StarGaming's Second Seasonal D2LOD LLD Tournament

[Starops]

StarGaming's Second Seasonal D2LOD LLD Tournament

For general information about the tournament please visit: http://www.stargaming.tk

For discussion about the tournament please visit:
http://24.85.204.218/stargaming/forums/vie...topic.php?t=307

We ask that you read the rules before you register, however here is the link to register for the tournament.
http://24.85.204.218/stargaming/forums/vie...topic.php?t=308

You will require a forum account in order to register for the tournament, you can get one here.
http://24.85.204.218/stargaming/forums/pro...p?mode=register


[[ prizes include ladder and non ladder items ]]
you can view the prizes here
http://24.85.204.218/stargaming/events/lld2/LLD2p.htm

[Tal]

Hi -

I have to wonder why you made this rule:

No "bugged/hacked" items may be used.

And yet you still feel its okay to give out items with dupes in it as prizes:

160/60 ias dusk shroud

Seems like a double standard to me. But thats just my two cents. :)

[Guest]

2. No "bugged/hacked" items may be used. (If the item could have been found at one time, then it is allowed)

160/60 = 40/15 x4 jewels

Just because something is hard to find doesn't have to mean it's a dupe.

[Tal]

Just because something can be found doesn't mean its not duped either. I would wager, with pretty high certainty of winning my bet, that not any of those jewels are legit. I'm not as up on the statistics of something happening but it has to be pretty high to get even one perfect 40/15 jewel, much less four of them for said armor.

Just my opinion mind you. :)

[Dozer]

Exactly... The odds for spawning one is something in the 47,000 : 1 range. FOR ONE... times four, and THEN I'm assuming that they are all the same color, wich adds even more obscurity!

[Ruvanal]

Exactly... The odds for spawning one is something in the 47,000 : 1 range. FOR ONE... times four, and THEN I'm assuming that they are all the same color, wich adds even more obscurity!

Ruby Jewel of Fevor; chance of one dropping from an ilvl 66+ source is 1/3451. Only 1 in 10 will be a perfect 40ed/15ias so those odds are then 1/34510. The are six color patterns to the Jewels, so the odds that the second jewel to have dropped perfect and with the same color as the first is 1/34510*1/6=1/207060. The third and fourth jewels would also have the 1/207060 odds of dropping that way.

It stretches the credibility does it not.

[Occhidiangela]

I'd say it draws and quarters it, but that' just cynical little me.

[Occhidiangela]

This spam, I mean, this advertisement.

Had you been a member here for a while, I suspect I'd not react thusly, but given your joining yesterday with the express purpose of advertising a tournament that supports the proliferation of duped items as prizes, I'd have to say You Don't Get It about the Lurker Lounge.

We play without cheats, which includes dupes. See Ruvanal's analysis about your prize offerings.

I have reported your post to the moderators, as it is unworthy of Lounge consideration.

On the other hand, for those who don't care as much about cheats as we do here, I do hope you have a great deal of fun with your tournament.

[Tal]

Hi -

I have to wonder why you made this rule:

No "bugged/hacked" items may be used.

And yet you still feel its okay to give out items with dupes in it as prizes:



Seems like a double standard to me. But thats just my two cents. :)

It appears that you have removed the 160/60 armor as a prize on your website but I think the damage has been done - at least for me. :)

[SwissMercenary]

The only way to LLD, is in hardcore.

I'll stick to collecting the ears of mentally-challenged paladins who think that, just because they have a big, bad maul, they are instantly "Teh l33t".

That is, if I would stop rebuilding my characters.

/Posts about pvp.

[Canadian_KM]

I am StarGaming, I was banned for making this topic by in my opinion what must be a trigger happy admin, however, I am looking to fix my mistake. ( I have also contacted the admins and they know I have made another account.)

I am also very confused why this topic still exists if I was banned for posting it...

First off I would like to say that in my opinion 160/60 is not at all a bugged or hacked item, I have a 147/60 armour, the jewellers full plate of the whale I bought from Larzuk, two of the 4 jewels in it I found and two I bought. Now, lets say the jewels in the160/60 are duped (and they most likely are) how does that make the item cheating? I did not dupe the jewels, and the armour is only a difference of 13%ed from a legit one. I also have a 160/60 armour, which I have had since may 2002, and all its jewels are different colours (I am almost positive it is not duped). I myself have found a 33/15 IAS jewel, a 40/15 green jewel (which I still have unused), and a 37/15 IAS jewel. [ I would also like to add I have never used a bot and I stopped using map hack around when the version that showed the monsters on it was released. (and no other third party programs of course) I have always been against white rings, hex charms, bugged string and all the other bugged//hacked items.]

My point is, there is the same chance that the jewels in that armour are duped as any high rune is duped, as I’m sure the odds to find a ZOD rune are very similar to those of finding a 40/15 IAS jewel.

Also, in the rules page it says no bugged//hacked items. I define bugged//hacked items as items that cannot naturally drop in the game, if it can drop then its legit. Now of course other people have different opinions, and this really cant be categorized by anything but opinion (as long as you are not the one doing the duping).

