Robert Jordan Theory (A bit wacky)

[Chaerophon]

I just figured that there was no better place where I could vent my disappointment with the turn that this series has taken. I have been rereading a couple of the later books in the series in order to bone up for the new book (once it comes out in paperback). The editing is ABSOLUTELY ATROCIOUS! Compared to the earlier books in the series, his writing style has completely gone to crap and I find myself drifting constantly. The pattern that has developed - nothing, nothing, nothing.... oh, better wrap this thing up with some excitement and meaningful plot development, I'm at my page quota - is very disappointing.

So, this brings me to my point. I'm not particularly educated with regards to Jordan's history, etc. However, I suspect that perhaps there is something funny going on. Is it possible that the continuation of this series is being written by more than one person? It has lost so much of its flavour and creativity that I honestly am compelled to believe that it may be possible that someone else has at least helped him to write the last few books. It seems to me to have taken on a patterned 'bleh' feel characteristic of, for example, the most recent Simpsons episodes that are written by committee and lack the flair and dynamism of earlier episodes. (I know, strange reference) For the first four books, I absolutely lived and breathed "The Wheel of Time", however, I'm considering not even purchasing this next book on the basis of its complete descent into mediocrity.

Anyways, my theory may be way off base; however, the fact that it seems at all possible speaks volumes as to the sort of artistic integrity that Jordan has exhibited as these novels have progressed. The "it's a long story" excuse won't cut it for me. He made his bed, now lie in it. Besides, if it wasn't a damn cash grab, I'm pretty sure that the story could be over by now.

Sorry, a bit of an "airy" post, to be sure, but I'm sure that there's at least a few people on here who feel the same way.

[ShadowHM]

The last book is more of same, excessively wordy and excessively descriptive (who care what colour the birds embroidered on the various cloaks and dresses are?).

I was very disappointed, even though I had low expectations.

[Jonathon Spectre]

I agree with everything Chaerophon said.

It's pretty bad when you're waiting for something to happen, and what happens is the end.

JS

[wundergore]

I don't know about the whole "someone else is helping him write the last couple of book" theory, but I agree that the series as a whole has taken a turn for the worse, writing-wise.

Personally, I think the story has ballooned beyond what was intended. There are way too many sub-plots and characters to keep track of. The last book doesn't even come close to dealing with all that is going on. It just barely touches on several of the main characters (Perrin, anyone? Mat?)!

Quite frankly, I've gotten to the point where I think he just needs to end it.

W>

[Mark]

I would like to add my voice to the chorus here. I'm tired of looking forward to the next book when it's just more... I've reached the point where I have forgotten why I'm reading. Truly sad. I'm going to wait until the last book (if it exists) before purchasing anymore.

[TaMeOlta]

I stopped reading around book 5 a few years back , OK , so what have I missed ?? :P

[Caorn-Riastra]

Same with me. After 4 books of him killing one 'major' bad guy a novel and not getting any closer to victory, I got a little sick of it. By the way, I heard that Robert Jordan is bringing back 'dead' Forsaken, is this true? Because if so, I don't see an end to this series in sight.

Book XXI, Last chapter - "Hello Rand let us battle....again!" Bleh.

[Sword_of_Doom]

In response to your post on Robert Jordan (i am an avid fan as well that has become jaded with his last 3 books), i have read and been told that originally it was to be a 9 book series (apparently it will go to 12 now) and it was more commercial pressure to keep going than creative pressure. Basically the last few books have slowed the timeline down to a wallk and also he has spent a lot of unnecessary time dealing with the arguements between main characters.

If you like this style of literature i would recommend Elizabeth Hayden as a great writer who writes in the same creativity and huge world as Robert Jordan.

[ldw]

I heard that Robert Jordan is bringing back 'dead' Forsaken, is this true?

Yes. Some of the ones that didn't perish to balefire (i.e. death is apparently irreversible then) have been reintroduced as ... new characters (they are reincarnated as someone else).

[Griselda]

I've never read any Robert Jordan, although it's been somewhere on the "list of stuff to read when I get a chance" for a while. But, it's clear that readers' expectations have been in steady decline as the series gets longer. I'm wondering if it's worth it to begin at all. I've read a few other series that have been left unresolved, and I find that incredibly frustrating. Would I be setting myself up for a similar experience?

