Terenas Friday 4/14

[vor_lord]

So this will be Conc's last week here before his vacation. One option for Friday is UBRS -- helps a lot with a good warrior around. Discuss other desires here.

I'd like to get a solid group and try for the 45 minute baron run. Probably take the first one or two and not use expensive consumables -- depending on how close we are can decide whether or not to go for it.

Whether or not we try practicing 45 minute baron runs or not on Friday, it might be interesting to have this thread be where we plan our strategy for doing so. I'd like to try it -- the drops I want are off mobs we'll be killing anyway and it sounds really fun. I really wish we could get Conc the belt of Valor before then so he has the quest--I really think having a warrior will be a must at our gear level.

My understanding is that the following characters have the 45 minute baron run quest:

Necrali
Fazuul
Octord
Swirlytracks
Yuri (actually he may not have it but has all the pieces)

Who else needs to be added to the list?

Strategy ideas? I know there is a thread elsewhere about this and it has good information (we've already tried the route) but this thread can be where we discuss specifically for Terenas.

I like the strategy of two healers alternating. One complication to strat is that in a 5 man the priest is generally shackling so drinking before the tank needs a heal is not as easy to accomplish.

Let's consider the following group (based mostly on who is ready):
Necrali
Fazuul
Conc
Yuri (Best chance for actually killing the baron)
Octord or Swirlytracks

As far as between the last two... some considerations. I know the timer stops once you engage the Baron, but if you die -- can you try again with a soulstone and complete the quest? If so, the soulstone would be extremely nice.

Hunter has very sustainable DPS and an extra offtank, warlock has very high DPS these days as well as good supplementary AoE. Having swirlywar around to pull those nasty patrols would be nice, but can be done with moonfire/faerie fire instead.

Anyway, have Faz and Necrali alternate fights who is healing. The other does "low mana DPS". I'll be shackling pretty much every fight so drinking will be tough to come by. I can do some decent DPS now but it is a good way to run out of mana. Never stop pulling.


Another option -- the AoE flash bang method. Druid and warrior lock down elites, warlock and mage AoE, priest heals. This method would necessitate drinking, but assuming our margin of error isn't too bad (i.e. no deaths) it might actually be faster.

Thoughts?

[Concillian]

This is largely a discussion of the 45 minute run tactics. I will show up as usual and go where I am needed.

Swirly's warrior also has the first 3 peices, so he should be up to the 45 minute baron run by Friday.

-------------Tanking----------------
For a protection warrior the most efficient route will be the CC/shackle method for sure.

For my build, which is arms, there is a different option that I'm not sure is faster or slower. The basic idea is:
- someone with quick aggro build (hunter pet, shaman with earth shock, something like that) grabs ahold of the the first FF mob.
- 2H warrior charges and uses Sweeping strikes and WW and Cleave to hold the rest of the pull off the healers, damaging all of them in the meantime.
- after first FF target is down, either switch to AoE or FF the rest, probably FF.

This will certainly down things faster, but the question is whether the extra healing load is worth the extra drinking time. It should allow for a DOT or two on the non-FF targets as well as multi-shot usage that would normally break CCs.

advantage: the first guy probably doesn't need to be healed at all, can use mage bread to regain health while others are drinking.
dis-advantage: warrior will need a lot more healing with up to 2 elites on him and likely in berserker stance a fair amount.

Not sure what would be best. I did the run with Necrali using a 2H weap, then with GG and Treesh using a dagger and shield. The shield run definitely felt more controlled. It was REALLY nice having a hunter pulling. We're all more used to the 1H + shield method, so that may be best just for that reason. I was trying out some different things in the 2H run, and that certainly contributed to some of the wonkiness. Basically I had to do some of the same things I do with 1H + shield to hold aggro of the #1 target even with a 2hander. So there isn't really an advantage to 2H tanking unless the #1 target can be controlled by someone else or left to roam free.

