Quick shadow priest question

[oldmandennis]

Can you cast discipline spells like PW:S while in shadow form?

If no, how does a shadow priest solo? When I solo with my priest (lvl 34) I liberally use PW:S to avoid losing casting time. It seems to me like losing casting time would more then make up for the 15% bonus to damage. Or should I just skip shadow form and put the points in discipline?

[teske]

Can you cast discipline spells like PW:S while in shadow form?

Qucik answer: Read the spell description...

[vor_lord]

Can you cast discipline spells like PW:S while in shadow form?

Yes. This includes PWS and Dispel Magic.

[oldmandennis]

Qucik answer: Read the spell description...

Quick rebuttal to smart aleck remark

School=Holy Line=Discipline

Thanks, var.

[MongoJerry]

Can you cast discipline spells like PW:S while in shadow form?

If no, how does a shadow priest solo? When I solo with my priest (lvl 34) I liberally use PW:S to avoid losing casting time. It seems to me like losing casting time would more then make up for the 15% bonus to damage. Or should I just skip shadow form and put the points in discipline?

Yes, you can cast Discipline spells like PW:Shield, Dispell Magic, and Mana Burn. You can't cure diseases or resurrect other players, though, since those are holy spells.

[Klaus]

Spells you'll find shut out are all in the "Holy" tab of your spell book.

Resurrection, Smite, Holy Fire, all heals, Cure/Abolish Disease. This is more or less it (I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting, but these are the ones that come to mind first).

Shield, Dispell, Mana burn, Inner Focus, Fortitude, Shadow Protect are all available (with talent if required, of course). I would add Power Infusion to the list, but since you can't (currently) get both Power Infusion and Shadowform at the same time. :)

[castille]

I would add Power Infusion to the list, but since you can't (currently) get both Power Infusion and Shadowform at the same time.

I would be a tiny God if I could have PI and Shadowform -to myself-.

Thankfully, there's a PI priest who will toss me a PI now and then in BWL.

Nothing more fun than having ZHC come back from cooldown and seeing [Power Infusion] pop up over my head >.>

[Thecla]

Shadowform is great and IMO any shadow priest should get it (though what the other discipline options are for priests these days I cannot say -- I dare say they are great too).

As others said, you can indeed cast PW:S as a shadow priest, but IMHO it's rarely worth the mana to use it while soloing (except if things have gone wrong and you're fleeing for your life). Mind blast, SW:P, vampiric embrace, mind flay, mind flay, maybe another mindblast if you get bored with the mind flays, and some wanding at the end is about all you need for almost anything. Mana burn (or later silence) is also nice against the odd caster.

Vampiric embrace pretty much removes the need for a shadow-form priest to heal against normal monsters, though against elites even a shadow priest can be better off dropping out of shadow-form to allow him/her to heal over an extended battle.

[oldmandennis]

How do you handle your mind flay getting stuttered?

[Thecla]

How do you handle your mind flay getting stuttered?

Basically, ignore it. Actually, interrupts on mind blast are more annoying than interrupts on mind flay, but even mind blast works ok in combat. The limiting factor on how fast you can kill things isn't spell interrupts or health, it's mana consumption, which is why PW:S is not (IMHO) the most efficient way to go, and why shadowform really helps.

p.s. This is the third time I posted this reply, so I hope it's the charm.:)

[oldmandennis]

/bump because there was probably supposed to be an answer there.

[LochnarITB]

This seems like a good thread for this.

I'm working on a young (27? 28?) shadow priest and I'm having a hard time finding a casting rhythm I like with him. When you folks are grinding mobs, what is your "in your sleep" casting routine, pull to kill? What I am currently doing doesn't matter as I am trying to see what others do so I can bend and merge them to something I can work with.

[LavCat]

This seems like a good thread for this.

I'm working on a young (27? 28?) shadow priest and I'm having a hard time finding a casting rhythm I like with him. When you folks are grinding mobs, what is your "in your sleep" casting routine, pull to kill? What I am currently doing doesn't matter as I am trying to see what others do so I can bend and merge them to something I can work with.

For a normal melee mob at the furthest range: mind blast, shadow word pain, mind flay, shield, mind blast, mind flay, mind blast, mind flay...

For a melee mob that is closer, mind flay before shadow word pain.

For a difficult caster: mind blast, shadow word pain, silence, mind flay, mind blast, mind flay, mind blast...

For most casters and for those that cannot be silenced, just substitute vampiric embrace for silence.

In grinding for Timbermaw rep Baguette can often (but not always) get the shaman before any totems are dropped. Baguette is only 31 shadow however. This method also allowed Baguette to tank and out cast Princess Tempestra (with a holy priest healing, a hunter adding DPS, and a mage and hunter pet on the adds).

