Sabramage's Respec for 1.11

[Sabra]

ClickyClick

I would really like input on this 32 Arcane 19 Fire Build I came up with. It's a very personal build that's based on my playstyle, the spells I use most and what is important to me.

For those of you who don't know Sabramage (LaMage, as I call her) she is a capped, raiding character with very nice gear. For those of you who don't know me as a player, I am not a damage hog. That is not nearly as important to me as managing aggro. LaMage will continue to solo occasionally and 5 man whenever she can, but primarily she is a raider now.

Two premises for this build:

1) I like mana! BUT I won't pay the freight for the trinket from the Darkmoon Faire. I figure that between Master of Elements, Arcane Mind and Arcane Meditation, I would be a happy camper in that regard.

2) This build plays into two of the three fire skills I use most; fireball and fire blast. I use scorch extensively and planned to fully improve it, but I've seen feedback from the PTS that sounds like Scorch's function isn't confirming what Billard described. I would seriously love more input on this and would redo this spec, if, in fact, people are seeing heightened vulnerablilty to fire with stacking, as descibed.

There are so few fire-specced mages who raid that it's hard to get input. I think that all of us know that numbers are wonderful indicators, but they don't take into account what you want and don't want. A lot of what looks good on paper isn't born out once you start playing.

So fire away;)I look forward to suggestions.

[The Gnu]

I've yet to see a raid encounter where improved arcane missiles had made any substantial difference, and in PvP losing casting time by someone hitting you is generally your queue to move.

With the rest of your current build remaining as it is, I'd move two points to arcane focus (which helps a great deal in encounters where you use arcane missiles) and put three points in Arcane Instability. (more crits, thus more mana returned through master of elements:))

Personally I'm not too fond of improved fire blast either, but that might be more related to playstyle than anything else. I'd probably move points to Burning Soul and/or Incinerate.

[MongoJerry]

First of all, our guild's best mage in terms of dps is a fire mage. People who think fire mages aren't good for raiding are living in the Molten Core and partially BWL dark ages and don't see that things are changing rapidly. I and a lot of my guildmates are seeing the writing on the wall for ice mages in terms of how they've been able to skip out on the massive mob resist fights that fire mages have experienced. In Naxxramas, there will be many frost fights, and mobs themselves are going to have a lot of frost resistance. Ice mages who don't collect -resistance and +hit% gear are going to be in for a shock. This is especially true since ice spells tend to be binary -- i.e. there are no partial resists. You either hit fully or you cause zero damage.

Back to your build, I can't really give you specific directions on your build, because I haven't played a mage enough. I can say, however, that all of our mages, and especially our two resident fire mages, were jumping for joy over how much damage they could dish out on the test server without pulling aggro. We play Horde, so we don't have the benefit of Blessing of Salvation, so the experience of being able to go nearly full out and not pull aggro was an incredible experience for them. (The Tranquil Air totem is not very practical for a variety of reasons). Basically, Burning Soul and Frost Channeling eliminated the need to spend points boosting arcane missles. The reason people used Arcane Missles at all in the past was how aggro efficient it was, but if you can get nearly the same aggro efficiency using your more damaging and mana efficient fire and frost spells, why use arcane missles at all?

I'll try to find out our fire mages' intended specs to give you an more specific and knowledgeable suggestion of what to do, but I believe they plan to spend more points than you have in the fire tree and less in the arcane tree. One thing you might consider is that sacrificing some of your mana pool in order to get more damage might be helpful. For example, if instead of getting 10% more mana, you get 10% more damage, you'll still deal the same amount of damage after expending one mana bar, but you'll kill your target faster. Plus, your potions and mana gems will get an effective boost in their power, because you can deal more damage for the mana that they give you. Plus, in an aggro limited fight, if you can deal your damage faster, then you can stop and regen mana for a longer period of time and still ride that ever present aggro line.

[The Gnu]

Indeed, the days of fire being useless for PvE are long gone. Frost mages might be twice as mana efficient as fire mages (depending on talent spec, of course) but as long as you keep yourself afloat fire offers some brilliant dps. Even more so with the new Burning Soul talent. :)

For a reference, this is probably how I'm going to spec after the patch:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?obxEcofqZxghz0c

It's a build with high damage, good threat reduction and low to moderate mana efficiency. It will still have me struggling to stay afloat with mana in long intensive fights like C'Thun, but that struggle, aside with aggro management, is what makes me love playing a mage.:)

[MongoJerry]

Here's my guild's resident fire mage guru's PvE-to-the-max spec, straight from Vendetta himself:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?kf0VZxgGzfcutbh

Elemental Precision, Improved Scorch, and Burning Soul are must have for raiding for him.