But the 2H tanking is an interesting concept. If something with snap aggro can hold the first mob well enough people can unload quicker, then switch to something already at like 70-80% life... seems like it would save time, but don't know if it would be enough to make up for the extra drinking.

Last option would be 3 tanking and AoE. This might be doable, in dagger and sheild, I'm not positive I could hold 2 while fazuul or pet held the other, but I probably could. I think this would only be plausible in the event of 2 primary AoE classes (warlock + mage) This would be an insteresting thing to try. It's definitely possible for 2 pulls, but also of even more questionable utility there, as that's a lot of mana usage for just 2 mobs.

------------MAPS---------------

There are multiple maps I've seen:

Original by Tresjin:
https://host99n.ipowerweb.com/~bodyacom/...letMap.jpg

Revised Tresjin:
http://www.faultymoose.com/gauntlet.jpg

Another Map showing similar route to the revised map:
http://wow.luminousdreams.com/45-min-baron.jpg

They seem to converge on the Baroness --> Spider --> Maleki route.

-----------Baroness-------------

The biggest dangerous variable in the run is the Baroness, and I believe in taking her out first is necessary just because that's a fight that can go poorly if you get bad MC scenarios.

You can't control who gets MC-ed... or can you? If someone isn't on the hate list, they can't be MC-ed right? I verified in the run last Friday that you can stay out of combat while others engage the baroness. Unfortunately I also backed into a pull we were planning on leaving alone and we wiped as a result, but hey, it was a learning process =).

I have read that Ice Block is available as an instant MC-drop. So we should try having Yuri pull and kite until the first MC. Who has aggro in this fight is largely a non-issue as her damage isn't what causes problems. If Yuri can manage to hold enough aggro without needing healing to get MC-ed first, I think we have a big head-start.

The other option is to let the warrior have the initial MC and be sure he has blown cooldowns (like use bloodrage + intercept to engage, and be sure 30 minute skill and Intimidating shout are both cooling down). At range, a warrior is not dangerous, using intercept to engage gives no way to close on others quickly, and a frost nova can help keep him at range. The disadvantage here, is that you pretty much have to fight at the ziggurat, and that can be a problem.

Obviously cooldown burning is important.

----------- drinking / eating ------------------
Usual habits are to only drink/eat when necessary, but I think on the 45 minute run a better strategy is to LOAD UP on the mage food and water and eat/drink in small bursts.

For example, on Friday, a pull would finish and I would immediately eat while Marn pulled the next mob, When it got close enough I'd either charge or engage. I maybe only got 500 health of healing from the bread, but it's better than using mana for that. If marn needed a drink, I would pull what I could safely, rotating duties back to him when he was ready. It wasn't something we planned, but I think it ended up working well.

If we go in with 100+ water and/or bread per person (depending on the class) we can comfortably take these quick gulps for downtime that would normally not have as much regen. I think the idea is that we're hardly ever FULL of health/mana.

------------- Practice ---------------------

Obviously the largest factor is practice. There were several accidental steps into pulls that we shouldn't have pulled on Friday, we have to practice skipping pulls because they have to be skipped. We have to get used to not being able to step places we can on a normal run.

------------- Baron -----------------------
Shadow resist buff is incredibly nice. I can't imagine making a serious attempt without having the resist buff. We eventually did it with the shaman healing and no druid for even a minor amount of resist, but it was a real challenge. With a shadow resist to cloak enchant I'll be sitting at 47, heroism belt will get me a set bonus with +8. That should amount to 115 with shadow protection, which should be to a pretty significant damage reduction for the Baron, and I only had to sacrifice a few stats (mostly stamina from ring, bow and cloak, but a little strength and armor too)

You have to aggro the Baron before the timer runs out, but if you die, he will execute her (unless the timer isn't done yet). It's basically, if you have his attention, he can't execute her, but if you don't, he will.

