Gimme some input on my computer choice

[DeeBye]

I'm going to be buying a new computer for myself in the next few days as a birthday present. I'm going to be buying a pre-built from my favourite local mom 'n pop store because I was searching various Canadian retailers and can't save myself any money by building it myself. In fact, it would be at least $100 more if I tried that.

Anyways, here's what they will build for me.

CPU
I want to go with an AMD Athlon64 processor. I'm not quite sure which speed I will be deciding on, but here's what the price breakdown will be:
3000+, add $0
3200+, add $40
3500+, add $100
3700+, add $110
3800+, add $200

Motherboard
MSI K8N Neo4 nForce4

Memory
OCZ Premier 1GB DDR 400 dual channel kit

Case/PSU
Antec SLK1650B w/ 350W PSU

Storage
WD 200GB 7200rpm w/8MB Cache SATA II

Floppy Drive (even though I have never used one in at least 5 years)
Sony 1.44MB FDD

Optical drive
LG GSA-H10A 16X Dual Layer DVD Burner

Video card
Sapphire Radeon X550 256MB PCI-E

Onboard 7.1 sound
Onboard NIC
Logitech Internet Keyboard
Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse
Logitech X-530.1 Speakers

I know that the Radeon X550 is kinda lightweight for this system, but my shop's current lineup doesn't include anything beefier for this configuration. I don't do much heavy 3D gaming right now, but if the X550 performs at least as well as my current Radeon 9600XT 256M AGP I'll be satisfied for now until I get a deal on something nicer.

Does anyone have any issue with the quality of the parts, other than the video card?

I'll probably just go with an Athlon64 3000+, unless someone can give me a very convincing reason to upgrade it. For point of reference, I'm still happily using an Athlon 1700+ :)

[jahcs]

I would lean towards a dual core AMD CPU and try for a video card that supports shader model 3.0.

I realize budget concerns and your video card availability are impacting choices. I'm just concerned with value of your dollar over the long term.

Software is taking more and more advantage of dual core processing. With AMD you already have the 64 bit covered, dual core is the next step. If you do video encoding dual core speeds the process way up and certain games, applications, and Windows Vista will be able to take advantage of multi-core systems.

[DeeBye]

If I'm reading it right, the motherboard supports dual-core CPUs. I just checked with my local shop, and they don't yet offer any pre-builts with dual-core CPUs. Besides, even if they did I'm looking at about a $200 price increase if I went with dual-core. I can hardly justify that with my budget in mind. I suppose it's something I can upgrade to down the road when dual-cores get a bit cheaper.

The video card is my only real concern, as I just noticed that Sapphire doesn't seem to make a 256MB X550 PCI-E. It looks like the only configurations are 64MB or 128MB. I'm sure it's not something shady on my shop's part, but I'll have to ask them about this discrepancy. If worse comes to worst I'll just ask if I can upgrade that part to a X600Pro (which does come in a 256MB flavour). The difference in price will only be about $25, assuming they will do that with a pre-built system.

[Xukuth]

Will your mom-and-pop store allow you to purchase a computer without certain components (or install components you've purchased) for a lower cost? The 7600 GT XXX graphics card from XFX is pretty much the best bang for your buck at the moment - $200 for a card that outperforms every other card about that price. I got one and have no problems playing Oblivion with all in-game settings maxed, for example.

[DeeBye]

Will your mom-and-pop store allow you to purchase a computer without certain components (or install components you've purchased) for a lower cost? The grap7600 GT XXX card from XFX is pretty much the best bang for your buck at the moment - $200 for a card that outperforms every other card about that price. I got one and have no problems playing Oblivion with all in-game settings maxed, for example.
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I should mention that Newegg is not an option for me.

[jahcs]

One good thing about your motherboard being socket 939 - it would be relatively painless to upgrade to a dual core CPU at a later date.

Where's a thumbs up smilie when you need it :P

[Xukuth]

I should mention that Newegg is not an option for me.
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What about ZipZoomFly?

If you can't use ZipZoomFly as well because of shipping issues, you might be able to try TigerDirect.

[kandrathe]

I've had bad luck with Sapphire. I lost 3 Sapphire 9800 Pro's on different machines.

[DeeBye]

What about ZipZoomFly?

If you can't use ZipZoomFly as well because of shipping issues, you might be able to try TigerDirect.
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The problem is that I live in Canada and shipping + duty charges from the US would make that card about $300, which is close to half of my entire current budget.

[Drasca]

I would SERIOUSLY wait until July for a new computer. There's going to be a drastic drop in CPU prices for higher quality chips from both Intel and AMD. Please consider putting the money off a few months, as you'll get much higher quality stuff for far lower prices pretty darn soon.

As for parts now, the PSU seems drastically underpowered. A solid PSU is the heart of your system. Underpowered PSU's can and will damage the rest. Don't skimp on this bit. Consider 400W as you rminimum, 450W being reasonable, and 500W safe.. Also make sure to get Dual 12V rails.

Use this PSU calculator as a guide to what you'll need.

