notes on v1.10 (beta) Assassin Blade skills

[Crystalion]

I've spent enough time observing v1.10 beta Assassin Blade skills that what I can share about their actual effects off of the top of my head might be useful to some students of mechanics...

Shield, as has been noted repeatedly, is messed up in the mpq data for 3/128 weapon damage instead of the skills described 1/4 weapon damage, which would be 32/128. If I had to guess I'd say they'll fix this and leave the Blade skills otherwise alone (for release).

All 3 skills now "add" in "weapon" damage, setinel/fury/shield: 3/8, 3/4, 1/4. Although the display (as of beta) doesn't show AR for the skills, Fury definitely needs it (probably the other two do as well, I can't say at this time).

By "weapon" though, they essentially mean what your damage would be from a normal attack (i.e. Str/Dex bonus, whatever adders bonus, weapon damage). All the types of damage remain their own type, just reduced.

Other reports and "common sense" suggest all three attacks are blockable. I believe this without having run a PvP test--easy enough to do if you wish to be sure.

Prior to v1.10 Shield would not trigger the LE of LEBs (iirc--I remember Hurricane and Rabies wouldn't, I am less sure about Blade Shield) and this deserves v1.10 testing.

Blade Sentinel is not a ranged attack per se, in that you can't "shoot" it over obstacles you couldn't walk over. I do not recall if this means you can't shoot it through the bars in the Jail (etc.) but I think not. It is, like charged bolt, a bit "fickle" in its pathing. I won't try to do justice to it in words, as it is a low level skill so you can start up a char and see it for yourself without too much time/effort. The key factor for Sentinel is that it "pierces" in the sense of hitting a target and continuing on to try and hit other targets, *including* coming back and hitting the same target again. With a 4 second lifetime and a 2 second recast timer this attribute is effective but not uber (the cool whirling blade animation travels a bit too slowly to hit a single target more than 3 times during its lifetime and twice, in practice, seems far more likely).

If your merc or shadow is tanking/blocking a crowded doorway and you have (normal or on a switch) good phys/elem/poison damage then targeting this on the other side of the doorway can generate a lot of hits (whirlwind's kid brother, eh?). Because, like charged bolts, there is a small amount of "attraction to target" for the blade, it would be an option to just throw one out every couple of seconds as you're playing "keep away" from the nasties (I killed normal Duriel this way, fyi, because I was not yet a studly bootysin). All in all, unlike versions prior to v1.10 this seems like a worthwhile one-point skill (afaik the benefits to pumping it are effectively non-existant).

None of my tests showed any effects/procs transfering from the character to either Sentinel or Shield (flee, open wounds, knockback, etc.) but I did notice that chill duration transfered (I had 7 cold charms on at one point) whereas cold duration did *not* transfer for Blade Shield). This is a huge nerf for Shield, which I now view as a utility spell for chilling/poisoning (to prevent regen) for melee assassins, and otherwise not of much use. Since your Shadows count as "melee assassins" it is good that they keep Shield up (and better if the 3/128 => 32/128 fix comes through) but Shadow Masters essentially lose the poison pseudo-PMH effect also keep Venom up perpetually, which I would not recommend for a "utility" Shield user, as the period between Shield strikes is much longer than 0.4sec Venom (pre-monster duration reductions) cap.

Blade Fury, as I and others have noted elsewhere, is really nice. Of all the other class skills, it is conceptually closest to Bowazon Multishot. Both work at 3/4 and are ranged attacks costing mana carrying damages and effects (including leech). Blade Fury seems like it has a fixed casting rate (several per second) without the need for/benefit from IAS or faster cast items. Blade Fury is spammable in the same way that Inferno/Artic Blast are. That is, you can pretty much keep it going and aim it where you like (useful as the "start to cast" time has a little bit of overhead). The *key* difference between BF and MS is that MS requires bows but that BF works with whatever weapon type you wish. Obviously this allows the use of a shield for blocking (or dual claws which also can block, via passive skill). (tech note: at least in single player, you can actually still get off a weapon switch while continuing BF if BF is also selected as the skill on the switch).