I would also like to point out that you did not include all of the information in your quote..

tal125 said:

QUOTE 

No "bugged/hacked" items may be used.

Well, on my website it says:
2. No "bugged/hacked" items may be used. (If the item could have been found at one time, then it is allowed)

Therefor it is obvious that I dont have a "double standard", as I clearly state that if the item could have been found at one time it is allowed...


Now, I have changed the prizes to legit items which should mirror the value of the previous 160/60, I have done this for THIS COMMUNITY (Lurker Lounge) every other place I have been to supported the 160/60 armour, I even had many people mention it specifically saying they wanted it.

Since I altered the event for you alone all I ask in return is a little respect and support. I made the mistake of not looking into your personal opinions towards this matter ahead of time; I am looking to correct that mistake.

I hope most of you can see that.

-Canadian_KM
Head admin of StarGaming.tk

[Ruvanal]

I did not dupe the jewels, and the armour is only a difference of 13%ed from a legit one.

I am not sure of the laws in other countries, but in the US the act of passing counterfiets is as much of a crime as the person that makes the counterfiets in the first place. Actually it is more the crime since I could photocopy a bill and not get in trouble so long as I did not try to pass it off to anybody. Trying to pass off that you did not 'make' the item makes you guiltless is the problem. If no one helped to propogate these dupes around the realms there would not be a problem of all the duping since there would not be a demand to create them in the first place.

This is a point to consider about the standards of this community. I suspect that tal125's opinion may actually be shared by quite a few of the established members around here. I am not sure that the immediate banning of your account in the first place (especially without touching the post; locking or deleting) was the best way to deal with this though.

[Griselda]

Hi,

If you were banned, I would like to think that you'd give the admins of the site time to respond to your concerns before making a second account and posting here. I am aware that you have asked about this issue via Private Message. That's an appropriate place to discuss such an issue. This thread isn't.

However, I'm not certain why it is that you believe your first account was banned. You'll note that in the post where you created the thread, the word "members" still appears under your name. I didn't see anything in the admin section of the forums that even suggests that the Starops account is banned. Maybe I'm missing something that another admin did, and I am trying to find out about it, but so far there really hasn't been time. In any case, let's keep that aspect of the conversation to private messages.

While many of the members of this site come and go, the position on dupes held by the community has not changed much over the years. The Lurker Lounge evolved out of the classic Diablo strategy community. In those days (at least by the time this site existed), you knew with 100% certainty that a person using a godly plate of the whale was a cheater, even if they did not dupe the item themselves. Now, obsidian rings of the zodiac did drop (very, very rarely). During my time playing Diablo, I saw one drop, but only one. So, it was possible to have one legitimate obs/zod, although not likely. There's very few people that I would have trusted if they'd claimed to have two legit obs/zods, and since none of them did, I didn't trust anyone. Three obs/zods and you knew they were too clueless to have found the legitimately, since they couldn't use all those resists anyway.

So, the belief among the legitimate community at that time was that if it was too good to be true, it probably was. Anything not known to be legit was assumed to be a dupe, and NOT USED. With the release of Diablo II and the "secure" realms, trading became much more popular, and the item "economy" was born. A lot of people who did not dupe or bot themselves turned a blind eye to cheating, since they had no way to tell what was legit, and, after all, they were trading legitimate items for the items received.

It is my opinion, and thankfully that of many here at the Lurker Lounge, that turning a blind eye to this sort of stuff just because the items *might* not be duped ends up supporting duping in the long run. If the botters and dupers couldn't get anything for their items, they wouldn't take the time to make them. I personally don't trade at all with people I don't know, and even then only for items I know they've found. Others don't go quite that far, but do draw the "too good to be true" line somewhere. Common sense tells us that many items are not likely to be legitimate, even if we wish they were. While that may not make more than a few percentage points difference to one's character in game, it does make a difference in that it's providing support to those who intentionally trade in duped items.

I'm not here to debate the merits of either point of view. Suffice it to say, you're not likely to change any minds here. I did want to provide you with some background about why people here are responding the way that they are. Hopefully it's given you (and others) a chance to think about the items that they are using, and whether they really "need" the 160/60. In any case, it's given you an opportunity to find out about who were are and our perspective on things. You can use that information to decide if this is a place where you feel comfortable or not.

One thing I will say is that I appreciate it that you've taken the time to stop back by and read the feedback posted to your thread. Most of the people who come here, create a membership, and immediately post an ad for something never return. So, messages such as yours, posted within minutes of creating an account, are viewed with skepticism at best. They're not necessarily against the rules, but it sure does head into the grey area of the "no spamming" rule. We don't really know you at this point, so it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you decide that you do want to stick around, and participate in other discussions, future ads probably wouldn't be received so poorly, as long as they were posted only occasionally, were related to the game, and didn't endorse cheating.