Current CPU's: Do you do any video encoding? Not a whole lot of games take advantage of Dual-core specific abilities. Oblivion is one of them, so if you do plan on getting that, it might be an option. Otherwise single core is probably better for you.

You might want to look at anandtech's article on some recent CPUs relative power.


Current RAM: Get a 2Gb kit (2x 1GB sticks) You won't regret it.

[Roland]

Drasca covered it all. :P

[gekko]

What about ZipZoomFly?

If you can't use ZipZoomFly as well because of shipping issues, you might be able to try TigerDirect.
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I'm also from Canada. I just ordered a case/power supply combo from tigerdirect.ca (hated to pay shipping on a case, but it was a clearence deal and I just had to!), and I've also ordered parts from NCIX.com. The shipping costs usually still leave stuff far below local costs. But if you've got a local place you want to support, good for you.

gekko

[Zippyy]

I've had bad luck with Sapphire.  I lost 3 Sapphire 9800 Pro's on different machines.
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To balance that, the last three ATI cards I've owned have been Sapphire, and I've had no problems whatsoever. Sapphire is a longstanding ATI manufacturer and has a good reputation.

[DeeBye]

I suppose I should clarify why I feel the need to buy a new system right now, and what my intentions are.

Like I said before, I'm currently using an Athlon XP 1700+/512MB RAM/9600XT AGP computer. It works well enough for what I use it for, but I realise that there is almost zero upgrade room for me. That's okay by me, because other than Oblivion there aren't too many current games I wish to play. I can run Guild Wars, Empire at War, and Bloodlines decently enough.

I'm in a position now that I want to have a second computer networked in my home (so that my son and/or my wife can use it while I'm busy ignoring them while playing Diablo 2 searching for phat lewt). I'd like to relegate my old system to this task, and buy something new. I'm not looking to upgrade just to be able to play the latest games (though that would be a bonus), but I'd like something that CAN be upgraded over time. I'd like something with versatility. The socket 939 and PCI-E motherboard should allow me to do this.

I'd also like a main computer with a little more "zip" for everyday tasks, as stupid as that sounds. I currently have (by today's standards) a slow processor, slow RAM, and a slow HDD.

I would SERIOUSLY wait until July for a new computer. There's going to be a drastic drop in CPU prices for higher quality chips from both Intel and AMD. Please consider putting the money off a few months, as you'll get much higher quality stuff for far lower prices pretty darn soon.[right][snapback]106561[/snapback][/right]

But my birthday is in April and not in July :(

No, I'm pretty set on getting something new right now.

As for parts now, the PSU seems drastically underpowered. A solid PSU is the heart of your system. Underpowered PSU's can and will damage the rest. Don't skimp on this bit. Consider 400W as you rminimum, 450W being reasonable, and 500W safe.. Also make sure to get Dual 12V rails.

Use this PSU calculator as a guide to what you'll need.[right][snapback]106561[/snapback][/right]

I'll never be running more than a single optical drive, a single HDD, and a single video card. 350W should be plenty for that. I've always been under the assumption that Antec PSUs were excellent and performed way better than their wattage figures suggest when compared to cheap no-name PSUs.

Current CPU's: Do you do any video encoding? Not a whole lot of games take advantage of Dual-core specific abilities. Oblivion is one of them, so if you do plan on getting that, it might be an option. Otherwise single core is probably better for you.[right][snapback]106561[/snapback][/right]

Almost none at all. Video encoding isn't an issue. Dual-core is definitely out of my price range, though it's an option for the future.

You might want to look at anandtech's article on some recent CPUs relative power.[right][snapback]106561[/snapback][/right]

Sweet, thanks for the link.

Current RAM: Get a 2Gb kit (2x 1GB sticks) You won't regret it.
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The motherboard I plan to get can handle up to 4GB RAM, so that's definitely an upgrade route.

[DeeBye]

I'm also from Canada.  I just ordered a case/power supply combo from tigerdirect.ca (hated to pay shipping on a case, but it was a clearence deal and I just had to!), and I've also ordered parts from NCIX.com.  The shipping costs usually still leave stuff far below local costs.  But if you've got a local place you want to support, good for you.
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My local place is awesome in that it's local and 99% of their stuff is cheaper than the online Canadian retailers.

Just as an example, NCIX has an Athlon 64 3200+ Retail for $210.38 and my local shop is selling the same one for $188.99. A BFG GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB PCI-E from NCIX is $204.06, whereas my local shop sells them for $204.99.

I'm gonna stick with my local shop for the prices and the convenience :)

[Thecla]

I'll never be running more than a single optical drive, a single HDD, and a single video card. 350W should be plenty for that. I've always been under the assumption that Antec PSUs were excellent and performed way better than their wattage figures suggest when compared to cheap no-name PSUs.
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I'm no expert on any of this, but just as a word of warning, I recently upgraded the video card on my system from a (fried) ATI 9800 PRO to a newly released GeForce 7800GS (I didn't want to switch to a whole new system with a PCIe mobo/cpu etc) with very good results. The minimum power requirement on the 7800GS is 350W, and as video cards go, it's not that power-hungry. I read of many, many problems from people with minimum power supplies (maybe not Antec's --- I don't know), and was very glad my power supply was 450W. I had zero problems with the upgrade.