[VoiceMan]

It seems that if you wipe, you can pick yourself up via soulstone and continue on. We noticed last week that the timer debuff goes away when you die, but then later on the Baron yelled something else and the debuff came back, with the correct time on it, so I think it's just a matter of getting there fast enough, whether you wipe or not.

I personally think having alternating healersis probably safer than trying to AoE the place. I think if we could preven the AoE-ers from dying in the pulls, it might work, but then again, it would take time for them to drink up for the next pull, so from a speed standpoint, it might not make enough difference to run the risk of loosing your AoE-ers regularly.

It also seems that we've gotten geared up enough to be able to handle two pulls at times. I only know that from having tanked it and botched a couple of pulls and gotten more than wanted, yet the group was able to pull it out. I don't think I'd double pull things on purpose, but perhaps go ahead and pull the next group once we're down to one more target left from our last pull. The part I don't know how to address neatly in this case is assigning CC targets, as the CC classes will still be applying DPS to the last mob of the previous pull, but it may be something to look at.

Aside from that, I will be there Friday ready to go and help out where I'm needed most.

[Klaus]

Xarhud expects to be available Friday night, and will go wherever he is needed. I still need bracers and gloves, so either side of strat is good for me. There are also two pieces of gear I want in LBRS, and I need to do Warlord's Command to start that whole series.

As far as the baron speed runs go, I'm happy to help out even though I don't have the quest, so if you want the shadow priest, just say so. As we discovered thursday of last week, vampiric embrace is really nice while killing the abominations, and not shabby for the rest of the pulls. Plus, I can do shadow protect, fort and shackle if we don't have Necrali in the group. I'm still looking for Maleki's Footwraps, Anastari Heirloom and the Devout Skirt, and I want to finish the quest for the upgraded Argent Dawn trinket, so I have personal motivation to run the place, anyway.

We had good fun last week in the first part of strat live with synchronized shackle-pulls. It was lots of fun for the priests, who rarely get to play with CC.

[vor_lord]

-------------Tanking----------------
Last option would be 3 tanking and AoE.  This might be doable, in dagger and sheild, I'm not positive I could hold 2 while fazuul or pet held the other, but I probably could.  I think this would only be plausible in the event of 2 primary AoE classes (warlock + mage)  This would be an insteresting thing to try.  It's definitely possible for 2 pulls, but also of even more questionable utility there, as that's a lot of mana usage for just 2 mobs.

If you recall we did this for all the pulls prior to the gate, and at I think at least one is a 3 elite pull. It does exhaust mana, but things go down fast. I agree, it isn't worth the mana for 2 mobs.

----------- drinking / eating ------------------
Usual habits are to only drink/eat when necessary, but I think on the 45 minute run a better strategy is to LOAD UP on the mage food and water and eat/drink in small bursts. 

I've always done this when I have a lot of water -- top off during the time between the pull and when I need the first heal. The need to shackle for me is the biggest limiter on that time.

------------- Baron -----------------------
Shadow resist buff is incredibly nice.  I can't imagine making a serious attempt without having the resist buff.  We eventually did it with the shaman healing and no druid for even a minor amount of resist, but it was a real challenge.  With a shadow resist to cloak enchant I'll be sitting at 47, heroism belt will get me a set bonus with +8.  That should amount to 115 with shadow protection, which should be to a pretty significant damage reduction for the Baron, and I only had to sacrifice a few stats (mostly stamina from ring, bow and cloak, but a little strength and armor too).

I can now get my shadow resistance over 120. But... I"m not the one that needs it. However I can say that it does make a very large difference in the amount of damage taken by the aura. I've been watching for a codex of shadow protection that isn't astronomical in price to no avail (made one bit at 72g which didn't last long). Having that book would _really_ help -- there is a lot of shadow damage, and being able to inner focus off the buff and keep going would be very nice.

You have to aggro the Baron before the timer runs out, but if you die, he will execute her (unless the timer isn't done yet).  It's basically, if you have his attention, he can't execute her, but if you don't, he will.
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Ok that is good to know. I imagine then the best use for a soulstone is to give a second life to a healer or tank, since a wipe is game over.

Well it's interesting -- we could actually field two different teams wanting to try this out if people want to. I know Xarhud would like to try, although he'd also like to kill the shadowcasters to get his bracers. We have two warriors, two mages (is Mistique ready for that quest?), two priests. I believe that Vamp Embrace could be a HUGE help -- as long as everything but the FF target is CC'd it is nearly all you need for healing. This is of course if swirly is interested in doing it with his warrior first rather than the hunter.

One thought -- pair up the warlock and the shadow priest. VE is free mana for the warlock. The warlock's goal should be to never be full on life ;) He'd be free to keep up the succubus for extra damage or the imp for stamina, rather than sacrificing the felhunter for mana regeneration.


If we were to design two teams (not sure if we do at first, might be better off stacking one team according to a chosen strategy)...

Have a shaman for whatever group doesn't have the shadow priest. One or the other makes the aboms trivial.

Put a mage in each for the skeletons on the baron. Put a warrior in each (obviously). Split the priests too, if for no other reason than the shadow buff. Let's see off the top of my head for a CC/FF approach:

Necrali
Swirlywar
Yuri
Marn
Mogo

Fazuul
Conc
Mistique
Octord
Xarhud

we still have people left over though... Nashkara (where's he at in quests? I know he won't go to strat dead otherwise), Keshoga (is she ready for the quest?), possibly Wimpy, Rogoll for a while and he missed out last week...

Well if swirlywar is interested, we could have the warriors pick teams. Draft picks, trades... you know :P

[VoiceMan]

we still have people left over though... Nashkara (where's he at in quests?  I know he won't go to strat dead otherwise), Keshoga (is she ready for the quest?), possibly Wimpy, Rogoll for a while and he missed out last week...

Well if swirlywar is interested, we could have the warriors pick teams.  Draft picks, trades... you know  :P
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Yep, this brings up the question again of how many from Lost Souls we can expect to see. ;)

[Concillian]

  We have two warriors, two mages (is Mistique ready for that quest?), two priests.

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Mistique still needs bracers I believe, which are a somewhat rare drop in LBRS. Since Valor belt also drops in LBRS from those orcs in the alley, maybe it makes sense to try these specific mobs in LBRS a few times if we have a chance during the week.

I can leave Lianne there for easy summons, You could leave Durambar there for helping, we'd just need one more to pull Octord and then we could get everyone else there for multiple resets/attempts without having to run the whole instance... as I recall it's pretty easy to jump down to that area, right? But getting out would have to be via portal, and travel back to there takes a while. Shaman has 5 hearths an hour that could be set to Kargath, but everyone else would have to do a lot of flying on a reset.

[Concillian]

I can now get my shadow resistance over 120.  But... I"m not the one that needs it.  However I can say that it does make a very large difference in the amount of damage taken by the aura.  [right][snapback]106829[/snapback][/right]

It's not just the aura, I was watching my combat log last time, and he regularly instant casts shadowbolts that do well over 500 damage each, maybe as much as a thousand.

[Klaus]

Mistique still needs bracers I believe, which are a somewhat rare drop in LBRS.  Since Valor belt also drops in LBRS from those orcs in the alley, maybe it makes sense to try these specific mobs in LBRS a few times if we have a chance during the week.

I can leave Lianne there for easy summons, You could leave Durambar there for helping, we'd just need one more to pull Octord and then we could get everyone else there for multiple resets/attempts without having to run the whole instance... as I recall it's pretty easy to jump down to that area, right?  But getting out would have to be via portal, and travel back to there takes a while.  Shaman has 5 hearths an hour that could be set to Kargath, but everyone else would have to do a lot of flying on a reset.
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You could leave Lianne and two other alts (Voice's hunter and either Durambar or Necrali, whichever one we're not taking with, for example) nearby, and use them to summon people back after a portal.