For tagging mobs that are being farmed: open with shadow word pain or holy nova. If a mob can be feared and you are not worried about adds, fear then mind flay and mind blast, being sure shadow word pain is up.

If you are having a problem with rhythm, most likely you do not have improved mind blast.

[MongoJerry]

Basically, ignore it. Actually, interrupts on mind blast are more annoying than interrupts on mind flay, but even mind blast works ok in combat. The limiting factor on how fast you can kill things isn't spell interrupts or health, it's mana consumption, which is why PW:S is not (IMHO) the most efficient way to go, and why shadowform really helps.

It depends on how quickly the mob can be taken down, of course, but when I was shadow, I liked to preshield myself to prevent the mind flay from getting stuttered. When you lose time on your channeling, it's effectively like losing mana and stuttering on the mind blast means the killing speed is going slower (PvP gloves help this). If the mobs are ones that die quickly, I can sometimes kill two mobs before the PW:Shield expires, and I don't have to use vamp embrace in these cases, since the shield provides all the healing I need. With tougher mobs, vamp embrace takes a bigger role, but I still hate stuttering, so again I like PW:Shield in many cases. For tougher mobs, I also usually pull them far back and Psychic Scream them when they get close in order to avoid getting hit or stuttered by them.

[Klaus]

Basically, ignore it. Actually, interrupts on mind blast are more annoying than interrupts on mind flay, but even mind blast works ok in combat. The limiting factor on how fast you can kill things isn't spell interrupts or health, it's mana consumption, which is why PW:S is not (IMHO) the most efficient way to go, and why shadowform really helps.

For the longest time while soloing, my most effective routine for killing most mobs was:

Mind blast from max range
run backwards away from the mob while casting SW pain
Keep running backwards until the mob comes into flay range - immediately stop and flay.
(for slow mobs, you can usually get 2/3rds of a second flay in before they reach you)
Mind blast again
wand until dead. - I always made sure I had a good wand.

With 3 points in improved mind blast, the second mind blast will be ready about a half second after the first flay is finished, so you have very little wasted "standing around waiting for cooldown" time.

I very rarely bothered to shield. I usually only used it for elites (preshield and wait for mana to regen), mobs with high attack speeds (makes it really painful to get the second MB off) or in emergency situations. For mobs with slower attack speeds, I would wait for them to hit me and then start a flay. I could frequently get 2 of the 3 ticks in before they hit me again. If they're really* slow (PvP warriors with big slow swords, for example) you can actually get a full flay in between each weapon hit (*whack* flay.... *whack* flay...)

I saved VE mostly for nasty elite mobs or multi-pulls. For a regular mob, it wasn't usually worth the casting time (screws up the rythym).

Later I got the martyrdom and focused casting (now gone) talents. I would use FC about every other fight to get 2 flays in in place of the second MB. Sigh. I miss FC. But martyrdom is still very nice - you do your normal thing, and when you get critted, you whack flay.

[Kevin]

This seems like a good thread for this.

I'm working on a young (27? 28?) shadow priest and I'm having a hard time finding a casting rhythm I like with him. When you folks are grinding mobs, what is your "in your sleep" casting routine, pull to kill? What I am currently doing doesn't matter as I am trying to see what others do so I can bend and merge them to something I can work with.

My shadow priest is only L38 so I don't have shadow form yet either. Sure a lot of the time he is paired with a warrior, but due to the tons of warrior only quests, I've had to solo about a level and half just to keep up in exp with the warrior. :)

After the 1.10 patch since I don't have shadow from I open with Holy Fire as it is a better damage/mana ratio then mind blast. I then SW:P as the mob is coming in, it is then usually in flay range so I flay it which will get the whole flay off, then I mind blast, which will sometimes leave me dealing with a stutter but won't waste mana like a stuttered flay will and since pain is still ticking I actually make the pain more efficient that way too. If the mob is still alive at that point, depending on health I'll just wand it down or I'll deal with a stuttered flay, or I'll fear if there is room and then flay.

If I know the mob will hurt me, I'll get the VE and the SW:P up after the holy fire and before the first flay. I'll back-out or strafe out to keep distance while doing this to help insure that I get the whole flay going, much like after the 2 or 3 frostbolts with my frost mage I start to strafe or back while casting the fireblast and frost nova to insure they don't have a chance to hit me as I'm staying at range.

Some casters I won't bother to silence as a lot of them have a 1.5 or 2 second cast time and with the missile in air time I can get most of a flay off or a mind blast off unstuttered and while I'll take one or two more hits than I would have if I had silenced them I get high mana efficiency and a renew or a VE on the next mob will take care of it.