Since, in the beta, the AR isn't displayed for Blade Fury, I haven't seen anyone puzzle out how its AR is being calculated or what it does/doesn't benefit from as boosters. IIRC it does benefit from ITD.

Because a user of Blade Fury can still block without giving up melee damage if they are a kick artist (Dragon Talon is a very good melee skill, as of v1.10 beta) they can change between ranged/melee "fighting modes" without using up their weapon switch or taking time to do so. AFAIK neither quantity or durability of weapon is consumed (ala Bowazon Magic Arrow) making the BF Assassin potentially a world class "throwing" class (AR being the key impediment to deal with).

[lemekim]

Hmmm... while in 1.09 there is indeed no benefit to pumping Blade Sentinel, I seem to recall from my playtesting in 1.10 that the duration of it increases with higher levels. Are you sure about the constant duration? Or maybe my memory is playing tricks on me.

[Crystalion]

Hmmm... while in 1.09 there is indeed no benefit to pumping Blade Sentinel, I seem to recall from my playtesting in 1.10 that the duration of it increases with higher levels. Are you sure about the constant duration? Or maybe my memory is playing tricks on me.

Ah, excellent point. Arreat Summit is still wrong on this score. The duration goes way up if you pump it. I will come back with an edit in an hour or so if no one else does, but it seems like around .4 secs/skill pt.

edit: yep, displays 13.1 seconds at level 20, making them last long enough to barely be able to (with the 2 second recast delay) bump into the 5 trap limit. Of course if you have other traps out you'll bump into that effect (it zaps an older trap as you cast the new one) sooner.

Neither Blade Shield or Fury have this effect, to wit, only Blade Sentry is a "trap".

I personally can't see pumping BS for the duration unless you have points to burn or an odd build. But getting a duration bump with +skills is nice.

[lemekim]

Good to see that my memory sometimes still works. I did forget about the 5 trap limit; but now that you mention it, I remember encountering it in my tests. The limit makes me wonder about the whole purpose of the 2 second delay - spamming the trap would not really add to the damage (since you can only have 5 going at once), and the graphics are not nearly that intense...

But yes, I can't really see any benefit from putting more skillpoints into it, especially when +skill items can extend the duration to something decent.

[Crystalion]

The limit makes me wonder about the whole purpose of the 2 second delay - spamming the trap would not really add to the damage (since you can only have 5 going at once)

Well, while I find recast timers annoying, I understand exactly why they are imposed, and Blade Sentry is no different than the others...

That is, imagine I could spam out 5 Sentries and then open a door my Shadow is blocking/tanking:

crowd of monsters, 5 whirling blades, 13 seconds duration, each blade hitting, say, two monsters per second (because of the tight packing) for 3/8ths of your normal weapon damage... ballpark of +4x your normal weapon damage per second for quite some time without having to do anything to keep it up. What a deal.

By throwing a recast timer in there you have to really work at achieving that including lost time in the heat of battle when you could/should be doing something else.

Clearly Blade Sentry benfits from the Cloak of Shadows -DR% motionless monsters in a blender more than the other traps (although I suspect Wake of Inferno really prefers immobile monsters).

If you could, ala the Cow Level, rely on dense monster packing with CoS control, then I imagine pumping Blade Sentry to have more in the air at once makes some sense for a specialty build (hmm, pumped CoS for *duration* and pumped Blade Sentry for *duration* doesn't sound so weird when after a few corpses you drop a couple Death Sentries).

Makes me wonder... are the rules for monsters being immune to CoS the same as immunity to blind/Dim Vision albeit that CoS doesn't suffer the nm/hell time reduction penalty?

[Crystalion]

rely on dense monster packing with CoS control, then I imagine pumping Blade Sentry to have more in the air at once makes some sense for a specialty build

I am now of the opinion that a specialty build with pumped (pts + +skills) blade sentry shows promise because of a factor I forgot to think about...