I've got the Hands of Power (from Quartermaster Zigris) and the Skyshroud Leggings (from Omokk) on my wishlist, so if either of those is accessible in the process, I'd like to kill them. If they aren't, no big deal. Also, since I need my bracers, perhaps we could do a strat dead run sometime during the week to kill all the shadowcasters and necromancers (or a live run to kill the various scarlets that drop them and try for the gloves, but that's a longer proposition).

[swirly]

My preferences:

Swirlytracks: 45 min baron, ubrs, scholo, dm north
Swirlywar: lbrs, brd, anything else

Also it should be noted that I recently respeced both my characters back to their original builds. Swirlywar is now back to a protection warrior and Swirlytracks is now back to a BM hunter. I switched my hunter back because I was getting tired of my pet losing aggro on FF targets that he was supposed to tank. It seemes to me that the utility of having a pet that can hold aggro is more important than the added dps that a MM build gave. It also makes me feel more comfortable with the character. : ) The warrior was switched back because she will probably be called on to main tank more than she was and so it makes sense to me to be protection speced for that. Its also what I grew up with and so I'm more comfortable with it as well.

By friday both of my characters should be up to the 45 minute baron run. I'd feel better about taking the hunter though. 1 reason is that she has her shoulders, boots, and pants thus is capable of going further in the chain than my warrior would be. The other reason is just that I've played my hunter more and so feel more confident playing her at the speed the run will require. I think it would be better to try it with my warrior after I've attempted it a few times with my hunter so that I know more about it. I've not been on any practice speed runs as of yet so the hunter seems like the better option in my mind. I don't mind giving it a shot with the warrior, I just feel its more risky. : )

It occurs to me that if I take my hunter then we end up with all our tanking characters in one instance...conc, myself, and fazuul. What we might want to do is have me not go to the 45 minute baron run, but instead take my warrior to lbrs. There are alot of people who need warlords command (including my warrior) and my warrior wants to kill a boss in there for her axe smithing quest as well. We might get lucky and get conc's valor belt to drop in either place. This allows us to field a 45 min baron run and a lbrs run. If conc, myself, and fazuul all go to the same place then I'm unsure if we could field a second run because of lack of tanks. We could have conc tank lbrs and I tank baron, but, as I said, I feel more confident about the run with conc tanking it.

Another thing to consider is an early attempt at a 45 minute baron run. I know I often log in hours before our scheduled start time. I would probably have to bring my warrior to it because conc is a late arrival, but if we could field 5 then we could get in some good practice time before the majority of people arrive.

[swirly]

Something I meant to say in my last post, but forgot. If people want a chance at drops from shadowcasters or any other mobs that are skipped in the 45 minute baron run, we could run back to those mobs after the baron kill. They should still be there and its likely that only the gargoyle patrols would have respawned by then. So it shouldn't be too much trouble to go get some attempts at those mobs after the baron is dead.

[Concillian]

I didn't mention it, but I would be interested in the 45 minute run regardless of whether I get my belt so it's worth quest credit. I think it's one of the more interesting challenges presented in the recent future, and the practice will be good either way.

The only other places that hold loot for Conc are Scholo, BRD, and DM North.

[Klaus]

I didn't mention it, but I would be interested in the 45 minute run regardless of whether I get my belt so it's worth quest credit.  I think it's one of the more interesting challenges presented in the recent future, and the practice will be good either way.

The only other places that hold loot for Conc are Scholo, BRD, and DM North.
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I agree that it sounds challenging and fun, so I'd enjoy trying it, even though it won't be for credit for me, either. I guess I should have mentioned that before, too.

[WimpySmurf]

Necrali
Swirlywar
Yuri
Marn
Mogo

Fazuul
Conc
Mistique
Octord
Xarhud

we still have people left over though... Nashkara (where's he at in quests?  I know he won't go to strat dead otherwise), Keshoga (is she ready for the quest?), possibly Wimpy, Rogoll for a while and he missed out last week...