Now keep in mind this will all change in two levels when I get shadow from and have the extra mana cost that form switching adds if I want to heal, and I'll lose the ability to holy fire pull in shadow form as well. But of course with shadow from mind blast will have a better damage to mana ratio than holy fire. But like Mongo I worry more about mana efficiency since I hate drinking if I can help it. So I use wands on mobs that are less than 20% life (they are likely about to run and not hurt me anyway with a SW:P ticking and the wand hitting them) so that I can start the regen cycle earlier. I hate stutters on flay more than mind blast becuase the longer time in combat is usually less annoying than knowing I'm going to run out of mana faster.

But since I figured some of these 60's may have forgotten what it was like without shadow form that I would chime in. :) But they covered it for after shadowform. :)

I will say again though, don't be afraid of fear. Get practice in when you are at high life and mana so you can get a better feel for how far mobs will run, but it's a great combat tool for offense too. Especially since you'll be flaying them right away after they go and slowing them down. The worst part for me is when they run through me and I'm not fast on turning and getting the spell off and they get out of range to hit again. But eh. SW:P is still ticking and I'm not getting hurt and I'll get to flay them a couple of times on the way back in.:)

[TheDragoon]

If you do not have shadowform, yet, I would suggest using Holy Fire to pull with, instead of Mind Blast. It does comparable damage with the DoT component, but it is more mana efficient (though a longer cast time). Once you get shadowform, this doesn't work anymore. :)

My normal routine for taking things out, pre-shadowform, is to open with holy fire, then cast shadow word: pain and strafe backward until the cooldown is over. Then I mind flay and follow up with mind blast. Then I continue to wand until the target dies. At level 30ish, this works great and I can grind continuously on most things.

Sometimes things will be a bit tougher (more life) and I will start off by pre-shielding myself, then I go holy fire, SW:Pain, mind flay, mind flay, mind blast, mind flay, wand. This is a bit more mana-intensive, so if you don't have good spirit gear, you might not regenerate it all before you can pull the next mob (if you're chain pulling).

Keep in mind that all of this assumes that you don't have shadow reach (which I do not). If I had that talent, I would stick an extra mind flay in before the mind blast to end with (and sometimes not use mind blast, at all) because the mob would not reach me until after the second mind flay was done ticking.

The best thing that a shadow priest can do is get a good wand. I highly suggest doing the BFD questline for the 29 DPS wand, ASAP. This will significantly boost your damage output while you regenerate mana at the end of each battle. :)

[Thecla]

I agree with pretty much everything you say.

Keep running backwards until the mob comes into flay range - immediately stop and flay.

Yes, with the slowing effect of mind flay, not to mention the chance of a stun going off, it works really well to hit mobs with it as soon as you can (one more reason to max the shadow reach talent).

I very rarely bothered to shield. I usually only used it for elites (preshield and wait for mana to regen), mobs with high attack speeds (makes it really painful to get the second MB off) or in emergency situations.

I never bothered to shield as a routine matter past clvl 40. One other situation, apart from the ones you mentioned, when PW:S does help is for double pulls or adds; hopefully you can stay shielded while you take out the first mob, though psychic scream is also a really teriffic spell for soloing.

At clvl 60, a lvl 10 PW:S is 500 mana and a lvl 6 mindflay is nominally 205 mana (though I'm pretty sure mine used less -- more like 165 -- not sure why). At lvl 36, it's nominally 250 mana for a lvl 6 PW:S and 100 mana for a lvl 3 mindflay, so you have to lose a lot of mana casting mind flay before the PW:S becomes worthwhile.

I saved VE mostly for nasty elite mobs or multi-pulls. For a regular mob, it wasn't usually worth the casting time (screws up the rythym).

Well there are easier regular mobs and harder regular mobs. It does screw up the rythym a bit if you want to follow your mind blast with PW:S and VE and mind flay before the mob reaches you, so it depends. Against easy mobs, you might not need VE at all, or you might throw one in mid-combat, perhaps while waiting for mind blast, or you might choose to throw one in at the start agaianst an easy mob if your health is depleted from a previous fight. At a cost of 40 mana for free health recovery, VE is an absolute bargin, and there is no reason not to use it unless you are never taking significant damage.

[Snowy]

For elite mobs, I always pre-shield.. no sense in not having the extra mitigation. Then my order will go much like this:

Mind Blast, SW:P, VE, Mind Flay until shield drops, then fear if in an open area, and mind blast, then mind flay as the mob comes back in. If in tight corners, then I'll mind blast/wand until I get crit (I have martyrdom), then start up with the flays again.

Usually I never am fighting in tight corners though, I always arrange it so I have room to work. Fear is a big weapon in your arsenal - it can be used offensively, not just defensively.