Newark Execution Murders

[kandrathe]

Here are a few connections I think worthy of contemplating here in the Lounge.

4 Newark students are lined up against a wall and coldly shot in the head execution style.

Anderson Cooper -- Execution-style slaying rocks Newark

John McClain, a pastor and a police chaplain, compares the grisly murders to terrorism.

"The government of the United States is fighting terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. But we have terrorists right here. Every week someone is shot and killed. What happened Saturday night, if that wasn't a terrorist act, you have to tell me what was," McClain said

MS13 - Al Queda Ties?

The MS-13 gang, aka Mara Salvatrucha 13, is one of the most violently dangerous gangs in the United States - and one of the most organized. The MS-13 gang has cliques, or factions, located throughout the United States and is unique in that it retains is ties to its El Salvador counterparts. With cliques in Washington DC, Oregon, Alaska, Arkansas, Texas, Nevada, Utah, Oklahoma, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Florida, Canada, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico, and several other South American countries, the MS-13 gang is truly "international" and on the verge of becoming the first gang to be categorized as an "organized crime" entity.

Al Qaeda Ties?
The Washington Times reported on September 28, 2004, that the notorious MS-13 gang had held meeting with the terrorist group, Al Qaeda. The meetings were rumored to concern methods of smuggling humans into the United States across Mexican borders. Police indicated that Al Qaeda had sought a partnership with MS-13.

Washington Times Article

[Jester]

Seems unlikely that these rather nasty gang members have anything at all to do with Al Qaeda. (Link from the Wikipedia article.)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-02...-salvador_x.htm

Seems to me like the Salvadoran government is just kissing US butt by trying to link the two countries' problems. The amount of cash that the US has traditionally poured into El Salvador to fight Communism is surely well remembered by their rightist government. Colombia provides a staggeringly good model of how willing the US is to provide cash and military power to fight whatever the current enemy is. (First Communism, then drugs, now terrorism.)

The Washington Times, of course, would dearly love to see two major conservative talking points come together in one tidy package: Illegal immigration and terrorism. That newspaper is off the handle, like mixing Fox News with Sun Myung Moon and putting it to press.

Has anyone except the government of El Salvador, and the Washington Times (edit: ... and the usual suspects...) suggested that this is the case?

(A quick Google shows me that this particular ball has also been picked up by the Boston Herald, and then passed it to Michelle Malkin, worldnetdaily.com, jihadwatch.com, etc... Needless to say, it'd be nice to have another source, if there is one.)

-Jester

[Thecla]

Here are a few connections I think worthy of contemplating here in the Lounge.

I also hear that 9/11 was planned by the CIA.

[Taem]

I also hear that 9/11 was planned by the CIA.

Are you poking fun at Kandrathe's MS13 thread, or are you proposing a serious plausibility? If you are serious, please provide some links, because I've never heard anything even remotely factual about the CIA having any part of planning 9/11.

[Munkay]

Are you poking fun at Kandrathe's MS13 thread, or are you proposing a serious plausibility? If you are serious, please provide some links, because I've never heard anything even remotely factual about the CIA having any part of planning 9/11.

You didn't know? The CIA, NSA, ARMY, NAVY, US Coast Guard, SPCA, EPA and US Parks and Forestry were all involved. It was all orchestrated by George Bush himself. Its 100% factually proved by a video online by some dolts who present 'the true facts' of 9/11. :wacko:

I'd laugh except the number of people who actually believe that are surprisingly high. I know firsthand a few incredibly bright individuals who believe it was all a conspiracy. Ugh.

I'm certain Thecla's tongue is planted firmly in cheek, MEAT.

In regards to both events (the Newark Execution and 9/11), there's something about human nature which strives to rationalize seemingly irrational events. In the case of the Newark shootings, after reading the articles I still find it a big stretch to try to connect this back to Al Qaeda. Then again, these days who isn't said to be linked to Al Qaeda? :mellow:

Cheers,

Munk

[Vandiablo]

I also hear that 9/11 was planned by the CIA.

Absolutely. The stock number of the planning document is 7510L4505459. They've done a pretty good job of keeping it off the Internet, but you can still see a reference to the title of the document if you Google the stock number. But you didn't hear it from me.

-not V, really, just an impostor, honest

[Taem]

I'm certain Thecla's tongue is planted firmly in cheek, MEAT.

I know, but I thought it would be amusing to take a serious spin on the subject matter at hand. Perhaps the whole MS13 problem is merely sensationalism, but nonetheless a good tie in from a media point of view on the current boarder issue in America.