[oldmandennis]

Yeah, no offense, but that seems like a rather spastic build to me. Granted, I'm not a mage, but not going deep in any tree?

It seems like you are taking a lot of talents that don't help your stated focus (fire raid damage) and skipping some really attractive ones that would.

And weather or not you are a Damage meter whore, there are a lot of places where the ability to put out a burst of damage in short time comes in real handy. The big example at the moment is huhu, but there are pleanty more out there, and probably even more to come.

[Magicbag]

I've always had a mage. 53 in beta, 60 PvP and 60 PvE. This doesn't make me an expert, but I've tried a lot of specs. I was very resistant to frost initially and chose a heavy arcane spec. When we needed mage DPS and stamina on Ragnaros I respecced to frost. I can't say I don't love the efficiency that comes from frost, but without a lot of to hit gear, the resists are terrible. Stupid binary spells.

For Fire based PvP endgame, I'd choose a spec like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent/?kf0EZxgMzfcut0h

you can go with counterspell over the pyro package if you prefer. Much of the spec's power assumes limited PvP and high end raid instances. However, fire mages can still be very effective in MC and BWL.

If you prefer heavy acrane with a splash of fire (which can be a very viable build) I think you're really gimping your damage output by not finding 4 points in the arcane tree for arcane power and arcane instability.
-MB

[Quark]

Is Arcane Meditation still busted when used in conjunction with Mage Armor? That bug makes Arcane Meditation practically useless in raid situations.

As for the rest ... I can't really say. It's different from what I'd go, but that's not always a bad thing:whistling:
One thing to note: A bunch of us have been trying to balance resists and dps gear for awhile. Once you get "enough" resists, keep your dps as high as possible. If you do go Magic Absorbtion, it does increase the value of your resist gear.

[Sabra]

Refining to keep mana as high as I can, keep the crits coming, but add more to threat reduction.

ByeBye Arcane Missles

GG, your views were inspirational and so creative! When we used to play on Squad Goofball, I was mainly invested in Fire, but I finally gave in to chronic thirst and went 30 Arcane. I feel I have to stay with that, despite the fact that I'd love to pack the whallop that some of you builds would have handed to me.

MJ, I want to thank you and Vendetta so much for sharing his ideas. Just tremendously generous of you both.

To all of you who shared your input, including those of you who did so via PM and at CA, WoW!!! If I wasn't sure where I was heading with this respec before, I'm even more confused now!;)

Seriously, you gave me tons to think about and I appreciate it. What you see above is the outcome. Believe me it's STILL open to discussion! Keep those cards and letters coming please.

[Rinnhart]

Yeah, no offense, but that seems like a rather spastic build to me. Granted, I'm not a mage, but not going deep in any tree?

It seems like you are taking a lot of talents that don't help your stated focus (fire raid damage) and skipping some really attractive ones that would.

And weather or not you are a Damage meter whore, there are a lot of places where the ability to put out a burst of damage in short time comes in real handy. The big example at the moment is huhu, but there are pleanty more out there, and probably even more to come.

31 in Fire is about as deep into a tree as you can get. From Arcane, he wants Arcane Concentration for Clearcasts, and from frost he picks up two very, very nice talents.

Not the build I'd go with, but my mage isn't for raiding.

[oldmandennis]

31 in Fire is about as deep into a tree as you can get. From Arcane, he wants Arcane Concentration for Clearcasts, and from frost he picks up two very, very nice talents.

Not the build I'd go with, but my mage isn't for raiding.

I made that post before the second build was posted. I was refering to the first build, that goes 32/19/0 without getting AP.

[LochnarITB]

ByeBye Arcane Missles

I really didn't look at the rest of the build, but there is no way I would go that far in arcane without finding a point for arcane power. I'd take a point from master of elements for it.