Blade Sentry uses 3/8 of the "weapon damage" (~= your normal attack phys/elem/poison with str/dex, mastery(?) adders) ***at the time of casting***.

(tech note: testing for enchant, venom, and all damage enhancing auras would be appropriate, because some of them might be set when the blade sentry trap is set and others could conceivably be consulted at time of hit)

That is, with high duration (slvl20 = 13.1 seconds) this trap can be set off of a weapon switch (e.g. to some big/slow 2h weapon with tons of damage and adders) and will repeatedly deal damage as if it were the mini-me version of this weapon without you being occupied/rooted/otherwise in danger (or even without a shield, as you've weapon switched back).

Since Blade Fury doesn't need skill point pumping and also carries effects/procs I can't quite give Blade Sentry, in light of this new perspective, an "uber" rating, but I certainly feel comfortable calling it "near-uber" given v1.10s rare drop/gamble ==> base upgrade cycle virtually guaranteeing "high" level characters access to massive damage output weapons.

I've not really paid attention myself (since I don't use CoS much == overkill for my style of play) but over at the amazon basin I think I read that, other than duration bump with skill points, the other improvement in v1.10 beta for CoS is that attacking a CoS cursed monster doesn't lift its curse. I don't remember v1.09 CoS with ranged attacks, since I was always a melee-sin at that time, but certainly in v1.10 beta when I CoS a monster and then pump blade fury into it it just stands there and takes it. This, of course, is a huge boon for Blade Sentry and all traps (not "waking" the CoSed somnolent monsters).

Indeed my particular flavor of bootysin build maxes out all its needed skills at 55 or so (I'm 48 now) so I had been thinking about what I'd want to dump surplus points into later. I'm not high enough level yet to post my build/comments but I will in a week or two. But I will certainly give maxing Blade Sentry a try and report back.

[Dagni]

Blade Sentinel has listed in skills.txt, under the column 'passivestat1': 'tohit', and under 'passivecalc1': 'lvl*5'. So another benefit to pumping Blade Sentinel is to get a boost to AR. Neither of the other Blade skills have any such bonus listed.

Of course, I have no real idea how much of a benefit it gives. If a level 20 Blade Sentinel is giving +100 AR, big deal. But if it is giving +100%, that could be quite nice. Or it could do something completely different, for all I know.

(the cool whirling blade animation travels a bit too slowly to hit a single target more than 3 times during its lifetime and twice, in practice, seems far more likely).

Do you know if the Blade has to leave the area of a monster and reenter to damage it a second time? With a big enough monster - like Duriel - it is relatively easy to get one that stays within the body of the monster its entire duration.

Anyway, although I haven't used the skill in awhile, IIRC a well-placed Blade at close range can hit 4-5+ times, at least better than once per second. So I think that "no more than 3 times" only applies when throwing the Blade at range, with a longer flight path. Like Charged Bolt, for example, its effectiveness against a single monster is much higher if you use it at point-blank range.

- Dagni

[Crystalion]

Blade Sentinel has listed in skills.txt, under the column 'passivestat1': 'tohit', and under 'passivecalc1': 'lvl*5'. So another benefit to pumping Blade Sentinel is to get a boost to AR. Neither of the other Blade skills have any such bonus listed.

Of course, I have no real idea how much of a benefit it gives. If a level 20 Blade Sentinel is giving +100 AR, big deal. But if it is giving +100%, that could be quite nice. Or it could do something completely different, for all I know.

I finally got around to thinking about this again because of some Great Race investigations I'm doing. I took at look at what you describe and also the monstats.txt entry for the "blade creeper". Cain help me, I'll be damned if I can figure it out from that.

So I did some testing PvP. Given characters of equal or roughly equal level I first convinced myself that massively changing the victim's DR (defense rating) seemed to affect how often Blade Sentinel hits. I had more trouble seeing any difference by changing the attacker's AR.