Anyway, unless you plan to stick with exactly what you get now (and maybe you do), I don't think 350W a power supply is enough.

[Drasca]

Just as an example, NCIX has an Athlon 64 3200+ Retail for $210.38 and my local shop is selling the same one for $188.99. A BFG GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB PCI-E from NCIX is $204.06, whereas my local shop sells them for $204.99.

Actually, you should be able to get a low end (but still powerful) dual core CPU for the same price as single core. This is page one of the computer article I gave you. That's the relative prices for us right now, and the performance is comparable, but dual core is does a lot better with programs that can utilize it.

I'm no expert on any of this, but just as a word of warning, I recently upgraded the video card on my system from a (fried) ATI 9800 PRO to a newly released GeForce 7800GS

I don't think 350W a power supply is enough.
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The Nvidia 7000 series uses a lot less power, and produces less heat, than the 6000 series, and far less than the comparable ATI's. Technically, Deebye would be able to run a 7600GT, but he'd be at his limit. However, he definitely wouldn't be able to run a more powerful ATI, because they're still using more more power / more heat designs.

Right now though, the 6800GS's seem to be the best for for mid range performance/price. They're basically all the power of 6800GT, but costs less. Plus, they're SM 3.0 native, unlike their ATI counterparts (I think). I suggest inquiring what your local store charges for a 6800GS.

However, Deebye MUST make sure there's a minimum of 17-18 Amps on the 12V line, and that there's Two (dual) 12V rails. I wouldn't trust a PSU with just one 12V rail at that low overall wattage. 350W is extreme low end. There's just no avoiding looking into a good PSU.

[DeeBye]

Right now though, the 6800GS's seem to be the best for for mid range performance/price. They're basically all the power of 6800GT, but costs less. Plus, they're SM 3.0 native, unlike their ATI counterparts (I think). I suggest inquiring what your local store charges for a 6800GS.
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It looks like my store doesn't sell 6800GS's as of yet. I've decided just to stick with the inexpensive x550 for now and upgrade when I see a good deal on something. As I've said before, I'm not a really heavy 3D gamer and I prefer to upgrade bit-by-bit.

However, Deebye MUST make sure there's a minimum of 17-18 Amps on the 12V line, and that there's Two (dual) 12V rails. I wouldn't trust a PSU with just one 12V rail at that low overall wattage. 350W is extreme low end. There's just no avoiding looking into a good PSU.
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Here's the detailed specs on Antec's SP 350W PSU. If the PSU doesn't hold up, then it's a good thing I'm buying a pre-built computer locally. The warantee will put my mind at ease, and it looks like decent 500W PSUs are cheap enough that if it blows in a year I won't be too upset.

Anyhow, I ordered the system today and will be picking it up on Tuesday.

[gekko]

I'm no expert on any of this, but just as a word of warning, I recently upgraded the video card on my system from a (fried) ATI 9800 PRO to a newly released GeForce 7800GS (I didn't want to switch to a whole new system with a PCIe mobo/cpu etc)  with very good results. The minimum power requirement on the 7800GS is 350W, and as video cards go, it's not that power-hungry. I read of many, many problems from people with minimum power supplies (maybe not Antec's --- I don't know), and was very glad my power supply was 450W. I had zero problems with the upgrade.

Anyway, unless you plan to stick with exactly what you get now (and maybe you do), I don't think 350W a power supply is enough.
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I remember reading somewhere or other that the current on the 12 V rail(s) was far more important than total wattage for the majority of typical users - since all the "heavy" stuff (video card, CPU, etc) utilize the 12 V rail, the others are far less important.

I just recently got a case and PS, and the PS is only a 350 watt. But between the two 12 V rails, it has almost 25 A, which appears to be much more than I need. But then, this computer will never see more than two hard drives and a mid range CPU.

gekko

[Roland]

If the PSU doesn't hold up, then it's a good thing I'm buying a pre-built computer locally.  The warantee will put my mind at ease, and it looks like decent 500W PSUs are cheap enough that if it blows in a year I won't be too upset.

Only one problem: if it does blow, it could take the rest of your computer with it. Electrical baclash from the blow PSU can affect any of the components in your computer, most notably being the motherboard. I haven't had it happen to be (and I've only had 1 blown PSU, so I've been doubly lucky), but I have heard of it happening, and not rarely.

You might want to be a bit more picky, Deebye. It WILL pay off. Believe us when we say this: of ALL the components in a computer, a cheap PSU is the one thing you DO NOT want. Everything else just gets outdated or outperformed. A cheap PSU can cost you your whole system, be it all at once, or slowly over time (due to inadeqaute and/or "dirty" power). Don't skimp on this one. $100 for a solid PSU is a much better price than $1,000 for a whole new computer.

As for that warranty, make sure it covers damage to all other components in the computer. Something tells me, it won't.