-Griselda

[ShadowHM]

I would say that there are many other wonderful books/series out there that merit more of your scarce leisure time than this series.

I loved the first few books. I even bought them on tape to enjoy for car rides. But they has gone steadily downhill in terms of the plot to verbiage ratio.

There is a huge and sprawling cast of characters. In fact the last book spent its entirety bringing us up to the the time frame of the previous book, just with a different part of the cast.

And, for your reading pleasure: May I suggest "Family Matters" by Rohinton Mistry ? I just started reading it last weekend at the cottage, forgot it there and have been kicking myself all week. :)

Edit: I have consulted with some teenage friends on this. Apparently, Robert Jordan, in a book reading at the University of Toronto last fall, admitted that his plan for the series does not involve resolution of all the conflicts he has created in the story line. He plans to resolve only the one main one and leave the rest dangling for our own imagination to resolve. He 'promised' that he would end the story in the next 'two or three' books. In other words, we will get more of same.

[Chaerophon]

Having thought about it more over the past two days, I've realized just how sad I am that the series has declined as it has. The first four books are some of the most outstanding fantasy writing that I've encountered. For quite some time during my early teenage years, I was simply engrossed with the world that Jordan was revealing to me. Granted, part of my distaste may have come with age, but it's hard to forget the innocent Rand and his friends thrust into a world beyond their limited understanding. (I know, I know, it's been done, but rarely has it been done so well.) Unfortunately, the appeal of the core characters has been lost and I can't see myself finishing the series. I'm very curious as to what is going to happen, just as I always was, but, to answer your question, Griselda, I wouldn't get started. I know that I got my girlfriend involved a year or so ago and now that she's reached book nine, she's starting to get almost as disappointed as I have become. It's a real shame.

[IcepickVT]

I want to add my name to the list of jaded readers. It has become a joke between acouple of friends of mine how little has actually happened in the last few books. If the same thing happens to GRR Matins "A Song of Ice and Fire" I will be bitterly dissapointed.

[vor_lord]

If the same thing happens to GRR Matins "A Song of Ice and Fire" I will be bitterly dissapointed.

What a disturbing thought! I really can't see Martin's books ending up the same way--he's too good, and has had more flair for character and plot than Jordan ever had (even though I agree with the consensus that the early books were very good). I'm more worried about Martin dying than flagging. A Feast for Crows is taking so long. I just started rereading A Game of Thrones to get ready for it.

In my opinion, the worst thing about the Wheel of Time isn't that so little happens (although its bad--this last one was unbelievable--not a single event--NOTHING!), but rather that all the characters have ended up with the same personality.

Everyone is incredibly petty, frightfully immature, and flies into ineffectual rages at the drop of a pin. I'm not sure, but somewhere around book five every female character turned into a personality clone of Nynaeve (about as unlikable as any woman character I've read about anywhere). A book or two later, and the male ones did too.

And wielding the power is somehow commonplace, Aes Sedai are just a bunch of bickering bitches whose skill in the power is dwarfed by the Sea Folk and the Kin, not to mention the Ashaman. There's nowhere to have a sense of mystery or awe. Just annoyance. Yet I feel obligated to finish out the series for some idiotic reason.

[IcepickVT]

I hadn't thought of Martin dying before finishing, now I'm worried about that too. I agree Martin is the better writer and I shouldn't be too worried about following WOT's path because the characters and stories are so diverse and interesting. I reread all three and then Feast was delayed. I will most likely reread them all again when I hear a firm date of release.

I swear one of the books (6th or 7th) took place in less than a half hour of real time. The last book I was thinking 80% through and no update on Rand, that was annoying.

True, but before everyone became bossy like her it gave her character. None of the people introduced since Padan Fain have been very interesting either.

I like the fact that after all the time of them sitting on top of the magic heap so to speak they have got knocked down a peg or two.
I'm sure I'll finish it out too. I keep hoping for a return to the fist books style and perhaps the last books with a clear ending in mind he can accomplish this.