So I took a breather and ran the tests with Blade Fury which clearly shows roughly the expected relationship of hitting/missing based on changed both the defender's DR and attacker's AR.

I scratched my head a bit pondering the possibility that Blade Sentinel *doesn't* get attacker AR but nonetheless hits quite often. I believe therein lies the answer. The results I'm seeing (wide range of measurement error, alas) are consistant with the idea that BS has poor AR (i.e. not benefiting from attacker's AR) but nonetheless hits pretty often because it tries, tries, and tries again.

Ah, but you protest: "if it is trying so often, then why doesn't it hit like crazy when the defender has almost no DR?!"

My answer to this would be to suggest that it remembers the last target attempted, and will not attempt to hit that same target "too soon" again.

This is all armchair speculation based on the results I saw. However, probing the theory by creating a new victim, a level 33 Amazon with slvl 10 decoy (no dodge, evade or avoid skill), and running the BS through the Amazon and decoy (and back) generated a greater number of hits (on the Amazon herself, as opposed to without a decoy), as the theory would predict.

In other words, Blade Sentinel really is, as I once remarked, a "poor grrl's whirlwind".

To further test this line of thinking, I gathered a small cloud of weenie monsters to me and let loose a BS... as expected, it can easily drop large numbers of them in an eyeblink. (Certainly "large numbers" w.r.t. the limited number of hits it will ever do over several seconds PvP vs. a "defenseless" target). An especially good test of this would be vs. a blinded clump of ghost type monsters, where you knew how many times a BS would have to hit them individually to explain the damage dealt--the theory suggests that since they overlap that a "short throw" BS might hit them all repeatedly fairly quickly.

To those of you wondering what this line of testing has to do with the Great Race, I will, at this time, be coy, and merely mention that BS is a clvl 6 skill, and the twink word of the hour is: "Envy". B)

[Ferengi]

Oh you Passionless Kingslayer piercing my Stone Heart of the Oak, under yonder Crescent Moon. You have left a Famine of facts, begetting an Enigma with Chaos and Delirium. With my Breath of the Dying, I issue a Call to Arms for the Lurker Hand of Justice to rise against ye, while I'm bound by Chains of Honor to spend Eternity and Exile never obtaining Sanctuary from this Beast of a question.

1) What is "Envy"?

2) How do I work Bramble into that?

[Ruvanal]

Blade Sentinel has listed in skills.txt, under the column 'passivestat1': 'tohit', and under 'passivecalc1': 'lvl*5'. So another benefit to pumping Blade Sentinel is to get a boost to AR. Neither of the other Blade skills have any such bonus listed.

Of course, I have no real idea how much of a benefit it gives. If a level 20 Blade Sentinel is giving +100 AR, big deal. But if it is giving +100%, that could be quite nice. Or it could do something completely different, for all I know.

The bonus is just a straight +(lvl*5) AR. The code for the +AR% is item_tohit_percent.

I scratched my head a bit pondering the possibility that Blade Sentinel *doesn't* get attacker AR but nonetheless hits quite often. I believe therein lies the answer. The results I'm seeing (wide range of measurement error, alas) are consistant with the idea that BS has poor AR (i.e. not benefiting from attacker's AR) but nonetheless hits pretty often because it tries, tries, and tries again.

Ah, but you protest: "if it is trying so often, then why doesn't it hit like crazy when the defender has almost no DR?!"

My answer to this would be to suggest that it remembers the last target attempted, and will not attempt to hit that same target "too soon" again.

Basically correct. The missile that is used has a built in delay of 25 frames before it can hurt the same target again. Prior to that though it can attempt to be hitting the target once per frame while the missile and target are 'overlapping' till it does get that hit that starts the delay count. This missile will be using the casters clvl and the +(slvl*5) AR for its to hit calculations. While any one of its to hit checks is not great, it will typically get several chances and as such the real point is what is the chance of not getting hit at least once in a pass? The missile will be able to interact with all targets in its area of effect (the overlap) in a manner similar to the way a nova blast can hit all the targets in its 'overlap'. Useful for tightly packed groups.

1) What is "Envy"?

Jewel of Envy, req level of 1, poison damage with rate of 103/256 per frame for 50 frames (~20 points over 2 seconds or ~10pts/sec). I listed it out his way for what is to follow.

To those of you wondering what this line of testing has to do with the Great Race, I will, at this time, be coy, and merely mention that BS is a clvl 6 skill, and the twink word of the hour is: "Envy".

Ah, but you seem to be forgetting that the way SrcDam has been changed from v1.09 to v1.10. It now also effects more than just the physical damage from the user, but also the elemental effects too. With the Blade Sentinel having a SrcDam=48(of 128) this is cutting down the rate of the poison damage to 103*48/128=38 damage per frame or ~3.7 damage per second. Also note that the 'blade skills' also have an additional factor that when using a 2-handed weapon that the SrcDam will be cut in half yet again (flag Half2HSrc=1 in missiles.txt), so it is not recomended to do this with 2-handed weapons.

2) How do I work Bramble into that?

The extra-pois effect from bramble will be increasing the rate and duration of the poison effect as an additional multiplier; it does not add in as one of the other factors. Also since the required level of use of the Sur Rune is 61, it is somewhat out of the scope of what Crystalion was looking at.

edit:fixed quotes

[Ferengi]

While reviewing interesting weapons for Blade Fury, I wonder if anyone knowns about Tomb Reaver Returned monsters. Who's side on they on? How long do they live? How many can exist?

I may end up finally playing an Assassin for the new tricks in 1.10, assuming I get spare time.

[Crystalion]

The bonus is just a straight +(lvl*5) AR.  The code for the +AR% is item_tohit_percent.

I was afraid of that. With an AR of only 5 I can't even see the point of a Conviction Paly helping such a rushee out. This whole thing seems pretty broken to me (a 5% minimum to-hit attack that checks every frame and thus still hits just seems a screwy way to go about coding).

Basically correct.  The missile that is used has a built in delay of 25 frames before it can hurt the same target again.

Well, as I theorized, this still begs the question of just how it is implemented that it remembers who/when it hit. If the missile itself remembers, and uses one bucket instead of a linked list, then it will match my theory and my (admittedly error prone) observations.

The missile will be able to interact with all targets in its area of effect

Hmm. Obviously I should add missiles.txt to the list of files I scan. Just how large is this AoE roughly in terms of the "range" numbers we know and love?

Jewel of Envy, req level of 1, poison damage with rate of 103/256 per frame for 50 frames (~20 points over 2 seconds or ~10pts/sec).  I listed it out his way for what is to follow.

Ah, but you seem to be forgetting that the way SrcDam has been changed from v1.09 to v1.10.  It now also effects more than just the physical damage from the user, but also the elemental effects too.

No, I didn't forget. It's the Flawless level of poison damage with a clvl req of 1 that has drawn my attention. Getting only 3/8ths is still good enough... sockets: 3 body, 3 mask, 3 shield, 6 sword (crystal--all twinked, so why not go for max sockets here also?) should be 15x20x3/8 or 112.5 poison damage in 2 seconds (assuming the target doesn't get refreshed with poison by the "whirlygig"). Not bad for a clvl 6 "cast and forget" spell.

Also note that the 'blade skills' also have an additional factor that when using a 2-handed weapon that the SrcDam will be cut in half yet again (flag Half2HSrc=1 in missiles.txt),

Useful to know, thanks.

Also since the required level of use of the Sur Rune is 61, it is somewhat out of the scope of what Crystalion was looking at.

