What are the differences between classic and LOD?

[LiquidDamage]

In Crystalion's post in the Workshop about forcing hindurares, he mentioned the idea of shopping for good rares in classic, and then converting to the expansion, where good rares are so hard to find (because of crap affixes like charges and chance to cast). This made me wonder: what exactly are the differences, for items only, between D2C 1.10 and LOD 1.10?

I'm not sure where to look for this information, is there just an "expansion" flag next to affixes in the mpq text files? Are there other differences, like how imbues work or cube recipes (do the old resistance ring cube recipes that used chipped gems work in d2c, for example)? Are the gambling percentages in D2C like they used to be, where you could realistically gamble the normal uniques and sets? Does Magic Find work the same as it does in LOD?

The goal here is to see what kinds of things are easier to get in D2C, or impossible to get in LOD. I happened to like the rare affix pool (particularly for resistances) and the rare/unique gambling percentages back from the pre-LOD days. I seem to recall tons of things changing in 1.07 for D2C, but I don't remember how much of it was item related.

[LiquidDamage]

Well, I'm looking in the MagicPrefix.txt and MagicSuffix.txt files, and it looks like there are three types of magic affixes, marked as 0, 1, and 100 in the "Version" column. 0 seems to be D2C, I haven't figured out what the differences between 1 and 100 are, but I am hoping that neither of them means "also shows up in classic" (it is probably what 1 means, though).

Interesting things to note:

1) Lots of worthless affixes are non existant in D2C, if I am right in assuming that only Version 0 affixes are used. Affixes like charges, chance to cast, bonus min or max damage on non weapon items, self repairing, bonuses to stamina, etc.

2) Some affix values in D2C Do not exist in LOD. When was the last time you saw 50% to a single resistance on an item? Yeah, that's right, you haven't seen that since D2C. It looks like they are still there in D2C, and they show up on rares.

3) Some affix values in D2C are not random-- all +resist all rings are 15% in D2C, which is the max in LOD. They also show up on rares, which is not different, but all my LOD prismatic rings are around 9-11% resist all, not 15%.

4) Some affix values have lower level reqs and show up earlier in D2C. For example, the of the Titans (+16 to 20 strength) suffix is req level 22 in D2C. That same suffix is req level 50 in LOD. Yeah, I am starting to remember (well, I still have it on a mule) some really good stuff I had for hardcore-- a pair of 28% MF, +29 life, +16% cold res, +19 dex gloves, a triple resist (46% lightning!), +19 str plated belt, a pair of triple resist boots, a triple resist skull cap, and one of those old-style prismatic amulets with random individual 15-25% values with an extra bit of lightning res, and 20ish life and mana. These things were all req level 18-22.

What does this mean? Well, for one, imbues on non-weapon items are worth a hell of a lot more in D2C than in LOD, though you cannot imbue items that don't exist-- like Circlets. You can't get Cruel in D2C, so weapons won't be as good, but if you want high, multiple resist rare armor, boots, belts, gloves, great helms, etc, then D2C is where to find them. Also, remember that you can use the upgrade formulas in LOD, so a fantastic triple resist sash with +strength, and life can be upgraded to have 4 rows when it is brought to LOD.

It also means really fantastic low level items, because some of the good damage and stat bonus affixes were lower level. if you want over 15% res all on a prismatic amulet in LOD, it will be level 31. Any 15-25% res all amulet from D2C will be req level 20.

I plan to play a D2C character tomorrow (well, later today) and see if all this seems to be true. Also, I will spend a good deal of money gambling, and see how many uniques I turn up.

Edit: It also occurred to me that with only 3 unique rings available, it will be a LOT easier to get a Stone of Jordan in D2C.

[Caaroid]

I don't know if anyone tried this, but do D2C Ladder 1.10 chars convert to LOD Ladder or LOD standard?

[shavenlunatic]

Standard - Otherwise that would allow things to be imported into the ladder and that defeats the object of it

[Caaroid]

That's what I thought... then the "get the Stone cheap" idea would not be that profitable... it is a lot easier to just trade for a Stone in LOD than try to find one in classic...

[LiquidDamage]

Standard - Otherwise that would allow things to be imported into the ladder and that defeats the object of it

What? Logic? This is Blizzard we are talking about here.

I just imported a level 2 hardcore D2C ladder character into the expansion, and it still shows him as a ladder character. He kept all of his items. I then made a game with him, and with my second computer, entered that game with one of my LOD ladder hardcore characters.

So, yes, D2C ladder characters become LOD ladder characters.

[Ruvanal]

For the magicprefix.txt and magicsuffix.txt files the version numbers are
0 = D2C legacy items from versions 1.00 to 1.06 (these will no longer spawn but are needed for characters that may still have some of these items).