[kandrathe]

Absolutely. The stock number of the planning document is 7510L4505459. They've done a pretty good job of keeping it off the Internet, but you can still see a reference to the title of the document if you Google the stock number. But you didn't hear it from me.

-not V, really, just an impostor, honest

Do you mean the part of that document that says;

"You will also need your membership ID number to
access the “Members Only” portion of the ASHE
website at www.ashe.org. To access the Members
Only area, input “airforce” in the user name field,
and your 7-digit ID number. The Members Only
area utilizes system cookies so that a login is only
required once every 30 days. If you mis-type any
information on this site the system will detonate
charges which will collapse both World Trade Center
Towers, so be very very careful."

[kandrathe]

You didn't know? The CIA, NSA, ARMY, NAVY, US Coast Guard, SPCA, EPA and US Parks and Forestry were all involved. It was all orchestrated by George Bush himself. Its 100% factually proved by a video online by some dolts who present 'the true facts' of 9/11. :wacko:

I'd laugh except the number of people who actually believe that are surprisingly high. I know firsthand a few incredibly bright individuals who believe it was all a conspiracy. Ugh.

I'm certain Thecla's tongue is planted firmly in cheek, MEAT.

In regards to both events (the Newark Execution and 9/11), there's something about human nature which strives to rationalize seemingly irrational events. In the case of the Newark shootings, after reading the articles I still find it a big stretch to try to connect this back to Al Qaeda. Then again, these days who isn't said to be linked to Al Qaeda? :mellow:

Cheers,

Munk

I find it more interesting to speculate on events before they happen, rather than to moan about how stupid we are after the fact. So, if MS13 is in bed with Islamic fundamentalists, then you heard it here first. Of course, it would be hard to prove without some good evidence, like the recent arrest of Fakrhul Islam, and alleged MS-13 member Frankie Sanchez-Solorzano in Boston.

National Terror Alert Response Center

[Jester]

I find it more interesting to speculate on events before they happen, rather than to moan about how stupid we are after the fact. So, if MS13 is in bed with Islamic fundamentalists, then you heard it here first. Of course, it would be hard to prove without some good evidence, like the recent arrest of Fakrhul Islam, and alleged MS-13 member Frankie Sanchez-Solorzano in Boston.

National Terror Alert Response Center

Sorry, are you claiming that the arrest of Fakruhl Islam and of Frankie Sanchez-Solorzano constitutes good evidence that MS-13 has made an alliance with Al Qaeda to sneak terrorists into the United States?

That was somewhat unclear.

Seems like extremely vague, circumstantial evidence to me. What connection does Fakruhl Islam have to Al Qaeda? He is invariably described as a "Bangladeshi Muslim," a disinction shared with a 100 million other people, give or take. And is there any necessary connection to MS-13 except for Frankie Sanchez-Solorzano, apprehended with him? Who were the other 11? Why were they together? Sounds more like coincidence than conspiracy.

The whole case for the connection between MS-13 and Al Qaeda seems, at every point, seems to be based on coincidence, speculation and connect-the-dots, Oliver Stone style.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Sorry, are you claiming that the arrest of Fakruhl Islam and of Frankie Sanchez-Solorzano constitutes good evidence that MS-13 has made an alliance with Al Qaeda to sneak terrorists into the United States?

That was somewhat unclear.

Seems like extremely vague, circumstantial evidence to me. What connection does Fakruhl Islam have to Al Qaeda? He is invariably described as a "Bangladeshi Muslim," a disinction shared with a 100 million other people, give or take. And is there any necessary connection to MS-13 except for Frankie Sanchez-Solorzano, apprehended with him? Who were the other 11? Why were they together? Sounds more like coincidence than conspiracy.

The whole case for the connection between MS-13 and Al Qaeda seems, at every point, seems to be based on coincidence, speculation and connect-the-dots, Oliver Stone style.

-Jester

Here is another connection...

[Jester]

Here is another connection...

And, once again, is there anything of substance there? Or just a whole lot of speculation?

-Jester

[Swiss Mercenary]

Are you poking fun at Kandrathe's MS13 thread, or are you proposing a serious plausibility?

I've got good money that he's making fun of "The milk went sour because of Al Queda" claims.

[eppie]

The Washington Times reported on September 28, 2004, that the notorious MS-13 gang had held meeting with the terrorist group, Al Qaeda. The meetings were rumored to concern methods of smuggling humans into the United States across Mexican borders. Police indicated that Al Qaeda had sought a partnership with MS-13.

