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http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/
Cross-Realm BGs
Enhanced World PvP
Rogue Talent review
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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06-21-2006, 09:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2006, 09:11 PM by lemekim.)
Quote:http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/
Cross-Realm BGs
Enhanced World PvP
Rogue Talent review
That's excellent news. Given the wording, it appears that various sources predicting this new addition were correct about Blizzard making clusters in 1.12, and are probably right about cluster size as well (16 realms).
Isn't Blizzard redoing the whole Honor system as well? I really hope that in the next patch, PvP becomes a solid, viable alternative to raiding in terms of character progression, and not boring grind with absurd time investment that it is now. New honor system, cross-server Battlegrounds, and more World PvP could really make PvP fun again, and I really hope it will.
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06-21-2006, 09:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-21-2006, 09:41 PM by Concillian.)
Quote:Isn't Blizzard redoing the whole Honor system as well? I really hope that in the next patch, PvP becomes a solid, viable alternative to raiding in terms of character progression, and not boring grind with absurd time investment that it is now. New honor system, cross-server Battlegrounds, and more World PvP could really make PvP fun again, and I really hope it will.
I don't know about re-doing the honor system, but it is my hope that cross server BGs will bring about:
1)
- more PUG on PUG action, because my scheduled grouping with people time is already generally reserved for PvE instancing, and currently if you're in a PUG you will generally get beat down hard by organized groups in 4 of 5 matches.
It is my expectation that this will lead to more PUGs merely because they are much more often the 'remainders' and the cross server BGs should help the 'remainder effect' greatly (20 + 2 on one server = 350 + 2 on 16 servers, with all of the extra groups PUGs)
2)
- more lower level BG action
3)
- more off-hour BG action
4)
- More off-holiday AB and AV action (lately any AB game I've been in ends up 7 on 15 or something because one side barely got enough people to join in.
I don't really care about the honor system rewards, I just enjoy playing in BGs from time to time... the game styles are similar to a FPS type game without requiring quite the reaction time of an 18 year old, and is a fun way to kill time, when you aren't so out classed anyway. It would also provide some nice rep gain possibilities.
I'm not sure it will do too much for faction imbalance queues at prime-time, but it should help quite a bit in the off hours.
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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Words cannot express my scepticism about the world PvP. How are they going to keep it fun and fair when there is such a wildly different population between servers?
Cross server battlegrounds aren't enough to make me want to PvP. They do make possible the next step - matchmaking based on rank.
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Quote:Rogue Talent review
Looks like Quark's gonna have his work cut out for him :whistling:
Otherwise, very good news. Definitely looking forward to the reinvention of world PvP, though I'd like to see DKs removed as a matter of course.
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
The original Heavy Metal Cowâ¢. USDA inspected, FDA approved.
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Quote:though I'd like to see DKs removed as a matter of course.
Newish casual player loggs in for his 1hr a day of warcraft. Farms a bunch of raptor feathers. Goes to turn them in at the XR. Can't find the quest giver because sombody just gave him the remote backstab. His whole night is ruined.
Can you fix this problem without DK's?
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06-22-2006, 11:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-22-2006, 11:11 AM by Rinnhart.)
His whole night is ruined?
"AND THEN THE PALADIN TOOK MY EYES!"
Forever oppressed by the GOLs.
Grom Hellscream: [Orcish] kek
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Quote:Newish casual player loggs in for his 1hr a day of warcraft. Farms a bunch of raptor feathers. Goes to turn them in at the XR. Can't find the quest giver because sombody just gave him the remote backstab. His whole night is ruined.
Can you fix this problem without DK's?
Personally, I'd keep the DKs, but stop the civilians spawning guards and have them: Run. Away. The main problem with DKs, in my mind, was that they implemented a disinsentive to kill civilians without removing the necessity of killing them if you're raiding a town. (ie. Kill the civilian or be zerged by the guards he spawns when you're entire raid group has to run past him. And then his wife. And their daughter. And Little Jim. etc.) Remove the guard spawns, make them run away, and DKs should be pretty avoidable and town raids more viable for those that are watching their honor.:)
I hate flags
"Then Honor System came out and I had b*$@& tattoo'd on my forehead and a "kick me" sign taped to my back." - Tiku
Stormscale: Treglies, UD Mage; Treggles, 49 Orc Shaman; Tregor, semi-un-retired Druid.