1 = D2C and LoD currently generated items
100 = LoD items only

Also for note that the affixes must also have spawnable=1 and frequency>0 for the affix to be able to spawn. Once the pool of available affixes is filtered then the chance of one of the affixes being selected is based on the frequency/(total_frequencies) for items that have magic lvl=0 (blank) and on (frequency*level)/(total_modified_frequencies) for the items with magic lvl>0.

LiquidDamage the information that you presented is inncorrect as those affixes that you are basing your conclusions on are no longer being spawned in any of the current versions of the game.

Edit: It also occurred to me that with only 3 unique rings available, it will be a LOT easier to get a Stone of Jordan in D2C.

This also will not really be significantly easier in the D2C game than it is in the LoD game. When a base item is determined to be unique, the game will select the specific unique to generate based on
- the available uniques that can spawn at that ilvl
- the rarity number of that unique (similar to the affix frequency usage)

Unique Rings_________Item Level__rarity__total rarity
Nagelring____________10__________15______15
Manald Heal__________20__________15______30
The Stone of Jordan__39__________1_______31

If the selected unique is then picked to be generated for a second (or more) time then the item will instead end up being a generated as a rare with x3 durability if applicable. This means that at best only 1 in 31 chance of a ring that is being generated will end up as a SoJ in the D2C game.

For the LoD game

index_____________________lvl__ladder__rarity__total rarity
Nagelring_________________10___________15______15
Manald Heal_______________20___________15______30
The Stone of Jordan_______39___________1_______31
Dwarf Star________________53___________10______51
Raven Frost_______________53___________10______51
Bul Katho's Wedding Band__66___________1_______52
Carrion Wind______________68___________3_______55
Nature's Peace____________77___1_______3_______58
Wisp______________________84___________1_______59


You would then at high ilvls have two rings with +1 skills that would net a 2/59 chance of appearing compared to just the smaller chance of SoJ in D2C at 1/31. Not to mention the desirability of some of the other higher rings that can also spawn.

[Crystalion]

Once the pool of available affixes is filtered then the chance of one of the affixes being selected is based on the frequency/(total_frequencies) for items that have magic lvl=0 (blank) and on (frequency*level)/(total_modified_frequencies) for the items with magic lvl>0.

I am not understanding this "total_modified_frequencies" bit I fear.

My naive assumption about it would result in no mathematical difference between the two cases.

Could you explain please?

[adeyke]

If the item doesn't have a magic level, the chance of a given affix is the frequency over the sum of the frequencies.

If the item does have a magic level, the chance of a given affix is the (frequency * level) over the sum of the (frequency * level)s.

The level there is the alvl requirement for an affix spawning.

[Crystalion]

If the item doesn't have a magic level, the chance of a given affix is the frequency over the sum of the frequencies.

If the item does have a magic level, the chance of a given affix is the (frequency * level) over the sum of the (frequency * level)s.

The level there is the alvl requirement for an affix spawning.

Italics mine.

Yes, that explains my confusion. I assumed the "level" was some level that didn't vary by affix, like the magic_level, in which case the distribution would not be skewed.

What this means, which I did not know, is that base items with magic_level are biased toward the "better" (actually just higher alvl, so sometimes not) affixes.

Does the affix calculator (still only v1.09) properly take this into account, do you know?

I'm going to have to give this a little thought. Knowing this is helpful in looking at the distribution of affixes on a shadow's diadem, magic (warrior) or rare (higher slvl master).

[adeyke]

Does the affix calculator (still only v1.09) properly take this into account, do you know?

It does take it into account. Just compare the rarities of the affixes for an ilvl 99 wand (magic level 1) and an ilvl 99 polished wand (magic level 0). The high-level affixes are much more common on the former.

[LiquidDamage]

LiquidDamage the information that you presented is inncorrect as those affixes that you are basing your conclusions on are no longer being spawned in any of the current versions of the game.

Well darn. So it looks like the only benefits, affix wise, to play in D2C is that there are far less affixes available on rares, and so if what you want is a good pair of gloves, boots, rings (without prismatic, unfortunately), or a belt with resists, you are more likely to get them in D2C.

You know, imbuing white caster weapons might also be a good deal due to the increased chances of + to all skills.

That is good enough for me, as that is all I really wanted anyway. Well, I also wanted two stones of jordan for my trapper, but I'll settle for some good resist rings.

Thanks a ton, Ruvanal, for the info, I really appreciate it. It certainly saves me a lot of time looking for items that don't exist. ;)

Any word on if the gambling percentages are the same in both games?

[-Tempus-]

[QUOTE=Ruvanal,Jan 20 2004, 02:30 PM] LiquidDamage
Any word on if the gambling percentages are the same in both games?

they should be. i havent been playing my D2C goldfind barb much since i've been busy remaking some of my old chars. but d2c is still a great place to gamble for rares. the max greed is ~1000% (little less if you play ladder)

also since there are less junk mods the rares you do gamble should have more useful stats.

starting a char in d2c then moving them to lod has always been a great way to make hellforge / socket mules. thats because you dont need to mess with act5 and the ancients