[Dyntheos]

I have tried to read book eight, 3 times. I just CAN'T get into it, and I have put my finger on why.

It's the women.

Now my wife seems enjoys the dialogue in the books but for me the original four books about the 3 boys has changed into one long tedious cat fight between the women in the series. WHOLE chapters devoted to dialogue that is totally pointless and that is essentially the women in the books babbling on about inconsequential things and arguing constantly.

If that's what i wanted to experience I'd watch day time TV. Where is Rand, Perrin, and Mat??? I mean hell it's not as if the story is about them or anything... The chapters in which they feature, I love. Except when the women manage to screw it up.

My most favorite parts of the story, were Perrin learning about his nature, Mat when he is freed of the Dagger in the white tower and then heads off, and his Band of the Red Hand when he first went into battle and picked up all those troops. Unfortunately Rand is pretty much surrounded by women all the time and any chaper he is in degenerates into the women telling him off.

Seriously I feel at times as though either Robert Jordens wife or mother is standing over him with a wooden spoon berating him like a 5 year old as he writes, and it just ends up being translated into his writing.

What is painfully obvious is that it's now all money driven. We have Roleplaying and PC games based on a world that hasn't even seen an ending to it's main story. We have a WoT atlas to it's lands and Creatures, without it being fully explored. I guess we'll see part one of the WoT Movie Trilogy before Jorden finishes the damn story at this rate..

Bitterly disappointing.

[T-hawk]

I'm considering not even purchasing this next book on the basis of its complete descent into mediocrity. . . . If it wasn't a damn cash grab, I'm pretty sure that the story could be over by now.

I decided that somewhere back around book five or six. Whichever one (trying not to spoil) had Rand traveling but idle for about half the book. It became clear that Jordan was going to write forever as long as there were suckers lining up with bills in hand. I put the series out of my mind and haven't regretted it one bit.

If you or anyone wants to read something with a narrative complexity close to that of Wheel but reaching a conclusion, try Guv Gavriel Kay, Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors. Best contemporary fantasy this side of Robin Hobb.

[Occhidiangela]

1. The 'sniffers.'

2. An editor without a sack.

3. A loss of vision, i.e. the need to focus, in about book 3.

4. Falling in love with every character, and every secondary character, and every bar maid, and every demon he ever wrote about.

5. Monty Haul.

6. Nothing better to do with his time

But the biggest offender is

7. Enabling Behaviour: the fools who still keep buying the books. I stopped at 7, read the next few from the library, and am mad I got suckered for that long. At least I bought paperback.

We, the book buying public, are the problem here. We are the crack addicts.

He is just the pusher.

[Chaerophon]

We, the book buying public, are the problem here. We are the crack addicts.

True enough. However, the fact remains that as I continued to read on into the later books, I found myself so attached to a couple of the original characters - namely Rand - that, rather than judging the books on their overall descent, I found myself saying "that's not what Rand would do", as though he existed outside of Jordan's realm. I suppose that his original characterization, then, is Jordan's "crack". In particular, the situation with the three ladies truly perplexes me. I'm afraid that Jordan's erotic fantasies have undoubtedly tainted his original establishment of Rand's character - someone whom I genuinely liked and would have enjoyed seeing through to the conclusion of his ordeal.

However, the fact remains that you are correct.

[Occhidiangela]

Jordan Lost Control. He forgot that his main character was Rand.

Me, I was hoping for some really sordid scene, described in erotic detail, of Rand him, Mim, Elayne, and Egwyne (or maybe his Avienda) all mixing it up in a tent somewhere. Given Jordan's habit, however, the problem with that would have been that just before the four of them all dropped their togs to the ground and started to wrestle, the girls would of course get into this great cat fight and sniff fest regarding who gets to play with Rand's SanGreal. While they claw and spit at one another, and Rand would go half nuts and wander off in search of a Green Shawled Aes Sedai, in hopes of becoming her Warder and, finally, getting laid again. (Poor guy, he never can seem to get a break.)

That change in plot would mean that the Taint would spread and the world would end, but given Rand's complete deterioration and descent in to madness, dying at the end of the world in the arms of a hottie Green might be a better fate than being bitched to death, which is where he seems to be headed now. :)