Well if swirlywar is interested, we could have the warriors pick teams.  Draft picks, trades... you know  :P
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As usual Wimpy won't know whether he'll be there till Friday. He'll be 58 by Friday, possibly 59.

I've only got the Bracers of Valor and can't start the quests yet (too young :angry: ).

[Concillian]

He'll be 58 by Friday, possibly 59. 
I've only got the Bracers of Valor and can't start the quests yet (too young  :angry: ).
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I thought 58 was old enough from what I've read. Last you checked the quest-giver, you were 57, right? I think 58 can start.

[vor_lord]

It occurs to me that if I take my hunter then we end up with all our tanking characters in one instance...conc, myself, and fazuul.  What we might want to do is have me not go to the 45 minute baron run, but instead take my warrior to lbrs. 
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This is a good idea. I know Xarhud and Keshoga are in need of Warlord's Command.

If we went with that idea, then considering who is ready to go that leaves basically my first group:

Yuri
Octord
Fazuul
Conc
Necrali

But this is also GG's last week so I say that has to have some input also.

I imagine the Lost Souls will be going for UBRS again if they can get inside. Guess we'll have to see.

One thing for me personally -- I'd prefer to do my 45 minute baron runs with the Lurkers (well at least until I've done it).

[vor_lord]

It's not just the aura, I was watching my combat log last time, and he regularly instant casts shadowbolts that do well over 500 damage each, maybe as much as a thousand.
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Oh I didn't know that. All the more important to get a little stock of shadow protection potions for this.

Perhaps some of our dreamfoil stocks could be converted into more major mana pots too. I know we need the dreamfoil later but that is quite a bit later and we do have quite a few herbalists to collect it at that time.

[Sir_Die_alot]

I got to this quest step a week ago or so. I've done a couple attempts with different groups and the best so far was a mage warrior druid priest warlock. Half the group stunk (most painfully the warrior who had only just speced defensive and had little idea how to pull or use shield based abilities) but we still were only 8 minutes shy or so of doing it. Basicly the priest healed most of it, I threw out whatever looked lacking: moonfire, hurricane, and heals of my own. I also innervated the priest so he had essentially zero downtime.

I've heard from people that the way to get it done easiest is 2 mages to really DPS the hell out of the place.

As for ice block, I think it breaks any negative effect. On my TN guild this is actually the running joke because we have a mage that his "eep" reaction is to iceblock, which he does a LOT. :lol:

Edit: I should also point out the hardest part of this time wise is the abomination pulls. This is a huge time waster and I've heard things like doing 2 at a time to speed it up.

[Concillian]

Oh I didn't know that.  All the more important to get a little stock of shadow protection potions for this.

Perhaps some of our dreamfoil stocks could be converted into more major mana pots too.  I know we need the dreamfoil later but that is quite a bit later and we do have quite a few herbalists to collect it at that time.
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I've been parking Concillian in a spot of Azshara that has several Dreamfoil and silversage nodes and just occasionally logging in on him to ride around and check the spots. I've managed to accumulate about 140 dreamfoil I know you have some too, so I think we have enough to spare for some mana pots if we need them.

The other thing we can do for consumables is to collect soulstones with Lianne to pass out 1/2 healthstones. Octord makes 0/2 healthstones so both can be carried and used with little worry about cost.

[Alram]

Rogoll needs the shoulders and the chest piece. The shoulders are available in Strat and the chestpiece in UBRS. I would like a shot at these. Rogoll can also help with a 45 minute run, though it sounds like there are plenty available for that. Magead can go anywhere; I doubt that his gear is good enough for a 45 minute Baron run.

It seems to me we had enough on last week for a ZG run. If the same is true this week then that would get my number one vote. I'd stay up late for that.

Last week my group started an hour late; please be on time or let us know ahead of time if you won't be on time.