I am really hating what they are doing with the mage trees. With them, and the way Naxx sounds unkind to frost, I am, at the very least, going to have a hard time justifying the ten points beyond ice block to get to my beloved ice barrier. I can't see Lochnar remaining as frost-centric as he has been his entire life. :angry:

[Magicbag]

I've gotta check in with Loch on this one. I like your new build, it's a solid arcane/fire (which is near and dear to me), but no way you can stay away from burst DPS (which turns into constant DPS on long instance runs) with Arcane Power. Find a point, and make it happen. I'm assuming your style justifies 3/3 Arcane explosion, so I'll leave the choice where you find that 1 point up to you. I'd take one from improved AE if it were me though.
-MB

[Treesh]

I can't see Lochnar remaining as frost-centric as he has been his entire life. :angry:

This is a damned tragedy in my opinion. Lochnar wouldn't be Lochnar without being frosty! *hugs Lochnar*

[MongoJerry]

I am really hating what they are doing with the mage trees. With them, and the way Naxx sounds unkind to frost, I am, at the very least, going to have a hard time justifying the ten points beyond ice block to get to my beloved ice barrier. I can't see Lochnar remaining as frost-centric as he has been his entire life. :angry:

Well, I don't want to be extreme in any direction. There's a nature wing (spider wing), shadow wing (death knight wing), and I'm not sure about the other wings, but it's all probably a mix. The main thing is that you should definitely make sure to get spell penetration gear like -target resistance to spells and +hit% with spells so that those mobs who do have lots of frost resistance and those who are level 63 (maybe higher?) don't resist your spells so much. The set armor in AQ40 is a good example. Also, Ossirian drops some bracers that have -10 to target's spell resistance, as another example. It's the frost mages who don't plan ahead and walk into Naxxramas with all +damage gear, having spurned all that spell penetration gear because "they don't need it," who are going to be in for quite a shock.

[oldmandennis]

I am really hating what they are doing with the mage trees. With them, and the way Naxx sounds unkind to frost, I am, at the very least, going to have a hard time justifying the ten points beyond ice block to get to my beloved ice barrier. I can't see Lochnar remaining as frost-centric as he has been his entire life. :angry:

I haven't read all the accounts or been in Nax myself, but it definatly sounds like it will be a mix. Probably the only really heavy frost encounters will be Saph and Kel.

OT, but does anybody know how to get to Kel? Do you have to clear all wings each week? My personal vote would be each wingboss drops a doodad, and if you have all 4 you can open the door to Kel. That way you could spread your clears out over weeks if you needed to.

I'm not a mage, but I don't see what there is to hate about the review? If you are heavy frost, don't you wake up on patch day stronger then the day before? At least now a fire/FROST build is supposedly vialble, if you are really worried about what happens at Kel.

[MongoJerry]

OT, but does anybody know how to get to Kel? Do you have to clear all wings each week? My personal vote would be each wingboss drops a doodad, and if you have all 4 you can open the door to Kel. That way you could spread your clears out over weeks if you needed to.

I haven't read what exactly is needed, but I assume that like Ragnaros, you have to clear all the bosses in all the wings to summon him. However, except for the deathknight wing, there seems to be thankfully only a small number of trash mobs in between each boss, so it shouldn't be too bad.

[teske]

I haven't read what exactly is needed, but I assume that like Ragnaros, you have to clear all the bosses in all the wings to summon him. However, except for the deathknight wing, there seems to be thankfully only a small number of trash mobs in between each boss, so it shouldn't be too bad.

From what I read, after clearing one wing you can reach the other wing endbosses without killing the other bosses in the other wings. After killing each wing endboss you have to kill Sapphirion before wiping at Kel'Thuzad.

[The Gnu]

I am really hating what they are doing with the mage trees. With them, and the way Naxx sounds unkind to frost, I am, at the very least, going to have a hard time justifying the ten points beyond ice block to get to my beloved ice barrier. I can't see Lochnar remaining as frost-centric as he has been his entire life. :angry:

I haven't tried these encounters myself, but there are several bosses in AQ that require nature resistance, but don't have any resistance to nature themselves. I'm sure I've read a blue post hinting of the same relationship regarding frost damage and resistance in Naxxramas.

[Sabra]

I really didn't look at the rest of the build, but there is no way I would go that far in arcane without finding a point for arcane power. I'd take a point from master of elements for it.

I am really hating what they are doing with the mage trees. With them, and the way Naxx sounds unkind to frost, I am, at the very least, going to have a hard time justifying the ten points beyond ice block to get to my beloved ice barrier. I can't see Lochnar remaining as frost-centric as he has been his entire life. :angry:

My two gold says, don't do that Loch. You may struggle for awhile, as I have in MC and parts of BWL, but it will all come around. We've been through the portion of this game ---so far---where frost ruled. It will come back. Stay true to your build.

Let Lochnar be frost, or the heavens fall. :wub: