04-11-2005, 03:58 PM
This reply is actually to both Bolty and Treesh but I'm going to put it under Bolty's post.
Most of my real experiences with instances involve various 5-man groups in upper level instances (BRD, Scholo, Strat). This probably has some bearing on my perspectives.
Generally, as Bolty says, a lot of an instance is "trash" that can be handled very easily by well balanced groups. That said, this "trash" can be dangerous in two particular cases; 1.) Someone in the group isn't sure of exactly what is going on, 2.) You have a less than ideal group (such as the Priest, Priest, Rogue, Rogue, Hunter group I spent time in Strat with). In these cases it is more imperative to make sure everybody knows the exact strategy before engaging the mobs. Certain pulls might be repeated multiple times, thus allowing the group to move more quickly (due to familiarity) but it is still important to have everyone on the same page. Thus I would extend the points to say that you have to be sure that everyone in your party is ready mentally as well as physically (mana, health, etc.) before pulling. Different groups will have different levels here so this is another component to the "pulse" of the group.
The other thing is that crowd control moves from more of a convenience to an absolute necessity at higher levels. If you have it you should be using it. This means that the concept of a pull is very fluid. Any form of crowd control can be used as a pulling tactic (with the exception of Sap which is usually bad if it pulls :)). This means that any one of the tank, mage, warlock, hunter, or priest could be pulling on any given pull. I have personally been body pulling as a priest in Scholomance before in the room leading to Jandice Barov as it allowed me to assess a pull quickly and determine where to send my shackle. Also, thanks to Quark I've learned to never underestimate the power of distract when setting up a pull ;). Rooms such as the Reliquary at the beginning of Scholomance can involve 3 or 4 different pulling tactics over the course of clearing the room. This is another case where making sure everyone knows exactly what is going on is key.
A group might be perfectly capable of handling a pull, but if someone isn't on the same page they could wipe just as easily. This will sometimes require the group to slow down just to be sure of what is going on. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to get full mana every time, but it does mean you might have to pause for an extra few seconds to do things like call targets or designate which group is being pulled next as pulling tactics may vary. It might surprise some people, but as the priest I very rarely drink other than when I am in a buffing rotation (and getting Prayer of Fortitude has shortened that downtime). I often start battles with less than full mana as a capable group is usually ok against "trash" mobs. I usually try to be above half when we start but drinking as a battle starts is always an option. It is extremely rare that your tank will go down in the first 5-10 seconds of a "trash" mob fight unless the pull went badly, and in that case you are in bad shape anyway. In more zerg-like situations I will actually buff on the fly and I can complete runs of places like UBRS by only drinking before boss fights.
I guess my general response is that very often capable groups can move more quickly through instances and it is certainly true that you don't have to wait for things like full mana before every pull. That said it is still important to be sure that everyone knows what is going on before a group is pulled. As long as this is satisfied moving swiftly has its advantages (like potentially avoiding respawns, less chance of running into fatigue).
- mjdoom
Most of my real experiences with instances involve various 5-man groups in upper level instances (BRD, Scholo, Strat). This probably has some bearing on my perspectives.
Generally, as Bolty says, a lot of an instance is "trash" that can be handled very easily by well balanced groups. That said, this "trash" can be dangerous in two particular cases; 1.) Someone in the group isn't sure of exactly what is going on, 2.) You have a less than ideal group (such as the Priest, Priest, Rogue, Rogue, Hunter group I spent time in Strat with). In these cases it is more imperative to make sure everybody knows the exact strategy before engaging the mobs. Certain pulls might be repeated multiple times, thus allowing the group to move more quickly (due to familiarity) but it is still important to have everyone on the same page. Thus I would extend the points to say that you have to be sure that everyone in your party is ready mentally as well as physically (mana, health, etc.) before pulling. Different groups will have different levels here so this is another component to the "pulse" of the group.
The other thing is that crowd control moves from more of a convenience to an absolute necessity at higher levels. If you have it you should be using it. This means that the concept of a pull is very fluid. Any form of crowd control can be used as a pulling tactic (with the exception of Sap which is usually bad if it pulls :)). This means that any one of the tank, mage, warlock, hunter, or priest could be pulling on any given pull. I have personally been body pulling as a priest in Scholomance before in the room leading to Jandice Barov as it allowed me to assess a pull quickly and determine where to send my shackle. Also, thanks to Quark I've learned to never underestimate the power of distract when setting up a pull ;). Rooms such as the Reliquary at the beginning of Scholomance can involve 3 or 4 different pulling tactics over the course of clearing the room. This is another case where making sure everyone knows exactly what is going on is key.
A group might be perfectly capable of handling a pull, but if someone isn't on the same page they could wipe just as easily. This will sometimes require the group to slow down just to be sure of what is going on. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to get full mana every time, but it does mean you might have to pause for an extra few seconds to do things like call targets or designate which group is being pulled next as pulling tactics may vary. It might surprise some people, but as the priest I very rarely drink other than when I am in a buffing rotation (and getting Prayer of Fortitude has shortened that downtime). I often start battles with less than full mana as a capable group is usually ok against "trash" mobs. I usually try to be above half when we start but drinking as a battle starts is always an option. It is extremely rare that your tank will go down in the first 5-10 seconds of a "trash" mob fight unless the pull went badly, and in that case you are in bad shape anyway. In more zerg-like situations I will actually buff on the fly and I can complete runs of places like UBRS by only drinking before boss fights.
I guess my general response is that very often capable groups can move more quickly through instances and it is certainly true that you don't have to wait for things like full mana before every pull. That said it is still important to be sure that everyone knows what is going on before a group is pulled. As long as this is satisfied moving swiftly has its advantages (like potentially avoiding respawns, less chance of running into fatigue).
- mjdoom
Stormrage:
Flyndar (60) - Dwarf Priest - Tailoring (300), Enchanting (300)
Minimagi (60) - Gnome Mage - Herbalism (300), Engineering (301)
Galreth (60) - Human Warrior - Blacksmithing (300), Alchemy (300); Critical Mass by name, Lurker in spirit
ArynWindborn (19) - Human Paladin - Mining/Engineering (121)
Flyndar (60) - Dwarf Priest - Tailoring (300), Enchanting (300)
Minimagi (60) - Gnome Mage - Herbalism (300), Engineering (301)
Galreth (60) - Human Warrior - Blacksmithing (300), Alchemy (300); Critical Mass by name, Lurker in spirit
ArynWindborn (19) - Human Paladin - Mining/Engineering (121)