Strangling Gas Potions and Poison Javalin at clvl 6 seem to be pretty effective. But Walkiry mentioned that Assassin BoS (burst of speed, clvl 6) was very helpful in practice in the Great Race. (Naturally we'll twink Hsarus' boots and belt also). This suggests that getting to the monsters with BoS & +run/walk, luring them into clumps and "cast and forget" killing them with Blade Sentry has potential. The 112.5 above can be bumped at clvl 18 (perf emeralds in sword) and along the way by charms (including other +damage charms). Doorway and corridor fighting are likely to also be amenable to this technique (whereas poison javelin and blaze fall down there).

I really like the clvl 12 Blade Fury skill, so I stopped using Blade Sentinel with my Assassin once I got there. However that may have been a tactical mistake, as a deeper understanding of the mechanics of the skill and bending build and playstyle accordingly might be time efficient (at least for a twink).

While my hopes for this approach are still not so high as to imagine I can touch the fantastic leveling times possible by assisted play (as opposed to twinking) I'm still, as I've mentioned, quite interested in things one can do without having to have two characters (or humans at least) actively involved in playing at the same time.

[Ferengi]

The extra-pois effect from bramble

Ah Ruvanal, you are a serious man. you might want to get another look at the first paragraph in my post.

[Crystalion]

Well, as I theorized, this still begs the question of just how it is implemented that it remembers who/when it hit. If the missile itself remembers, and uses one bucket instead of a linked list, then it will match my theory and my (admittedly error prone) observations.

I have done enough testing now to be reasonably sure of how the implementation actually works, and folks, it's buried here in this post because the results aren't pretty. Reporting it as a bug is tempting, but it is the implementation that is non-optimal, and what are the chances in the current v1.10 feature-freeze chaos that a implementation method choice will be completely redone?

I have not code read so what I'm about to tell you could actually be more general or more particular than I will casually describe, however my testing shows I'm pretty close to the mark...

Missiles.txt has a NextHit and NextDelay column that guides an implementation for recurrent missile hitting that bears striking resemblance to the simplistic skill recast delay mechanism we all know and hate. A NextDelay missile apparently puts its NextDelay framecountdown time into a (single) bucket on a target it hits (which is then counted down for the target as frames occur). The key is that this stored generically with the *target*, not as a memory of hitting with the *missile effect*. So the problem is that *any* NextDelay missile effect first checks a target's bucket, and if it is non-zero, doesn't hit (probably doesn't even try to hit, but I don't know the internals, only the evidence externally from testing).

Most "missiles" don't have NextDelay, but quite a few do. (For simplicity, if you just assume that any effect that isn't a melee strike is a "missile" you won't be too far off).

A couple have really long NextDelay, such as Blade Creeper (Blade Sentinel) and Shockweb (25 frames, or one second).

Some, apparently (for example) certain infamous Diablo attacks, have a short NextDelay.

Testing with Shockweb and Twisters seems to validate my theory. The theory indicates that a player helpfully being PvP towards you and casting shockwebs under your feet (not very hurtful) could grant you effective immunity to other NextDelay missiles (verified with Twisters, but also indicated strongly with Blade Sentinel) such as special Diablo attacks (perhaps DiabloClone also?--don't ask me, I'm new to missiles.txt: perhaps someone else will properly annotate them for us).

Naturally I'm fairly unhappy with this state of affairs, as this means that pumping the duration on Blade Sentinels in order to spam them is not really effective.

Of course this effect can also be the basis of a potentially a nasty exploit, reminiscent of D1 (still to this day) having missile collision failure for a player traveling due east or due west (the amazing firewall walking swami trick etc.).