Well the solution for this is obviously very simple. Just give GE the contract to build 100,000 explosive detection ports, and let everybody take of their shoes when they want to cross the border. You Americans have the solution there right under your nose.
ps I almost forgot, also ask those Mexicans if they packed their own bags.

[Occhidiangela]

Well the solution for this is obviously very simple. Just give GE the contract to build 100,000 explosive detection ports, and let everybody take of their shoes when they want to cross the border. You Americans have the solution there right under your nose.
ps I almost forgot, also ask those Mexicans if they packed their own bags.

Ya know, living where I do, in South Texas, I can't help but hold in immense contempt your decision to trivialize the damage that MS-13 does in the border regions of my state, and elsewhere in both my country and in Mexico.

It isn't because they are Mexicans, numb nuts, it is because they are a ruthless, well organized drug cartel. Not a street gang, but a cold hearted bunch of folks much like La Cosa Nostra. Were I Al Qaeda, I'd watch my back working with these guys, as they are a "take no prisoners" bunch.

Those people don't screw around, unlike certain jackanapes from the Netherlands I could name.

DR

[Jester]

It isn't because they are Mexicans, numb nuts, it is because they are a ruthless, well organized drug cartel. Not a street gang, but a cold hearted bunch of folks much like La Cosa Nostra. Were I Al Qaeda, I'd watch my back working with these guys, as they are a "take no prisoners" bunch.

This is especially true because, by and large, they aren't Mexicans.

-Jester

[Munkay]

Ya know, living where I do, in South Texas, I can't help but hold in immense contempt your decision to trivialize the damage that MS-13 does in the border regions of my state, and elsewhere in both my country and in Mexico.

It isn't because they are Mexicans, numb nuts, it is because they are a ruthless, well organized drug cartel. Not a street gang, but a cold hearted bunch of folks much like La Cosa Nostra. Were I Al Qaeda, I'd watch my back working with these guys, as they are a "take no prisoners" bunch.

Those people don't screw around, unlike certain jackanapes from the Netherlands I could name.

DR

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in, in agreement with Occhi's post. I watched that major network special (NBC was it?) last fall on them. Startlingly scary stuff for a Northeastern with no prior knowledge. To think of them as just another gang is very far from the reality of the situation.

Cheers,

Munk

[kandrathe]

Ya know, living where I do, in South Texas, I can't help but hold in immense contempt your decision to trivialize the damage that MS-13 does in the border regions of my state, and elsewhere in both my country and in Mexico.

It isn't because they are Mexicans, numb nuts, it is because they are a ruthless, well organized drug cartel. Not a street gang, but a cold hearted bunch of folks much like La Cosa Nostra. Were I Al Qaeda, I'd watch my back working with these guys, as they are a "take no prisoners" bunch.

Those people don't screw around, unlike certain jackanapes from the Netherlands I could name.

DR

An acquaintance of mine up here in the Twin Cities was trying to provide sanctuary to a girl who wanted to leave MS13, but they found and killed her. They are a part of my definition of evil.

[eppie]

Ya know, living where I do, in South Texas, I can't help but hold in immense contempt your decision to trivialize the damage that MS-13 does in the border regions of my state, and elsewhere in both my country and in Mexico.

It isn't because they are Mexicans, numb nuts, it is because they are a ruthless, well organized drug cartel. Not a street gang, but a cold hearted bunch of folks much like La Cosa Nostra. Were I Al Qaeda, I'd watch my back working with these guys, as they are a "take no prisoners" bunch.

Those people don't screw around, unlike certain jackanapes from the Netherlands I could name.

DR

O I agree with you. We in the Netherlands also have the nasty habit of trying to arrange business in and for other countries (Iraq, Afghanistan) while at home things are not going to good. Of course we don't have gangs like this, but if we continue our politics (internal and external) it will be a matter of a few years.

But it is good to see that you got my point.

[Pantalaimon]

O I agree with you. We in the Netherlands also have the nasty habit of trying to arrange business in and for other countries (Iraq, Afghanistan) while at home things are not going to good. Of course we don't have gangs like this, but if we continue our politics (internal and external) it will be a matter of a few years.

But it is good to see that you got my point.

You know who else adopted the sort of isolationist policy you seem to be advocating in the 1930s? The US. You know what happened? The world went to war.

Hey look, I can handwave vague anecdotes too!