Ret loses Spiritual Attunement. Opinions?

[Taelas]

I'm not sure I would say that it isn't optimal. The thing about the 969 rotation is it setups so that every single CD is used optimally for threat generation/damage mitigation. The problem that comes about is that there isn't a whole lot of things in that rotation that you can drop to keep your threat up or your mitigation up. Dropping or delaying HS to me is big no-no, it builds threat and gives you more mitigation. Judgement is damage and gets you either health or mana back. SoR and HoR are your big threat moves. Consecrate gives you a good amount of TPS due to it sitting under the boss in question (for 8 to 10 seconds depending on glyph). While Exorcism may give you more threat than HS, Exorcims lowers your mitigation, it's not going to equal the threat of Judgement, HoR, or SoR, and Consecrate may be the only good choice to it to be put in due to the mana cost of Consecrate.

I think you misunderstood me (which is not that surprising, as I wasn't being clear). I meant you could adhere strictly to the 969 rotation regardless of the actual current cooldown of your abilities. Normally, this isn't a problem, as it's a cooldown rotation -- but if you delay any ability because you want to use Exorcism, then in the rotation following said delay, you can have two abilities coming off CD simultaneously. If, in said situation, you adhere strictly to 969, you're ignoring the fact that they aren't on CD.

More as a point, if you (general you that is) have two things coming off cooldown at same time with 969, you're doing something wrong. As you've (specific) said, it's a cooldown rotation, but if two things are coming up, you (general again =p) either hit two of the same cooldown length items back to back (either two 6s or two 9s) or you're mashing buttons.

If you delay abilities rather than replace them, it'll happen. I'm arguing against doing so; I doubt it is enough of an increase that it'll be a good choice in most situations. (Though with the auto-crit, it might be better than Consecration on Demon/Undead bosses... need to assess that.)

Even though the original author quoted by Mord states Exorcism is a DPS boost, I only see it being of use where you're either off tanking to maintain threat for somekind of aggro drop for the MT (like Archavon) and times where you can skip HS cause you're not taking direct hits.

Agreed -- though, again, Consecration vs. Exorcism on Demon/Undead mobs are interesting. Consecration can't crit, and Exorcism will always crit on them.


As for Judgement, you can afford to drop it once every 20 seconds. The CD is normally 9 seconds, that means you can drop every other Judgement with no "ill effects", unless for some reason you're unable to recast it. Judgement's duration is 20 seconds.

[shoju]

Ok. So we have the build where they are changing things, buffing things, etc.....


Judgements of the Wise is now 25% of your mana, Up 10% from 15


WOW. This is huge. 1/4 of your base mana back? I could be wrong, but if you're gearing in Tier pieces, and maybe an odd piece of mail here and there You will be getting huge returns on this. Needed? Yes. I like this change, it's a little odd that they actually went with it.


Glyph of Seal of Blood:

When your Seal of Blood, Seal of the Martyr, Judgement of Blood, or Judgement of the Martyr deals damage to you, you gain 11% of the damage done as mana. (Old - Glyph of Seal of Blood -- Your Seal of Blood or Seal of the Martyr increases the mana received from Spiritual Attunement by 10% while active.)

Ok, so when I deal damage, I take damage, and then I take the damage that I dealt and I get mana back from that? It seems odd. It's a constant and steady mana return, though I feel that this is Kind of a band-aid. This is mainly because I really HATE glyphs. I now have to choose which glyph that is currently deemed 'mandatory' is not so mandatory anymore so that I can use this... /yawn I was afraid that Glyphs would become the First Aid kit of game.

I like the idea, I just wish it wasn't in glyph form.

I'm curious to see how the changes will make ulduar for us, and how our mana and healing needs are now.

[Mordekhuul]

The EJ ret paladin thread has done some analysis and PTR testing on the new build, and things look very good.

Keeping in mind that our new rotation in 3.1 will include exorcism (along with Judge/CS/DS/Cons, as usual), we were looking to be out of mana within a minute or two before the latest build.

With a full rotation including all 5 abilities, and assuming divine plea every minute, we now look to stay mana neutral for a long time, and if you take a minor DPS hit to fit in the new SoB glyph, we are mana positive.

[shoju]

The EJ ret paladin thread has done some analysis and PTR testing on the new build, and things look very good.

Keeping in mind that our new rotation in 3.1 will include exorcism (along with Judge/CS/DS/Cons, as usual), we were looking to be out of mana within a minute or two before the latest build.

With a full rotation including all 5 abilities, and assuming divine plea every minute, we now look to stay mana neutral for a long time, and if you take a minor DPS hit to fit in the new SoB glyph, we are mana positive.

Yeah, I'm very happy about the changes over all. I'm just not super excited about the glyph.... My main gripe is that Glyphs feel like a band aid for things that should be just 'fixed'.

Assuming Glyph of Judgement, Consecrate, and Avenging Wrath, which one would you cut? My first thought is to Cut Avenging Wrath, but I don't know how much that will dig into the dps...

[WimpySmurf]

Yeah, I'm very happy about the changes over all. I'm just not super excited about the glyph.... My main gripe is that Glyphs feel like a band aid for things that should be just 'fixed'.

Assuming Glyph of Judgement, Consecrate, and Avenging Wrath, which one would you cut? My first thought is to Cut Avenging Wrath, but I don't know how much that will dig into the dps...

Actually I believe the 3 DPS glyphs in 3.1 are Judgement, Consecration, Exorcism.

-WimpySmurf

[Mordekhuul]

Consecrate, I think. At least, the analysis seems to revolve around using either consecrate glyph or SoB glyph, not both.

The SoB glyph isn't needed on most fights, its looking like, so it might be the kind of thing you swap in here and there, during progression if a fight is particularly unfriendly to keeping mana up, but something you don't need strongly.

It is also the kind of glyph you can decide to use or not based on whether you want excess mana for things like AoW procs and hand spells/bubble to be readily available.

Blizzard doesn't intend the glyph to be mandatory, and they have even commented on it on the forums already. They also dont' intend for glyphs to be useless, however, or everyone would just complain that glyphs dont' make any difference;)

[Mordekhuul]

Actually I believe the 3 DPS glyphs in 3.1 are Judgement, Consecration, Exorcism.

-WimpySmurf

I bet you are right. I forgot about the new exorcism glyph.

AW for PVP though, for sure =)

[shoju]

Oh bugger they did change the glyph of Exorcism didn't they.

Yeah, then I will probably go with that. I was under the impression that it was still going to be an interupt and a pvp glyph.


I understand why they make glyphs the way they do, it's just irritating. I will probably not roll with the SoB glyph to start, and see how it works. (WHy can't they make one of these a minor?:))