Terenas (all retired): 60 Druid; 60 Shaman. (Not very creative with my character selection, am I?! 
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Quote:Newish casual player loggs in for his 1hr a day of warcraft. Farms a bunch of raptor feathers. Goes to turn them in at the XR. Can't find the quest giver because sombody just gave him the remote backstab. His whole night is ruined.
Can you fix this problem without DK's?
Give them an insane amount of hitpoints. Raise their level and/or elite-ify them. Make them not attack or cause a player to be attacked by guards. Hell, even make them unattackable like some of the (faction, but not Faction) NPCs already in the game. Make them immune to (or not aggroable by) AoE. Make them run away. There are any number of solutions, some more creative than others, than the world-pvp-killing DKs.
Some effort to actually fortify important towns (either because they're a transport hub like XR, or they're the relatively uncontested next-zone-after-starter-zone towns) would also help. You can run into the crossroads from 75% of its perimeter, and shoot through the walls.
You don't know what you're talking about.
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Quote:His whole night is ruined?
Yeah, if you only have time to do 1-2 quests and you can't complete them because somebody with 45 levels on you is camping the questgiver, your night sucked.
The running away thing is a good idea.
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How about have immediate respawn times for civilians? That stopped me in the beta when I invaded Undercity as a night elf and "took over" the Apothecarium for a bit. I figued out that the apothecarium both upstairs and downstairs was free of guards, so I thought I could claim the area as "my domain." But when I killed the trainers and vendors, they all popped back alive again immediately. Immediate respawns plus an adequate guard system should be enough to prevent someone from griefing by camping NPC's indefinitely.
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Quote:Newish casual player loggs in for his 1hr a day of warcraft. Farms a bunch of raptor feathers. Goes to turn them in at the XR. Can't find the quest giver because sombody just gave him the remote backstab. His whole night is ruined.
Can you fix this problem without DK's?
Yeah.
You can prevent quest-giving NPCs from being killed.
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
The original Heavy Metal Cowâ¢. USDA inspected, FDA approved.
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Quote:You can prevent quest-giving NPCs from being killed.
So the righteous armys of Stormwind assult the crossroads, annhilating all opposition and conquering everything.... except the locals keep wandering in and out, going about their normal business while being /taunted and /spat on?
On the plus side for world PvP - invasion sites have seen some very sharp nasty battles. Sometimes an uneasy truce forms, but it only takes one chain lightning to fix that....
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So long as they divide the clusters according to the server types, I'm amiable to this concept. Different servers encourage different playstyles and the last thing I want to see are people who are from pure PvP servers being added to my team when I'm from an RP-PVP server.
World PvP? Does that mean that one side can actually win ownership of contested territory? Huh. I don't know what to make of this.
...I want the honor system redone in Battlegrounds. Or just a way to deal with honor farming. Honestly, the reason lots of players hate PUG's is because people don't know how to win or would rather get honor from killing the enemies rather than doing the objectives. This leads to horribly long matches where people are like "Oh, well...we're gonna lose so let's turtle and get as many kills as we can for honor." That and the grinding system encourages people to join the BGs and park their character in a corner to gain honor rather than contribute.
-Grim-
Kwansu, dudes! - A whole bunch of Patu San citizens.
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Quote:...I want the honor system redone in Battlegrounds. Or just a way to deal with honor farming. Honestly, the reason lots of players hate PUG's is because people don't know how to win or would rather get honor from killing the enemies rather than doing the objectives. This leads to horribly long matches where people are like "Oh, well...we're gonna lose so let's turtle and get as many kills as we can for honor." That and the grinding system encourages people to join the BGs and park their character in a corner to gain honor rather than contribute.
-Grim-
But that's not how the system works. After 5 kills of a specific person in a day, you no longer receive honor for killing that person, so grinding kills doesn't work. Our grinders on our server actively try to make matches as quick as possible, because more matches is better for honor than more kills is. Maybe the PuGites don't realize this, but they only hurt the honor grind by extending matches (in fact, I have stalled the horde grinders to the point where they just afk out because 15 minutes is less than the time it would take them to get back into the queue).