Here's a (non-annotated, partial) list of NextDelay "missiles" from missiles.txt (i.e. things you can test to see if shockweb effectively grants you "immunity" from)...

nova
chainlightning
teeth
poisonnova
frostnova
diablight (not sure, as NextHit is blank, which may invalidate NextDelay being 3)
diabfire
coldunique
nova1
nova2
multipleshotarrow
multipleshotbolt
battlecry
lightningstrike
fistoftheheavensbolt (ditto NextHit comment above)
warcry
battlecommand
battleorders
grimwardscare
chainlightning2
shock field
blade creeper
erruption crack 1
erruption crack 2
twister
tornado
volcano
volcano small fire
dragonbreath missile
death mauler (hmm, I hate these guy's attack, so I'm half tempted by "immunity")
shockwave
wake of destruction (and "maker")
lightning charge up nova
chainlightningcharge up
baal taunt lighting (and trail)
baal inferno
baal nova
clawsofthunderbolt
clawsofthundernova
royalstrikechainlightning
royalstrikechaosice
baal cold maker (and trail)
lightningtowernova
viper firecloud
trapnova
mephfrostnova

As I say, I don't know the code or the missiles.txt, so some of these may not be relevant (and other effects might also use NextDelay on a target perhaps). I'm not expert enough to translate all those funny names for you either, though some of them seem pretty obvious to me (e.g. I suspect royalstrike = Assassin charge-up release of Phoenix strike).

[Crystalion]

teeth
poisonnova

Previous testing was PvP. I've now done PvM testing (I modded to have items with charges of shock web in game) showing monsters "immune" to these when under the shock web delay effect. No wonder I've seen comments about Shock Web sucking bigtime--this is, in some ways, a worse effect than the "Ruvanal effect" (psuedo-healing on combo element attacks vs. high immunes).

[Zath]

Phrozen Keep is down at the moment, so I cannot reference any article or posts from them at the momemnt. My understanding of NextHit and NextDelay is as follows however:

NextHit determines the minimum delay between two missile hits from the same character or monster

NextDelay determines the minimum delay between two hits of the same missile from the same character or monster. (Edit: I should expand this to include the "same cast" in cases where multiple missiles are released by a single skill casting)

Now that is a mouthful, so let us look at an example. blade creeper is the missile used by the Blade Sentinel skill. This missile has NextHit=1 and NextDelay=25.

The NextHit=1 value of blade creeper will ensure that no matter how many Blade Sentinels an Assassin has launched into the air, only one of them (implicit "one") may hit any single monster per 1 frame (explicit "1" from NextHit). If two different Assassins each launch a Blade Sentinel however, there is nothing that will restrict them from hitting the same monster in the same frame.

The NextDelay=25 value of blade creeper will ensure that once a Blade Sentinel hits a monster, that specific Blade Sentinel missile will not be able to hit the same monster again until 25 frames have passed. Notice here that there is nothing restricting another Blade Sentinel missile from hiting that same monster within these 25 frames, except for whatever constraints of the NextHit value.

There should not be any room for exploit here because the NextHit check is performed with each missile type of each character or monster, and the NextDelay check with each missile regardless of origin. You cannot ask another character to immunize you from missile damage since the NexHit and NextDelay restrictions for his missiles only apply to him. This should be how things worked in all previous version of D2, and I doubt Blizzard would break this in v1.10s.

The result of all this is that you shoudl be able to spam Blade Sentinel to good effect. While the ideal spamming missile should have NextHit=0 and NextDelay=0 (e.g. charged bolts), the restrictions on Blade Sentinel here will not have a significant impact on your performance due to other practical constraints such as your casting speed.

Edit: If you really wish to test this with Shock Web and Teeth, I would suggest you first increase Shock Web's NextDelay to some high value and significantly increase the damage of Teech. With how the monster health bars are updated, I wouldn't be surprised if most monsters look as if they are immune to Teech under normal circumstances.

[Crystalion]

There should not be any room for exploit here because the NextHit check is performed with each missile type of each character or monster, and the NextDelay check with each missile regardless of origin.

Hmm. I know I can be verbose and hard to understand at times, but I had hoped I made it clear that I have *confirmed* this misfeature through testing in v1.10s. I am not discussing a "theoretical" bug, but rather a very real problem. The only "theory" involved is in guessing at exactly what simplistic code mechanism puts us in this sorry state of affairs.

So, other than not reflecting the (v1.10s) code, your remarks are a nice clarification of a reasonable way for the code to work. :blink: Perhaps there is still hope that they will amend the code to do something like you suggest.