I visited your site, and I do have an unrelated comment. I noticed that you were using several of the STSI's in the screenshot section. Now, you do credit the Lurker Lounge, and you do host them on your site (so it's not draining bandwidth), but I am a bit uncomfortable about it for one reason. Most of our screenshots were not taken by Bolty or myself, but were submitted by other members of the community. As with the articles on our site, they give us permission to use the screenshots here, but the shots still belong to their respective "photographers." So, if you wanted to host a particular screenshot on your site, the best thing to do would be to contact the person who took the shot to get permission. Most of the authors can probably be reached through the "email" option of the forums here.

It looks like your site, or at least the Diablo II areas of it, are fairly new. I wish you well in that endeavor. :)

-Griselda

[Archon_Wing]

The only way to LLD, is in hardcore.

I'll stick to collecting the ears of mentally-challenged paladins who think that, just because they have a big, bad maul, they are instantly "Teh l33t".

That is, if I would stop rebuilding my characters.

/Posts about pvp.

People like you make the realms a better place. B)

[Canadian_KM]

First off, Grizelda I would like to say you are one of the most respect worthy people I have met online in a very long time. You are obviously have a very good idea of what’s going on around you and I greatly appreciate your input. About the prizes for my tournament, I have changed them, I do not used items like that... I just happened to have it sitting on a mule from when a friend of mine quit (as a matter of fact I haven't played non ladder since 1.10). I am willing to drop the subject completely.

As for weather of not I feel comfortable here, that I will discover with time, so far I feel at awe of how many intelligent people there are here, I have been going to this website for over a month now, but not until the last week have I viewed the forums. To me I really don’t mind what other's opinions are towards duping, if they don’t want to be my friend because I have used duped items in the past then that’s fine. Most of the time I am sure it wont come up as an issue, so I do plan on "sticking around".

I am a member of many forum communities, and I tend not to enter one unless there is a specific reason, this one being the tournament. If this is my first impression in this forum so be it, your opinions of me will change with time.

-----

About the screenshots, I am slightly torn. In my opinion the "photographer" does not have any more power over the screenshot than blizzard does, and I know for a fact that blizzard does not mind people hosting the screenshots on other websites. However I do believe it is only fair to give the specific person credit, so I will change the captions to include their names. I will also take out the screenshots that I can stage myself, and get around to re-entering my own later.

My website is very new, I started working on it in may 2003, but stopped in July due to many reasons I will not get into. All the members of the community gave up after three months of no updates. I was granted a little over a week of free time around November 28th and I figured with Christmas break coming up it would be a perfect time to start working on it again. I wrote the PHP for the site myself, so I did not get around to adding actual content until December 5th or so. That is how old the Diablo section is.

------

I would greatly appreciate any more comments or questions regarding the topics at hand.

-Canadian_KM

[Tal]

I would also like to point out that you did not include all of the information in your quote..

tal125 said:

No "bugged/hacked" items may be used.

Well, on my website it says:
2. No "bugged/hacked" items may be used. (If the item could have been found at one time, then it is allowed)

Therefor it is obvious that I dont have a "double standard", as I clearly state that if the item could have been found at one time it is allowed...

I questioned the fact that you were trying to foster a "legit" event and was offering an item that is anything but legit as a prize. I ignored the "If the item could have been found at one time, then it is allowed" statement for the simple reason that it has no bearing on the situation. You're turning a blind eye in my view to what is legit and what isn't by including that blanket statement and are opening yourself, and your tournament to possible problems. Because it ignores the simple fact that 40/15 jewels, 3/20/20 and 290 poison small charms are supposed to be rare and drop infrequently. You're asking for people to load up their inventories with these duped items and unlevel the playing field. If you need any further reason why I feel that the item is not legit feel free to examine what has already been posted and what Griselda stated so eloquently.

Regards,
Tal

[Canadian_KM]

You're turning a blind eye in my view to what is legit and what isn't

No I am not, I am simply saying that MY view is different than yours. and seing as this is a level 29 dueling game, 40/15 jewels, 290 small charms and 3-20-20 charms cant be used anyways. Do you know of any items that are mass duped which can be used lower than level 29. (rare rings of course but you can only wear two, and I doubt they would affect a fight nearly as much as you are pointing out with the jewels and charms.

-- I really wish to drop this topic, I have changed the prizes and I can agree to disagree, can't you?

[Caaroid]

Why of course! +12 max damage (lev req:9) and +9 max dam 15% enh dam (lev req:9) were mass duped. At least in Europe. Then again, we did not have wex charms, so it's all for the better I guess.

[Tal]

-- I really wish to drop this topic, I have changed the prizes and I can agree to disagree, can't you?

You addressed comments that I had made in your post, I replied to explain further my point of view of why I responded the way I had initially. My apologies if my questions regarding your definition of legit has caused you discomfort but you have put yourself on the public stage by advertising your event. If you can't handle questions about your definition of what is legit in regards to your tournament perhaps you shouldn't be advertising it publically. At any rate I've said my piece about my views of what is legit and shall, as you ask, drop the topic.

Regards,
Tal

[Occhidiangela]

My brain shorted out. Is LLD = Live and Let Die??