Turtling is only a stall technique to stop the other side from getting back into the queues, so it's always in the best interest of anyone honor farming to just get it over fast.
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Quote:(in fact, I have stalled the horde grinders to the point where they just afk out because 15 minutes is less than the time it would take them to get back into the queue).
I have been in a match where an alliance team did this. The horde honor grinding teams always AFK out of tough matches anyway, so horde PUGs are usually up against organized teams of well geared toons. In this particular case it was one of the furthest along alliance raiding guilds and a horde honor grinding team had AFK'd out, so any singles would end up in this particular match.
They were incredibly well geared and played well together as a team. They would take a flag and just sit in midfield as an entire group of 10, cross healing and such, so you couldn't actually kill anyone (let alone the MT geared warrior who had the flag). After I realized their 'strategy' I AFKed for the only time ever that I haven't done so to go do something else or logout. That kind of behavior is very 'unsportsmanlike' if nothing else. If you can beat us, just do it. Don't sit midfield for 45 minutes just to be jerks (and they sat there for at least that long as people cycled in and out of that WSG match, coming out and telling everyone else not to go into WSG 5 or whatever it was.)
Stall tactics are one thing, but purposefully wasting everyone's time is quite another.
For those on Terenas this was <Horadrim>. This was a while ago, before the deserter debuff.
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
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In my case, it wasn't malice -- it was that I was able to stop their attempts to get our flag so many times, or to get it to their base, that they eventually gave up. I later got props on doing it. The secret was using wound poison, because they relied heavily on healing -- 5 debuffs of that, and healing was not the issue on the flag carrier, swap back to my real weapon and kill away before the wound poison wore off. However, I couldn't get the offense on my side to get their flag at all, so the game ended up stalled. Le sigh. Ended up not even bothering after trying to get someone else to get the flag, and just went after it myself -- and now we had no defense/get the flag back, and rogues are terrible flag runners without some aid.
Far as I can tell, they just stayed in midfield and tried to face an BWL/AQ40-equipped horde team toe to toe..
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There is hope.
This is seriously the biggest reason I stopped PvPing (well I'm doing the arena until I get the hunter twink bracers).
If done right, it will eliminate /AFK... because if you are an elite team you will draw another elite team when you requeue. It will also give you a sense of progress. If you are a medium good player and decide to pug a match after raiding, you woln't get stuck with a bunch of people who are still killing gnoles thinking they have runecloth.
Quote:...I want the honor system redone in Battlegrounds. Or just a way to deal with honor farming. Honestly, the reason lots of players hate PUG's is because people don't know how to win or would rather get honor from killing the enemies rather than doing the objectives. This leads to horribly long matches where people are like "Oh, well...we're gonna lose so let's turtle and get as many kills as we can for honor." That and the grinding system encourages people to join the BGs and park their character in a corner to gain honor rather than contribute.
If people are parking their character, they are not getting honor. Unless you are letting them stay in the raid. You may be dealing with turnip heads who don't know about the diminishing returns on honor, or maybe killing people is their way of trying.
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I play on mostly low level PUGs, which is probably why I get people more interested in scoring than capping. The few PUGs I did play in that were organized had the match ending in as quick as fifteen minutes 10v10 and this was without mounts.
Last night I played I queued up for 20-29 WSG and ended up with a paladin, a rogue, and three priests with my priest rounding it out. Six alliance, ten horde. They scored once and then decided to camp our graveyard for respawns. We told people to get in using the Global LFG and eventually won 3-1, 10v10. The Horde could've easily won, but they seemed far too intent on killing rather than scoring.
Kwansu, dudes! - A whole bunch of Patu San citizens.
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Quote:match after raiding, you woln't get stuck with a bunch of people who are still killing gnoles thinking they have runecloth.
I demand details if there are any.
"AND THEN THE PALADIN TOOK MY EYES!"
Forever oppressed by the GOLs.
Grom Hellscream: [Orcish] kek
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