[Zath]

Let me put it this way then: I don't think your tests are conclusive :P

That was what I was trying to hint that while it looked as if I was going off on a tangent discussing theory. You have to be a little more thorough then eyeballing monster health bars. Try modding monsters to have 10 life, give Shock Web 1 damage, NextDelay=10000, and make sure it only launches one missile, then hit that same monster with a 100 damage Teeth.

Edit: I need to find a better skill example. Didn't mean to confuse you with Strafe, sorry!

[Ruvanal]

QUOTE 
The bonus is just a straight +(lvl*5) AR.  The code for the +AR% is item_tohit_percent.
I was afraid of that. With an AR of only 5 I can't even see the point of a Conviction Paly helping such a rushee out. This whole thing seems pretty broken to me (a 5% minimum to-hit attack that checks every frame and thus still hits just seems a screwy way to go about coding).

If I am interpreting the way the minions are being set up correctly, the bladecreeper will have the AR of the caster plus the listed bonus. So unless you are in an area where you are way ahead of the mlvl-clvl curve, the to-hit chance should be better than 5%. Still the most important effect here is the repeated attempts to get a hit (at least until a successful one).

QUOTE 
The missile will be able to interact with all targets in its area of effect
Hmm. Obviously I should add missiles.txt to the list of files I scan. Just how large is this AoE roughly in terms of the "range" numbers we know and love?

missiles.txt size=3, compared to things like arrows size=1 or 'shock field on ground' size=2 or armageddonexplosion size=3. Some of things in missiles.txt are hard to interpret and get a handle on. The size seems to be in Tile Units. The size=3, I would look at being about the distance that you could closely space three gems dropped on the ground.

Some, apparently (for example) certain infamous Diablo attacks, have a short NextDelay.
....
Of course this effect can also be the basis of a potentially a nasty exploit, reminiscent of D1 (still to this day) having missile collision failure for a player traveling due east or due west (the amazing firewall walking swami trick etc.).

For most of the missiles with a NextDelay, it is to avoid having the effect deliver far too much damage. The delay is to allow the missile(s) effect to pass through the target while only damaging once per 'volley' as opposed to once per missile that hits. For example the Sorceress Nova skill is (iirc) composed of 96 overlapping missiles that are spreading out. With their individual size and shape, there would be about 1/4 that amount that are overlapping the target in anyone frame. Not to mention that the target could still be in the overlap area for 2 or 3 frames of time depending on the size of the target. With most of the delays that are 4 or less this will not really be a problem. Although it is something of a problem with a fast acting missile like the chainlightning ones that might keep occillating between two targets or get in the way of spamming some repeatedly before the first set is dissipated (amazon: Lightning Strike for example). Usually it is the long delays (10 and 25) that will be interfering with the activity of other missiles with this NextDelay setting.

Also you may want to consider modding the NextDelay factor to a higher value for your testing. Or even putting it on a different missile altogether for the testing purposes. Putting it on say firebolt with a NextDelay=250 might prove useful for certain testing.

[Crystalion]

You have to be a little more thorough then eyeballing monster health bars.

You might wish to test it yourself. No mod is needed. Assassin Shock Web is ideal to use as a lock out and both Wake of Fire and Blade Sentinel can be locked out. This isn't a difficult test.

Indeed, although the animations and damages are different from v1.10s, it is very clear to me that Shock Web (slvl 1) in v1.09 (SP, not realm test) is also locking out Wake of Fire (slvl 20). This is the only test I've done in v1.09 and I am not prepared to test anything on Realm.

In v1.10s, trusting my eyesight for detail in seeing a monster not damaged on their health bar isn't a relevant issue, not just because the swings are large and obvious, but also because, as I noted above, I have done the test with Poison Nova. It is rather hard to miss a difference in whether a monster fails to turn green based on whether they are being "protected" by a shock web.

I have also tried Chain Lightning and a number of other spells on the list.