to the Cow King, uh oh, Cow King is a LE,CE,FE boss and Bob is pretty lacking on resistances, especially on lightning so since he already invested points in Lightning Resist, why not use it for the sake of staying alive, in the end the Cow King drops dead and as usual drops a cracked sash.

Unfortunately what Bob's player failed to realize was that with points already split between Vengeance, Conviction, Holy Shield and either Fanaticism or Meditation, he no longer has a decent supply of spare points to spend on Lightning Resist.

Not that he needs it, considering the chances are that his Lightning Resistance is already at 75.

What I wanted to say in the above story is that if people will pump their defensive skills (even for mainly use them as an enhancment) they might find situations they'll prefer the added survivability instead of the added killing speed in some occasion (another example, when you're surrounded by an enormous amounts of cows you'll prefer to get hit less instead of hitting for slightly more, making Defiance a good thing for the job)

Or, like most Paladins, you could keep your +100% Resist All shield handy (if not already equipped by default) and retain full Offensive Aura capability. I personally never invest in those 4 Auras because their only use would be against Conviction Enchanted bosses in Hell and those are fairly few.

No, the Synergies in the cases of the Elemental Resist + Attack Auras might have been intended to encourage point investment in the Defensive Tree, but they certainly won't do much to encourage active use. <_<

[Sickywicky]

I screamed of excitement when I saw that Bonespear skill, that means my favourite character get's a boost he has been praying for for 2 years !!! I used to duel 1vs4 with my necro way back in D2C, he had a ornate plate. :D

[NiteFox]

If they make it so that you have to boost Shockwave to get the most out of Fury, I'm gonna maul someone :)

[WarBlade]

Based on what we've seen so far I doubt Fury will get any kind of boost whatsoever. I'd expect Fury might impact on something like Feral Rage or possibly even Werewolf, but with that tree being the two-sided affair that it is I'm kind of hesitant to guess what any synergies might be . . . :unsure:

Perhaps a link between Hunger and Rabies would be in order. :D

[NiteFox]

I don't see how, would you want to eat poisoned meat? :)

[WarBlade]

The Komodo Dragon has an interesting predatory tactic. It sneaks up and gnaws on its prey briefly, infecting the hapless beast with a lethal cocktail of bacteria specially cultivated in the lizard's mouth for the express purpose of infection. Eventually the victim will die of it's wounds several days later and the lizard finally steps up to take it's meal. :)

As to how this useless trivia applies to D2 Werewolves . . . well it doesn't really. Those two skills are linked by the fact they are both bites and are both underutilised. ;)